Ask A Scientologist! [Archive]

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 02:04

quote:Originally posted by Q777:

May you direct me to your holy book so I may find error in it?

Scientology doesn't have a single "Divine Text" like other religions do. L. Ron Hubbard didn't make absurd claims about talking snakes and virgin births like the authors of other religious texts did. The teachings of Scientology (3,000 taped lectures, 15,000 pages of writing in various books) are simply the culmination of Hubbard's research, and can be obtained at any Scientology center.

I am disappointed in the fact that you have this preconceived notion that Scientology is false. I fully believe that all the teachings of Scientology are true, because I've applied the teachings myself and expereinced the benefits. If you are genuinely interested in exposing yourself to Scientology (and the associtated benefits) I'd recommend picking up a copy of Hubbard's Dianetics.

-DT-

Clarphimous

2006-05-29, 02:06

Hahahaha... not only did you just create that Totse account, but you also just created the Yahoo e-mail account displayed in your Totse profile.

http://profiles.yahoo.com/digitalthetan

Not like we would have ever guessed that.

So I'll start off with some simple questions.

Tell us, how do you know that Scientology is true and other religions aren't? Is there some sort of punishment for people who don't believe in your religion? And what the heck has happened to Tom Cruise?

Jaryohem063

2006-05-29, 02:10

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Scientology doesn't have a single "Divine Text" like other religions do. L. Ron Hubbard didn't make absurd claims about talking snakes and virgin births like the authors of other religious texts did. The teachings of Scientology (3,000 taped lectures, 15,000 pages of writing in various books) are simply the culmination of Hubbard's research, and can be obtained at any Scientology center.

I am disappointed in the fact that you have this preconceived notion that Scientology is false. I fully believe that all the teachings of Scientology are true, because I've applied the teachings myself and expereinced the benefits. If you are genuinely interested in exposing yourself to Scientology (and the associtated benefits) I'd recommend picking up a copy of Hubbard's Dianetics.

-DT-

There have been so many substantiated claims from former scientologists about incredibly odd beliefs and cult like practices such as ostracizing former members that it is quite surprising to me that there are people out there who don't assume that scientology is false.

Just for the sake of the continuity of the thread, I will post some questions.

What is up with Xenu?

Why is it that there are reports of scientology taking all of people's money?

Why do scientologists recruit celebrities?

Why won't Tom Cruise shut the fuck up?

cac0

2006-05-29, 02:13

I have a question. Do you think that scientology is any more believable than a science fiction novel? I sure don't.

Jaryohem063

2006-05-29, 02:14

Man, I hope DS replies. Then she'll get owned by a scientologist.

I would pay to see that.

truckfixr

2006-05-29, 02:16

Is it just me , or does anyone else think that Digital_Thetan seems awfully similar to Abrahim? Possibly even share the same IP?

Clarphimous

2006-05-29, 02:19

There was a real Scientologist who used to post here. His username was something like "I See Hell In My Eyes." He didn't belong to the actual "Church of Scientology," though. He seemed to be involved in an underground movement of Scientologists who didn't find favor with the church.

Edit: it was more like "I see hell in your eyes."

Edit2: okay, so it was "I See Hell In My Eyes"

http://tinyurl.com/epmru

[This message has been edited by Clarphimous (edited 05-29-2006).]

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 02:25

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Hahahaha... not only did you just create that Totse account, but you also just created the Yahoo e-mail account displayed in your Totse profile.

http: //profiles .yahoo.com /digitalth etan

Not like we would have ever guessed that.

I want every single person on this board to know I'm a Scientologist. I'm proud of my religion and feel no reason to hide it, hence my screen name. However, I do feel a need to hide my real identity. Like I said, I've been a Scientologist for over 8 years. I'm well aware of the hostility towards my religion, hence I created the account conceal my real-life identity.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Tell us, how do you know that Scientology is true and other religions aren't?

Scientology is different from other religions in the fact that it encourages people to discover Truth through personal experience, rather than dogmatic teachings. I know that the teachings of Scientology are true because I have applied them and have seen how much I've improved, in all aspects of life.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

Is there some sort of punishment for people who don't believe in your religion?

Unlike typical western religions, Scientologists don't believe in an eternal heaven or hell. The benefits of being a Scientologist can be found here on earth. So if you reject Scientology, you don't have to worry about going to hell.

quote:Originally posted by Clarphimous:

And what the heck has happened to Tom Cruise?

What about him?

-DT-

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 02:42

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

There have been so many substantiated claims from former scientologists about incredibly odd beliefs and cult like practices such as ostracizing former members that it is quite surprising to me that there are people out there who don't assume that scientology is false.

Oh really? As far as I know, there have only been a few isolated cases of this sort of thing, generally by people who had a bad experience with the Church and wish to slander it. If you can find several reputable claims of this sort of thing, please, show me.

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

What is up with Xenu?

If I told you that Christianity teaches that people should rape babies, would you believe me? I hope not. You'd look at primary sources (in this case, the Bible) and you would then reject the claim. However, if someone makes an obscene claim about Scientology, people are quick to believe it without first contacting the Church.

The Xenu myth was propogated by former church members that just happened to have a bad experience with the Church. I challenge you to find primary sources, from the Church of Scientology, that confirm the Xenu myth. They don't exist. If you can find them, I'll happily renounce my religion.

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

Why is it that there are reports of scientology taking all of people's money?

Again, I'd love to see credible reports of this sort of thing. Like I said, members who have bad experiences with the Church often like to slander it.

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

Why do scientologists recruit celebrities?

I, along with all Scientologists, feel that almost everyone can benefit from the teachings of Scientology. And, as I mentioned, there is nothing more than I (or any member of the Church of Scientology) would like to do than share those benefits with everyone. In order to do this, we need to expose ourselves to society. Celebrities are often in the public spotlight, so they are have an especially important role in spreading our message.

I feel obligated to note, however, we don't feel the need to push our beliefs upon you. In fact, The Scientology Creed (http://www.scientology.org/world/worldeng/corp/creed.htm) specifically states "That all men have inalienable rights to their own religious practices." Can anyone here name another religion that preaches religious tolerance? Anyone?

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

Why won't Tom Cruise shut the fuck up?

There are plenty of celebrities that are open about their faith. I see nothing wrong with this. Do you?

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 02:43

quote:Originally posted by cac0:

I have a question. Do you think that scientology is any more believable than a science fiction novel? I sure don't.

Can you apply the teachings of a science fiction novel? Generally not. However, you can apply the teachings of Scientology, and as I have found out, they work. This is why Scientology is more credible than a science fiction novel

farq

2006-05-29, 02:44

I've heard scientologists say that you can be a christian/muslim AND a scientologist and YOU are saying that talking snakes and virgin births are absurd claims.

You are obviously talking about Christianity so why didn't you just say like christianity (too scared to take it on).

Hubbard was full of shit, his own son said that he was full of shit, didn't his daughter kill herself?

Scientology is not a religion, at best it is self-help cd's like that anthony bloke and at worst it is a bloodsucking cult.

I put it to you that you are a full-time employee of the CoS, are full of shit and have no idea how much everybody wants you to die.

Abrahim

2006-05-29, 02:46

Ok in summary, what is Scientology, what are its funamentals, how does one become a scientology, how does one live as a scientologist, what is a thetan what do you think of www.xenu.net (http://www.xenu.net) ?

Clarphimous

2006-05-29, 02:49

quote:Again, I'd love to see credible reports of this sort of thing. Like I said, members who have bad experiences with the Church often like to slander it.

Why do members have bad experiences with the Church of Scientology in the first place?

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 02:55

quote:Originally posted by farq:

I've heard scientologists say that you can be a christian/muslim AND a scientologist and YOU are saying that talking snakes and virgin births are absurd claims.

I personally feel those claims are absurd. They are unsubstantiable and go against everything I know about how the world works. However, one can apply the teachings of Scientology while still practicing another religion, yes.

quote:Originally posted by farq:

You are obviously talking about Christianity so why didn't you just say like christianity (too scared to take it on).

Those are common Christian beliefs and I felt that a religious forum would be familiar with them, hence I felt it would be redundant to mention that they are Christian beliefs.

quote:Originally posted by farq:

Hubbard was full of shit, his own son said that he was full of shit

Why? When did his own son denounce Scientology (I haven't studied the personal life of Dr. Hubbard).

quote:Originally posted by farq:

didn't his daughter kill herself?

Like I said, I haven't studied the personal life of Dr. Hubbard. If you could substantiate that statement it would be insightful.

quote:Originally posted by farq:

Scientology is not a religion, at best it is self-help cd's like that anthony bloke and at worst it is a bloodsucking cult.

What evidence do you have that suggests Scientology is a "bloodsucking cult." It's not like we get off on drinking what we are convinced is the blood of our savior.

quote:Originally posted by farq:

I put it to you that you are a full-time employee of the CoS, are full of shit and have no idea how much everybody wants you to die.

I am not employed by the CoS in any way, shape, or form. I am not "full of shit." If you can disprove anything I've said on this board, please do. And like I said, I've been a Scientologist for 8 years. I understand how hostile the general populace is towards my religion.

-DT-

Boblong

2006-05-29, 02:57

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I fully believe that all the teachings of Scientology are true, because I've applied the teachings myself and expereinced the benefits. If you are genuinely interested in exposing yourself to Scientology (and the associtated benefits) I'd recommend picking up a copy of Hubbard's Dianetics.

-DT-

Improvement in your life is not evidence of correctness of beliefs, for instance if I stopped using cocaine because someone told me I would turn into a chicken and I stopped my health would improve. That does not however mean that he is right. The same thing applies in your case. Your life improving means not that it Scientology is correct but that it is the correct religion for you, and makes you happier or whatever other improvement it causes.

Regardless of that why does Scientology require money to learn the truth? Can you provide any of the writings and tapes Scientology is based on?

And lastly could an admin please compare IPs on this person?

[This message has been edited by Boblong (edited 05-29-2006).]

Clarphimous

2006-05-29, 03:01

quote:What evidence do you have that suggests Scientology is a "bloodsucking cult." It's not like we get off on drinking what we are convinced is the blood of our savior.

ROOFLES!

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 03:14

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Ok in summary, what is Scientology, what are its funamentals

From the Scientology website:

The word Scientology literally means "the study of truth." It comes from the Latin word "scio" meaning "knowing in the fullest sense of the word" and the Greek word "logos" meaning "study of."

Scientology is the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, others and all of life. The Scientology religion comprises a body of knowledge extending from certain fundamental truths. Prime among these:

Man is an immortal, spiritual being. His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime. His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized — and those capabilities can be realized. He is able to not only solve his own problems, accomplish his goals and gain lasting happiness, but also achieve new, higher states of awareness and ability.

In Scientology no one is asked to accept anything as belief or on faith. That which is true for you is what you have observed to be true. An individual discovers for himself that Scientology works by personally applying its principles and observing or experiencing results.

Through Scientology, people all over the world are achieving the long-sought goal of true spiritual release and freedom.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

how does one become a scientologist

It's kind of like asking "How do you become a Physicist?" You simply learn about Physics and learn to accept it. How do you become a Scientologist? You learn about Scientology and come to accept it.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

how does one live as a scientologist

Personally, as a Scientologist, I try to incorporate what Scientology has taught me into my everyday life. An example of this would be drug use. Scientology teaches that drugs corrupt our perception of reality and make us unhappy. As a result, I stopped drinking and using illegal drugs. As a result, I am a happier, more productive person.

If you're looking for a set of beliefs, perhaps the Scientology Creed (http://www.scientology.org/world/worldeng/corp/creed.htm) may be of interest to you

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

what is a thetan

It is essentially a soul. It is what animates us. It is what makes us different from rocks.

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

what do you think of www.xenu.net (http://www.xenu.net) ?

Again, this is all stuff from a third party website. If I want to know about Christianity, I read the Bible. If you want to know about Scientology, hear what the Scientologists have to say.

-DT-

farq

2006-05-29, 03:15

So allow me to get this straight.

You have based the last 8 years of your life on what some blokes written.

BUT

You have no idea about his private life.

You sir are a genius.

It's been said that he was a drug addicted B.S artist, where basically nothign he said was true. He used to write science fiction novels, his son said that most of what he says is not true and apparently his daughter killed herself.

I'm not the person who fell for his story, you are so I dont care whether its true either way.

You should though.

'What evidence do you have that suggests Scientology is a "bloodsucking cult." It's not like we get off on drinking what we are convinced is the blood of our savior.'

You also cannot credit scientology by discrediting christianty.

chem42

2006-05-29, 03:19

What happened to Lisa McPherson?

How much money have you given your church?

Whats with "Operation Snow White"? http: //en.wikip edia.org/w iki/Operation_Snow_White (http: //en.wikip edia.org/w iki/Operat ion_Snow_W hite)

in case you dont know

From the judge:

"It is interesting to note that the founder of their organization, unindicted co-conspirator L. Ron Hubbard, wrote in his dictionary entitled Modern Management Technology Defined ... that 'truth is what is true for you.' Thus, with the founder's blessings they could wantonly commit perjury as long as it was in the interest of Scientology.

The defendants rewarded criminal activities that ended in success and sternly rebuked those that failed. The standards of human conduct embodied in such practices represent no less than the absolute perversion of any known ethical value system.

In view of this, it defies the imagination that these defendants have the unmitigated audacity to seek to defend their actions in the name of 'religion.'

That these defendants now attempt to hide behind the sacred principles of freedom of religion, freedom of speech and the right to privacy -- which principles they repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to violate with impunity -- adds insult to the injuries which they have inflicted on every element of society." [5]

"The FBI raid on the Church's headquarters revealed documentation that detailed Scientology actions against various critics of the organization. Among these documents was a plan to frame the mayor of the city of Clearwater, Florida; plans to discredit the skeptical organization CSICOP by spreading rumors that it was a front for the CIA; and a project called "Operation Freakout," aimed at ruining the life of author Paulette Cooper, author of an early book critical of the movement, The Scandal of Scientology."

Nice bunch of people your leaders seem to be.

[This message has been edited by chem42 (edited 05-29-2006).]

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 03:26

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Improvement in your life is not evidence of correctness of beliefs, for instance if I stopped using cocaine because someone told me I would turn into a chicken and I stopped my health would improve. That does not however mean that he is right. The same thing applies in your case. Your life improving means not that it Scientology is correct but that it is the correct religion for you, and makes you happier or whatever other improvement it causes.

I think you're wrong. It is evidence, but not proof. However, your analogy still falls apart. What if you continued using cocaine? You would disprove the claim. What if I were to stop adhering to the teachings of Scientology? Judging by my non-believing friends, I'd most likely be a far less happy, confident, and productive person.

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Regardless of that why does Scientology require money to learn the truth?

Why does it cost $160,000 to get an education from a private University? It costs money to teach students. Scientology, like a University education, is an investment in your future.

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Can you provide any of the writings and tapes Scientology is based on?

Like college textbooks, the teachings of Scientology cost money to produce and publish. As such, we can't simply give them away. However, I'm sure if you stopped at your local Scientology center they'd be happy to let you read (but not keep) some of the books there.

chem42

2006-05-29, 03:32

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Why does it cost $160,000 to get an education from a private University? It costs money to teach students. Scientology, like a University education, is an investment in your future.

OK, then why does being active in your religion cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, while other ones are funded mainly with donations?

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 03:32

quote:Originally posted by farq:

So allow me to get this straight.

You have based the last 8 years of your life on what some blokes written.

BUT

You have no idea about his private life.

You sir are a genius.

You, sir, have yet to demonstrate how his private life is relevant to his teachings. Regardless of what he had to deal with in his private life, his teachings still work. I see it in all kinds of people every day.

quote:Originally posted by farq:

It's been said that he was a drug addicted B.S artist, where basically nothign he said was true. He used to write science fiction novels, his son said that most of what he says is not true and apparently his daughter killed herself.

Like I said, I'd like to see some credible evidence validating or invalidating these claims. You dodged my request and simply attacked him again without providing any sources.

quote:Originally posted by farq:

I'm not the person who fell for his story, you are so I dont care whether its true either way.

You should though.

If you didn't care you wouldn't be posting here. But you are posting because you do care, which is great to see. You've taken the initiative to ask me some questions, why don't you do some independent research and validate the claims you made?

quote:Originally posted by farq:

'What evidence do you have that suggests Scientology is a "bloodsucking cult." It's not like we get off on drinking what we are convinced is the blood of our savior.'

You also cannot credit scientology by discrediting christianty.

I asked you to demonstrate that we were a blood sucking cult, as you alleged. You have failed to do so.

Loc Dogg

2006-05-29, 03:34

Why is the Church of Scintology registered as a BUSINESS instead of a RELIGION?

Elephantitis Man

2006-05-29, 03:40

You say that Scientology isn't 'dogmatic', yet then go on to say it places heavy discouragement on drugs (both psychological and recreational). I have obsessive compulsive dissorder that is contributed to by high serotonin reuptake. It is scientific fact that serotonin affects my behavior, and low serotonin levels are the cause of my obsessive thoughts and compulsive behavior. There is also scientific evidence proving that SSRIs (like Luvox and Lexapro, both of which I have taken) function only to decrease serotonin reuptake and aid in decreasing my obsessive compulsive behaviors. It is a scientifically diagnosed psychological condition with a scientifically tested and properly prescribed solution.

Yet scientology speaks against such medications. The CoS would rather I spend thousands of dollars on unscientifically proven 'auditing techniques' that don't have repeatable, observable methods of testing and proving their effectiveness, than take scientifically proven medications.

Now tell me, how the fuck is the CoS not dogmatic in all of this?!

Like the Catholic church was in prohibiting the autopsies of cadavers for 1500 years and stalling the advancement of medical science with total superstition, the church of Scientology attempts to stall the advancement of psychological and neurological science with superstitions of their own.

From someone who has benefited much from modern psychology and neurology, I say: "Fuck Scientology!" http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

Boblong

2006-05-29, 03:44

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I think you're wrong. It is evidence, but not proof. However, your analogy still falls apart. What if you continued using cocaine? You would disprove the claim. What if I were to stop adhering to the teachings of Scientology? Judging by my non-believing friends, I'd most likely be a far less happy, confident, and productive person.

No it is not evidence, you being happy in no way supports the truth of your beliefs unless they are that you're happy. Continuing using cocaine would disprove it. But unlike with cocaine use you cannot follow though fully on the beliefs of Scientology to see the results because there are no ways to test it.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Why does it cost $160,000 to get an education from a private University? It costs money to teach students. Scientology, like a University education, is an investment in your future.

Because it requires teachers, a facility, and people to clean and maintain that facility. Now, Scientology does not require that. The religious leaders or practitioners could simply post the writings and/or recording on the Internet. The costs for hosting would be substantial but not prohibitive because of the wealth of the "church."

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Like college textbooks, the teachings of Scientology cost money to produce and publish. As such, we can't simply give them away. However, I'm sure if you stopped at your local Scientology center they'd be happy to let you read (but not keep) some of the books there.

Would I be able to view or obtain all of the writings or recordings of Hubbard from my local Scientology center? Would I be able to buy them at cost or within a reasonable amount of cost?

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 03:44

quote:Originally posted by chem42:

What happened to Lisa McPherson?

The Scientologists in charge of her simply weren't competent. However, claiming that this disproves Scientology is like claiming that the fact that Catholic Preists have been convicted of raping children disproves Catholicism.

quote:Originally posted by chem42:

How much money have you given your church?

How much money have you spent on gas in the last 8 years? I don't keep detailed financial records, sorry.

quote:Originally posted by chem42:

Whats with "Operation Snow White"? http: //en.wikip edia.org/w iki/Operation_Snow_White (http: //en.wikip edia.org/w iki/Operat ion_Snow_W hite)

in case you dont know

From the judge:

"It is interesting to note that the founder of their organization, unindicted co-conspirator L. Ron Hubbard, wrote in his dictionary entitled Modern Management Technology Defined ... that 'truth is what is true for you.' Thus, with the founder's blessings they could wantonly commit perjury as long as it was in the interest of Scientology.

The defendants rewarded criminal activities that ended in success and sternly rebuked those that failed. The standards of human conduct embodied in such practices represent no less than the absolute perversion of any known ethical value system.

In view of this, it defies the imagination that these defendants have the unmitigated audacity to seek to defend their actions in the name of 'religion.'

That these defendants now attempt to hide behind the sacred principles of freedom of religion, freedom of speech and the right to privacy -- which principles they repeatedly demonstrated a willingness to violate with impunity -- adds insult to the injuries which they have inflicted on every element of society." [5]

"The FBI raid on the Church's headquarters revealed documentation that detailed Scientology actions against various critics of the organization. Among these documents was a plan to frame the mayor of the city of Clearwater, Florida; plans to discredit the skeptical organization CSICOP by spreading rumors that it was a front for the CIA; and a project called "Operation Freakout," aimed at ruining the life of author Paulette Cooper, author of an early book critical of the movement, The Scandal of Scientology."

Nice bunch of people your leaders seem to be.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Like I said, Scientology isn't about power and money, like people make it out to be, just like Christianity and Islam aren't about the slaughter of non-believers. Sure, there might be a few overzealous members of the Church, but as a whole, we're not about that sort of thing. I join all rational people in denouncing Operation Snow White. I feel it was a mistake and will do whatever it takes to prevent such a thing from happening again.

beergoggles

2006-05-29, 03:46

Digital_Thetan seems to know more about his beliefs than most people. I think scientology is bullshit but I respect him for that.

Elephantitis Man

2006-05-29, 03:48

He isn't 'knowledgeable of his beliefs'.

He's brainwashed, through and through.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 03:49

quote:Originally posted by chem42:

OK, then why does being active in your religion cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, while other ones are funded mainly with donations?

Firstly, I haven't invested that much money in Scientology.

To answer your question, I think there are two reasons for this. Firstly, most other churches have more money than we do. They can afford to subsidize the education of their believers. We can't.

Secondly, the quality of instruction received at the Church of Scientology is far greater than that at a local Church. The best you can hope for at a Church is a one hour service on Sunday and maybe a midweek bible study. In the Church of Scientology I regularly receive 1-on-1 auditing sessions.

You get what you pay for.

Rust

2006-05-29, 03:49

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I think you're wrong. It is evidence, but not proof.

It is neither. It fails to be evidence if it can apply to the opposite conclusion as well - which it can, given that you could have improved your life while scientology being false.

quote:However, your analogy still falls apart. What if you continued using cocaine? You would disprove the claim.

The same would apply in scientology as well, hence the analogy doesn't fail at all, it applies to both scenarios equally, which is a good indication of its validity as an accurate analogy.

quote:

What if I were to stop adhering to the teachings of Scientology? Judging by my non-believing friends, I'd most likely be a far less happy, confident, and productive person.

You mean, judging by your subjective, unscientific and inconclusive opinion? That means nothing. Judging by you, I say that you could become a happier, more confident and more productive person.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 03:51

quote:Originally posted by Loc Dogg:

Why is the Church of Scintology registered as a BUSINESS instead of a RELIGION?

Actually, we are registered with the IRS as a religion, thus we have tax-exempt status.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 04:01

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

You say that Scientology isn't 'dogmatic', yet then go on to say it places heavy discouragement on drugs (both psychological and recreational). I have obsessive compulsive dissorder that is contributed to by high serotonin reuptake. It is scientific fact that serotonin affects my behavior, and low serotonin levels are the cause of my obsessive thoughts and compulsive behavior. There is also scientific evidence proving that SSRIs (like Luvox and Lexapro, both of which I have taken) function only to decrease serotonin reuptake and aid in decreasing my obsessive compulsive behaviors. It is a scientifically diagnosed psychological condition with a scientifically tested and properly prescribed solution.

Yet scientology speaks against such medications. The CoS would rather I spend thousands of dollars on unscientifically proven 'auditing techniques' that don't have repeatable, observable methods of testing and proving their effectiveness, than take scientifically proven medications.

Now tell me, how the fuck is the CoS not dogmatic in all of this?!

Could you list the side-effects of SSRIs? They are not an ideal solution. Could you list the side effects of an auditing session? I have observed the fruits of an auditing session, I am convinced that it is the ideal solution, as are Scientologists. This is why the Church of Scientology believes that auditing sessions are preferable to SSRIs. That's not dogmatic, it's only logical.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Like the Catholic church was in prohibiting the autopsies of cadavers for 1500 years and stalling the advancement of medical science with total superstition, the church of Scientology attempts to stall the advancement of psychological and neurological science with superstitions of their own.

We feel we have a better solution. We have demonstrated this. We have ample success stories. We're advancing science, not hindering it.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

From someone who has benefited much from modern psychology and neurology, I say: "Fuck Scientology!" http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

I'm glad that you've benefited from these medicines, but like I said, there are documented side-effects. I'm just here to tell you there's a better way.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 04:12

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

No it is not evidence, you being happy in no way supports the truth of your beliefs unless they are that you're happy. Continuing using cocaine would disprove it. But unlike with cocaine use you cannot follow though fully on the beliefs of Scientology to see the results because there are no ways to test it.

The Chicken Hypothesis: If you use cocaine, you turn into a chicken.

You stop using cocaine, you don't turn into a chicken. This test, this evidence, is consistent with the chicken hypothesis.

And there are ways to test Scientology. You can partake in an auditing session and see if it helps you. If it helps you, maybe the Scientologists are onto something? If it doesn't, well, it was worth a shot http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Because it requires teachers, a facility, and people to clean and maintain that facility. Now, Scientology does not require that. The religious leaders or practitioners could simply post the writings and/or recording on the Internet. The costs for hosting would be substantial but not prohibitive because of the wealth of the "church."

Firstly, Scientology does need Scientology centers, and they do require the same maitenence as any other educational institution. Secondly, Scientologist writings are provided at a reasonable cost. Why they aren't online, I know not. Thirdly, Scientology involves much more than simply reading texts. One on one auditing sessions are not uncommon. Fourthly, could you prove to me that the Church of Scientology is incredibly rich? I haven't seen any evidence that suggests that...

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Would I be able to view or obtain all of the writings or recordings of Hubbard from my local Scientology center? Would I be able to buy them at cost or within a reasonable amount of cost?

Yeah, I think Dianetics is like $10.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 04:15

quote:Originally posted by beergoggles:

Digital_Thetan seems to know more about his beliefs than most people. I think scientology is bullshit but I respect him for that.

Thanks for the encouragement.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

He isn't 'knowledgeable of his beliefs'.

He's brainwashed, through and through.

Brainwashing entails forced indoctrination. I was not forced into Scientology, I choose to believe in it under my own free will. Please, ask me anything you'd like, but let's not resort to personal attacks.

farq

2006-05-29, 04:20

How is scientologies auditing anything other then cheap, low-quality, untested psychiatry sessions?

A mate that got into scientology began by staring at someones face for an extended period of time, how is that anything but hypnotic?

I could make an accurate estimate at how much money I had spent on my petrol, you could make an accurate estimate at how much your scientology has cost. I read that to be a clear you would have to spend about half a million dollars?

I am pretty sure that the readers digest quoted him as saying that the best way to make money was by creating your own religion.

You cannot possibly seriously argue that his private life is irrelevant to his teachings.

If you were to find out tommorow that he took drugs, ripped people off and acted in a way that you would consider immoral or unethical would you still follow his teachings?

If he didn't follow his own teachings how could you follow them.

Boblong

2006-05-29, 04:24

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Firstly, Scientology does need Scientology centers, and they do require the same maitenence as any other educational institution.

Scientists may need Scientology centers but that does not mean that the teachings of Scientology should not be available for free on the Internet or at least for the cost of hosting. To generate revenue of course.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Secondly, Scientologist writings are provided at a reasonable cost. Why they aren't online, I know not. Thirdly, Scientology involves much more than simply reading texts. One on one auditing sessions are not uncommon. Fourthly, could you prove to me that the Church of Scientology is incredibly rich? I haven't seen any evidence that suggests that..

Can you show me a place where I can purchase the complete teachings of Scientology for a reasonable price? If not why are they not available to the public for a reasonable price?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Thirdly, Scientology involves much more than simply reading texts. One on one auditing sessions are not uncommon. Fourthly, could you prove to me that the Church of Scientology is incredibly rich? I haven't seen any evidence that suggests that..

I will not disagree on the idea that Scientologists receive auditing. Does that have any bearing on whether or not Scientology's writings should be freely or easily available? I never said they were incredibly rich.

Elephantitis Man

2006-05-29, 04:24

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Could you list the side-effects of SSRIs? They are not an ideal solution. Could you list the side effects of an auditing session? I have observed the fruits of an auditing session, I am convinced that it is the ideal solution, as are Scientologists. This is why the Church of Scientology believes that auditing sessions are preferable to SSRIs. That's not dogmatic, it's only logical.

Side effects of SSRIs include:

* nausea

* drowsiness

* headache

* changes in weight and appetite

* changes in sexual behaviour (see the next section)

* increased feelings of depression and anxiety

Most dissappear after an adaptation phase of the first few weeks. The only side-effect I experienced was a slight decrease in libido, which passed shortly.

Furthermore, I do not have to always take SSRIs. I haven't had any in almost a year now. I take them only when under extreme stress for 2-4 months and I am able to maintain control and stop taking them. I am not dependent on them.

quote:We feel we have a better solution. We have demonstrated this. We have ample success stories. We're advancing science, not hindering it.

Advancing science, eh? If that's true there's an easy way to provide a bit of evidence for it: show me a peer reviewed article on the scientific value of auditing as published in a respected scientific journal. There are many scientific journals and databases of such articles online. You boast that your beliefs have credibility in the scientific community. Back it up.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 04:27

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

It is neither. It fails to be evidence if it can apply to the opposite conclusion as well - which it can, given that you could have improved your life while scientology being false.

I was emotionally addicted to marijuana at one point in my life. I tried going cold turkey, but I couldn't drop the habit. Through four auditing sessions, I managed to completely drop the habit. Now, which seems more likely to you: I was able to drop the habit as a result of the therapy I received in the auditing session, or, for reasons unbeknownst to anyone, I was able to break the habit. Occam's razor, my friend.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

The same would apply in scientology as well, hence the analogy doesn't fail at all, it applies to both scenarios equally, which is a good indication of its validity as an accurate analogy.

The general analogy fails, hence I provided a specific example above.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

You mean, judging by your subjective, unscientific and inconclusive opinion? That means nothing. Judging by you, I say that you could become a happier, more confident and more productive person.

This is most certainly true! I don't claim to be perfect, and I know there is definitely room for improvement. I, along most Scientologists, will always pursue self-improvement.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 04:35

quote:Originally posted by farq:

How is scientologies auditing anything other then cheap, low-quality, untested psychiatry sessions?

Because I have observed the results. I am convinced auditing works. Auditing consistently works.

quote:Originally posted by farq:

A mate that got into scientology began by staring at someones face for an extended period of time, how is that anything but hypnotic?

It seems silly to me, but I'm not familiar with that auditing technique. Perhaps we're missing something?

quote:Originally posted by farq:

I could make an accurate estimate at how much money I had spent on my petrol, you could make an accurate estimate at how much your scientology has cost. I read that to be a clear you would have to spend about half a million dollars?

I've invested less than 40,000USD into Scientology. Probably closer to the 25,000-30,000 range. This ends up being less than 5,000USD/year.

quote:Originally posted by farq:

I am pretty sure that the readers digest quoted him as saying that the best way to make money was by creating your own religion.

Was this in an actual interview, or second hand? Could you post a link to a primary source?

quote:Originally posted by farq:

You cannot possibly seriously argue that his private life is irrelevant to his teachings.

If you were to find out tommorow that he took drugs, ripped people off and acted in a way that you would consider immoral or unethical would you still follow his teachings?

If he didn't follow his own teachings how could you follow them.

Again, if you could provide any reputable links regarding the personal life of Dr. Hubbard, please do!

To answer your question, I feel at this point in time his teachings stand on their own. I'm not following him, persay, I'm simply taking advantage of his research. If it turned out Einstein was a pedophile, would that invalidate General Relativity? Of course not.

Boblong

2006-05-29, 04:37

Double blind study of auditing sound good to anyone?

farq

2006-05-29, 04:42

Alright I can offer something we both agree scientology talks about that clearly does not work.

It's program to get rid of drug residue's left in your body after drug use. I have no idea what its called, no im not looking it up.

It involves drinking a drink with magenesium sulphate maybe? Epsom salts or something? Whatever it is there is absolutely no proof or reason that this concoction would have anything like the effects that it purports.

Magnesium to rid the body of molecules of drug residue?

Elephantitis Man

2006-05-29, 04:48

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Occam's razor, my friend.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Yes, this is ad homimem. Blow me.

quote:Because I have observed the results. I am convinced auditing works. Auditing consistently works.

*cough*brainwashed*cough*

quote:I've invested less than 40,000USD into Scientology. Probably closer to the 25,000-30,000 range. This ends up being less than 5,000USD/year

Self-pwned! Hahahahaha! You're gullible. I like you! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 04:51

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Scientists may need Scientology centers but that does not mean that the teachings of Scientology should not be available for free on the Internet or at least for the cost of hosting. To generate revenue of course.

I agree, it would be great to have the teachings online!

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Can you show me a place where I can purchase the complete teachings of Scientology for a reasonable price? If not why are they not available to the public for a reasonable price?

I've always bought my books directly at the Church, so I don't know where you could buy them online. If you find a place, let me know!

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

I will not disagree on the idea that Scientologists receive auditing. Does that have any bearing on whether or not Scientology's writings should be freely or easily available? I never said they were incredibly rich.

I see no reason why the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard shouldn't be freely avaliable online, they should be, I completely agree with you!

Elephantitis Man

2006-05-29, 04:53

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I see no reason why the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard shouldn't be freely avaliable online, they should be, I completely agree with you!

Propose it to your fellow church members. Then sit and cry after they excommunicate you.

Boblong

2006-05-29, 04:55

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I've always bought my books directly at the Church, so I don't know where you could buy them online. If you find a place, let me know!

How much did they cost you?

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 04:55

quote:Originally posted by farq:

Alright I can offer something we both agree scientology talks about that clearly does not work.

It's program to get rid of drug residue's left in your body after drug use. I have no idea what its called, no im not looking it up.

It involves drinking a drink with magenesium sulphate maybe? Epsom salts or something? Whatever it is there is absolutely no proof or reason that this concoction would have anything like the effects that it purports.

Magnesium to rid the body of molecules of drug residue?

I am not personally familiar with this study, so I don't feel I am in a position to comment on it. If you could find a page on it, perhaps you'd find the evidence you're looking for!

PS: If you find something, POST IT!!!

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 04:58

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

How much did they cost you?

The most I have ever paid for a book is $100 (the Scientology handbook, a 900 page book), and most books are avaliable in the $5-10 range.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 05:02

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Yes, this is ad homimem. Blow me.

I can assure you I know what Occam's razor is, and it is quite applicable to my story.

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

*cough*brainwashed*cough*

Everything I have done I have done under my own free will. For the second time, I ask you to explain to me how does this constitute brainwashing?

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Self-pwned! Hahahahaha! You're gullible. I like you! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Would I be "gullible" if I invested even more money in a college education (which I did, by the way)? They are both a means to self-improvement. The only gullible person is the one who can convince himself that self-improvement is a bad thing.

Boblong

2006-05-29, 05:02

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

The most I have ever paid for a book is $100 (the Scientology handbook, a 900 page book), and most books are avaliable in the $5-10 range.

Are all of the books available to those who are not Scientologysts?

Jaryohem063

2006-05-29, 05:03

DT, I had the same problems you did with drugs and alcohol. Almost to the letter. I cured mine with Mormonism. I am also a far happier person than anyone else I know outside the church. I can't claim that this change alone is anywhere near evidence of my church's truth.

The correct and consistant application of most modern religious philosophies will yield a better, happier person. After I joined the church, I tried to get my alcoholic, meth addicted father to join the church. He took a couple discussions from the missionaries, but had doctrinal issues with our beliefs, and stopped. Very soon after, he began attending a baptist church with a friend of his. He applied the protestant philosophy to his life, studied it, lived it, and now he is a far better, happier person.

I can bring up plenty more anecdotal evidence to support my point, but just as yours, they prove nothing scientifically. Not all three of these religions can be the one true faith.

However, you can look at what scientology does to know it can't be true. It did not cost me a dime to become mormon, outside of the gas it took me to go to church. I have recieved the same benefits that you have without the loss of 5 thousand dollars a year.

Then you look at your greatest leader. L. Ron Hubbard. I find it somewhat unbelievable that a college dropout employed writing pulp science fiction could somehow "research" and "discover" the inner workings of the universe. You people venerate him as a war hero, when his commanding officers described him as "unsatisfactory for any assignment". Did you know he continued to collect disability payments from the army for arthritis, bursitis, and conjunctivitis for years afterwards, long after he claimed to have discovered the secret of how to cure these ailments?

In '78 he was convicted of felony fraud in france and sentanced to 4 years in prison, which he refused to serve.

In '79 his wife and several other high ranking scientologists were convicted of conspiracy against the US government.

Upon his death, the autopsy revealed high levels of Hydroxyzine, a psycoactive drug, which would have been expressely forbidden by scientology doctrine.

In an interview with PBS, his son L. Ron Jr. said that "99% of what my father said or wrote about himself is totally untrue." http://members.cox.net/batchild1/transcript/pbs1.htm

His daughter did not commit suicide though, his son quint did.

None of this is difficult to find, in fact, I had to look no farther than the wikipedia article on hubbard. I find it shameful that the rest of you on here are attacking this man, but yet refuse to do any research whatsoever. You're worse than he is. At least his unfounded delusions have yielded him some happiness.

Rust

2006-05-29, 05:04

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I was emotionally addicted to marijuana at one point in my life. I tried going cold turkey, but I couldn't drop the habit. Through four auditing sessions, I managed to completely drop the habit. Now, which seems more likely to you: I was able to drop the habit as a result of the therapy I received in the auditing session, or, for reasons unbeknownst to anyone, I was able to break the habit. Occam's razor, my friend.

That isn't evidence of anything. Nobody here has said that counseling, in whatever form, does not help in recovering from addiction. The point is that your personal experience is not evidence of Scientology being correct, because you could have done so without Scientology as well. Countless people quit addiction every day, be it cold turkey, or through some form of counseling or group that has nothing to do with Scientology; that alone shows how Scientology is quite simply superfluous to the issue.

Since you bring up Occam's razor, then you should know that it only applies to things that actually fit the scientific evidence at hand.

Not only is your explanation not the simplest one, as it is certainly not simpler to believe that Scientology possesses some unique magical technique that the rest of the world does not, but it also does not fit the evidence at hand. "E-meters" and "thetans" do not even come close to being supported by any credible evidence.

quote:The general analogy fails, hence I provided a specific example above.

No, it doesn't fail; it accurately represents the problem at hand. You've not shown otherwise.

quote:This is most certainly true! I don't claim to be perfect, and I know there is definitely room for improvement. I, along most Scientologists, will always pursue self-improvement.

Please re-read what I said, and notice the context. I meant that without Scientology, I believe that you would be a more productive individual. I said this to show how the way you were "judging" was nothing more than your subjective opinion, which worth as much as mine (which says the opposite).

---

P.S. Explain this quote from Hubbard:

"The most to know about the baby is not to tire him or her unduly for a week or so, feed a protein formula if mother not breast feeding. This formula is most like human milk. I picked it up in Roman days and have used it since -- 15 ounces of barley water, 10 ounces of homogenized milk, 3 ounces Karo syrup (this can be multiplied by any number according to the number of bottles desired but the ratio remains the same). Evaporated or condensed milk and heavy sugar make fat not bone. *Protein* is the thing that heals and makes strong growth. Modern hospital formulas and patent mixes for babies are not just bad, they are criminal"

a. Why does he promote an unhealthy and extremely dangerous alternative to breast-milk?

b. How could he have possibly "picked it up in Roman days"?

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 05-29-2006).]

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 05:04

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Are all of the books available to those who are not Scientologysts?

Most certainly!

A Scientology Bookstore (http://tinyurl.com/pmqyc)

Rust

2006-05-29, 05:10

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

I find it shameful that the rest of you on here are attacking this man, but yet refuse to do any research whatsoever. You're worse than he is. At least his unfounded delusions have yielded him some happiness.

Yes, I'm sure you have done a humongous amount of research on that ridiculous claim you just made. Please, show us how you've researched our alleged lack of research.

This should be funny.

Boblong

2006-05-29, 05:16

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

I find it shameful that the rest of you on here are attacking this man, but yet refuse to do any research whatsoever. You're worse than he is. At least his unfounded delusions have yielded him some happiness.

Who here is attacking him? Were we attacking Abrahim by asking questions on Islam? The difference between that thread and this thread is a slightly more negative tone, I think you're exaggerating.

Abrahim

2006-05-29, 05:22

So I went to the toilet and did a REAL PUA!

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 05:25

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

DT, I had the same problems you did with drugs and alcohol. Almost to the letter. I cured mine with Mormonism. I am also a far happier person than anyone else I know outside the church. I can't claim that this change alone is anywhere near evidence of my church's truth.

The correct and consistant application of most modern religious philosophies will yield a better, happier person. After I joined the church, I tried to get my alcoholic, meth addicted father to join the church. He took a couple discussions from the missionaries, but had doctrinal issues with our beliefs, and stopped. Very soon after, he began attending a baptist church with a friend of his. He applied the protestant philosophy to his life, studied it, lived it, and now he is a far better, happier person.

Glad to hear of your success. Keep in mind, though, there is still always room for improvement. There is nothing preventing you from practicing Mormonism and Scientology at the same time. You might want to consider it.

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

I can bring up plenty more anecdotal evidence to support my point, but just as yours, they prove nothing scientifically. Not all three of these religions can be the one true faith.

There is a difference between Scientology and most other religions. The validity of Scientology isn't dependent upon the afterlife. The validity of Scientology is dependent upon observable rewards in this life.

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

However, you can look at what scientology does to know it can't be true. It did not cost me a dime to become mormon, outside of the gas it took me to go to church. I have recieved the same benefits that you have without the loss of 5 thousand dollars a year.

I guess I don't know too much about your mormon experience. Did you get free books? (Or did you have to buy yours like I did?) Did you get to talk to pastor for several hours, one on one? (or did you get to listen to the guy for one hour with several hundred others?)

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

Then you look at your greatest leader. L. Ron Hubbard. I find it somewhat unbelievable that a college dropout employed writing pulp science fiction could somehow "research" and "discover" the inner workings of the universe. You people venerate him as a war hero, when his commanding officers described him as "unsatisfactory for any assignment". Did you know he continued to collect disability payments from the army for arthritis, bursitis, and conjunctivitis for years afterwards, long after he claimed to have discovered the secret of how to cure these ailments?

Can you back this up?

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

In '78 he was convicted of felony fraud in france and sentanced to 4 years in prison, which he refused to serve.

And Jesus Christ was given the death penalty.

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

In '79 his wife and several other high ranking scientologists were convicted of conspiracy against the US government.

See above, and I hadn't heard of this one, so you could provide a link?

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

Upon his death, the autopsy revealed high levels of Hydroxyzine, a psycoactive drug, which would have been expressely forbidden by scientology doctrine.

Link?

quote:Originally posted by Jaryohem063:

In an interview with PBS, his son L. Ron Jr. said that "99% of what my father said or wrote about himself is totally untrue." ht tp://membe rs.cox.net /batchild1/transcript/pbs1.htm (http: //members. cox.net/ba tchild1/tr anscript/p bs1.htm)

His daughter did not commit suicide though, his son quint did.

None of this is difficult to find, in fact, I had to look no farther than the wikipedia article on hubbard. I find it shameful that the rest of you on here are attacking this man, but yet refuse to do any research whatsoever. You're worse than he is. At least his unfounded delusions have yielded him some happiness.

Thank you for providing at least one link, it is interesting that his son said that. Regardless, his research stands on it's own; it's not dependent upon his character.

Digital_Thetan

2006-05-29, 05:28

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Explain this quote from Hubbard:

"The most to know about the baby is not to tire him or her unduly for a week or so, feed a protein formula if mother not breast feeding. This formula is most like human milk. I picked it up in Roman days and have used it since -- 15 ounces of barley water, 10 ounces of homogenized milk, 3 ounces Karo syrup (this can be multiplied by any number according to the number of bottles desired but the ratio remains the same). Evaporated or condensed milk and heavy sugar make fat not bone. *Protein* is the thing that heals and makes strong growth. Modern hospital formulas and patent mixes for babies are not just bad, they are criminal"

a. Why does he promote an unhealthy and extremely dangerous alternative to breast-milk?

Could you please demonstrate that this is eithr unhealthy or extremely dangerous?

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

b. How could he have possibly "picked it up in Roman days"?

We believe in reincarnation. When your body dies, your thetan finds another body.

Abrahim

2006-05-29, 05:35

Do Animals have Thetans?

Boblong

2006-05-29, 05:40

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Now, which seems more likely to you: I was able to drop the habit as a result of the therapy I received in the auditing session, or, for reasons unbeknownst to anyone, I was able to break the habit. Occam's razor, my friend.

I just noticed this when Rust pointed it out. Occam's Razor does support that the therapy worked but not for scientific reasons. Less assumptions are made when saying that it was the placebo effect than that it worked because of a physiological matter. Occam's razor would suggest the placebo effect.

Jaryohem063

2006-05-29, 05:43

quote:Glad to hear of your success. Keep in mind, though, there is still always room for improvement. There is nothing preventing you from practicing Mormonism and Scientology at the same time. You might want to consider it.

Common sense does. I can improve myself for far less than 5000 dollars a year. I can see a psycologist, who will do the same one on one thing that your audit counselors will do, for nothing, as my insurance would cover it.

quote:There is a difference between Scientology and most other religions. The validity of Scientology isn't dependent upon the afterlife. The validity of Scientology is dependent upon observable rewards in this life.

Rewards which can be gained by other means for little or no money. By that same logic, you could judge my religion to be valuable simply because it yielded the same results as yours, and when we die, my religion might pay off, whereas yours definately will not.

quote:I guess I don't know too much about your mormon experience. Did you get free books? (Or did you have to buy yours like I did?) Did you get to talk to pastor for several hours, one on one? (or did you get to listen to the guy for one hour with several hundred others?)

Every week, for free, I met with the missionaries, two of them, just me and both of them. After that, we are "home taught" once a month for about an hour by another member of our congregation. If I need help, my bishop would love to sit down with me and talk me through whatever, for free. In fact, my bishop, fiancee and I talked at length earlier today about wedding plans.

As far as books go, I was provided with a copy of the Book Of Mormon, and if I had wanted it, I could have been given a free copy of the Holy bible. I did by a nice 50 dollar leatherbound quad, which contains all 4 books of scripture. I could have bought a lower quality one for 5 bucks if I had chosen, but I wanted the good one. However, all our scripture is available online through www.lds.org (http://www.lds.org) .

I will admit, before we go any farther, that I do donate money to my church. Ammounts that one day may equal your own. However, I do that out of my own personal choice. Should I discontinue my tithe, I will be accepted as a member of the church, I will be loved, and I will have every service the church has to offer at my fingertips. And if I get into financial trouble, my church will help me out. Will yours? You speak so much of your religions wonderful positive impact on you and the world, but althogh it makes you happy, it does not make you a better person. You do not often see scientologists giving to charity or helping out others. If a scientologist needs their house fixed do other scientologists rush in to help them?

quote:And Jesus Christ was given the death penalty.

A punishment which he accepted and served without any attempt on his part to weasel out of it.

quote:See above, and I hadn't heard of this one, so you could provide a link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L_Ron_Hubbard

It is time now for you to provide us with links to substantiate your claims. Find me one credible, non scientologist study which can confirm the effectiveness of audit counseling.

farq

2006-05-29, 05:47

Scientology believes in reincarnation, that when you die your thetan finds another human body?.

That means, irrefutably, that you cannot be a christian, muslim, hindu or basically follow any religion and be a scientologist.

Basically the only argument that you have that cannot be disputed is that scientology makes you happy.

You cannot succesfully argue it is logical, rational, that the creator wasn't full of shit but the only thing that can't be disproven - that you are happy is all you have. ok ok fair enough good effort they say ignorance is bliss, I think that most people are only able to believe what their ready to believe anyway.

Rust

2006-05-29, 05:53

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Could you please demonstrate that this is eithr unhealthy or extremely dangerous?

I will. Can you demonstrate that breast milk is worse than the concoction that Hubbard suggests? Surely, if Scientology is not a dangerous and lunatic organization, it would choose between the most healthy of the "milks". Since it choses that potion that Hubbard describes, then please show me how it is more healthy. That's only fair given what you've now requested of me.

Now, as for your request: Hubbard suggests using honey instead of corn syrup (if the latter is not available), which is extremely dangerous to children (http://www.nutriwatch.org/06FST/honey.html). That, coupled with the numerous benefits of breast milk (http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/177_03_050802/mcv10387_fm.html) which the baby would not receive if he were to take the barley formula instead of breast milk, is enough to show how that practice is unhealthy and dangerous.

quote:We believe in reincarnation. When your body dies, your thetan finds another body.

1. I know, the problem arises when the Romans couldn't have possibly have Karo syrup (i.e. corn syrup). Europe didn't know of corn till the colonization of America, which is after the Roman Empire fell.

2. That belief in and of itself brings problems. That certainly does not withstand Occam's Razor. It is far more simple to believe that there are no "thetans", than it is to believe that these souls exist and travel to another body after ones death, carrying with them past experiences... all while avoiding any scientific detection.

You're being dishonest if you argued in favor of applying Occam's Razor before, but completely ignore doing so in this case.

P.S. You ignored the rest of my reply, does that mean you concede it?

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 05-29-2006).]

Elephantitis Man

2006-05-29, 06:08

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

I know, the problem arises when the Romans couldn't have possibly have Karo syrup (i.e. corn syrup). Europe didn't know of corn till the colonization of America, which is after the Roman Empire fell.

*dry humps Rust's leg*

<3 Rust

http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Jaryohem063

2006-05-29, 06:09

quote:We believe in reincarnation. When your body dies, your thetan finds another body.

Really?

Whenever I talk to scientologists in real life, they tell me that they don't. In fact, I got this exact response from the scientology center in minneapolis.

Someone is lying. Is it you or them?

I'll tell you that nobody's gonna lie about mormon beliefs. Except nonmormons.

Abrahim

2006-05-29, 06:33

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_opera_in_Scientology_doctrine This is so cool!

weedman

2006-05-29, 08:20

to the OP fuck you man,

im catholic

the thing i hate about you and other faggit religons is that you feel you have to put down and make the bible look like a fuckin acid trip to rest of the worl to make your religon look valid. well since your already dissin my religon ill point out how fucked up yours is.

1) you love tom cruise

2) your a fag and tom cruise loves you for it

3) hollywood made your religon popular

4) your a fag

5) L.Ron Hubbard or w.e the fuck his name is sounds like a fat fuck who has no life and sits at his computer all day (hhmmmm maby a little bit like you) so fuck u, go stick tom cruise up your ass and take your scienttoligist ppl with you on a mass suicide and cleanse the world.

p.s. take the soccor moms with you

Boblong

2006-05-29, 08:52

quote:Originally posted by weedman:

the thing i hate about you and other faggit religons is that you feel you have to put down and make the bible look like a fuckin acid trip to rest of the worl to make your religon look valid.

A women who grows out of a man's rib talks to a snake. Doesn't sound like an acid trip at all. Especially once you get to the point where her descendants live 900 years.

[This message has been edited by Boblong (edited 05-29-2006).]

Alveric

2006-05-29, 11:09

Adrenochrome

2006-05-29, 11:17

Scientology is a religion invented by a science fiction writer to make loads of money.

Just what we need, another religion to enslave people and make them emotionless bastards.

It's bullshit.

[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 05-29-2006).]

Abrahim

2006-05-29, 11:51

Would be nice maybe if religion actually DID make people emotionless lol Rather it makes them over emotional from what I've seen! Either way, I'm a big fan of emotions.

weedman

2006-05-29, 14:29

I did some reading and I found out the dude who started the religon is dead. Im happy now. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

AstronomyDomine

2006-05-30, 03:07

`Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous, if a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion.'

-- L. Ron Hubbard

kenwih

2006-05-30, 04:22

why did you name yourself digital_thetan? that's like digital_savior calling herself digital_satan. do you really know nothing about scientology and are just full of shit?

if you really are a scientologist, how do you explain the cult behavior of the organization? don't even try to deny it, scientology clearly has levels of knowledge that you have to pay money to ascend to. this behavior is not observed in mainstream religions.

prozak_jack

2006-05-30, 05:02

DT, like most Scientologists, you opt to pull the "BLAH BLAH BLAH I'M NOT LISTENING" defense, which is unfortunate because I want to have a real discussion with a Scientologist who can back himself up instead of resorting to petty games.

realitycourse

2006-05-30, 15:26

I take everything what I read and what everyone says with a grain of salt, and decide whether or not what is being said is worth putting energy towards...???

Is it????

Who are you trying to convince to make yourselves feel better?

Scientology if someone believes it...That is great!!! If someone else believes in something else, that is great as well..AS long as you realise that there is no point fighting because the whole point of religion is to separate us, then you will wake up and not give a fuck...!!!!!!

Kapiiiich?

P.s I haven't read what anyone has written, or do I feel like I need to waste my time..But what I have said, hopefully makes sense!

P.Ps I don't mean to sound arrogant and it's the last thing I want to sound like, but it seems the reoccuring topic in here coming up about....

GOD does he exist---No

What do your describe God as?

Why is religion bad?

WHy is religion Good...

THERE IS NO BAD OR GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MERGE THEM INTO ONE!!!!!!!!!

Don't rely on anyone but YOURSELF TO BE HAPPY!!! Remember hope is an insecurity of your ability!

JesuitArtiste

2006-05-30, 16:41

quote:Originally posted by weedman:

to the OP fuck you man,

im catholic

the thing i hate about you and other faggit religons is that you feel you have to put down and make the bible look like a fuckin acid trip to rest of the worl to make your religon look valid. well since your already dissin my religon ill point out how fucked up yours is.

1) you love tom cruise

2) your a fag and tom cruise loves you for it

3) hollywood made your religon popular

4) your a fag

5) L.Ron Hubbard or w.e the fuck his name is sounds like a fat fuck who has no life and sits at his computer all day (hhmmmm maby a little bit like you) so fuck u, go stick tom cruise up your ass and take your scienttoligist ppl with you on a mass suicide and cleanse the world.

p.s. take the soccor moms with you

We seem to have a catholic called "weedman" Who seems to have the barest grasp of english AND also be a rude ignorant fuck at the same time?

Dude, Shut the fuck up and come back when you can add to a conversation...

But to add something:

What does it matter if this guys church is a bag of shit? What does it matter if he gets ripped off? The beliefs make him feel better , he seems happy with his beliefs, and doesn't seem to miss the 5000 a year. Other beliefs exact the penalty of eternal suffering for not beleieving in th ,and yet scientology seems to deal with this nicely , not well ,but adequately.

His beliefs are just as valid as everyone else's. You can call them as bullshit as you want , He may be in the midst of a fraud ,but it works? SO what atters this extra shit?

DT ,nice to see you not getting pissed at this . Keep up the work.

*Brown nosing skill progresses +5*

hedonist

2006-05-31, 00:41

Abrahim

2006-05-31, 04:39

quote:Originally posted by hedonist:

TROLL.

So what if he is a troll, if he can be an accurate ambassador of Scientology then it doesn't matter what he really really believes.

anton_skater

2006-05-31, 07:39

Sorry I'm terrible with quote function, however something along these lines was said:

If Einstein was a pedophile then would you throw out his findings?

That is not a good analogy because Einstein didn't teach us how to live our life. He gave us his scientific findings, which he proved with his research. Whether he was a pedophile or not is irrelevant. He was not teaching us morals.

Furthermore the belief that our souls are reincarnated does not fit with other religions. So you can not be a true follower of both religions.

Most mainstream organized religions require no money be spent to enjoy the fruits of their teachings. Yes I can go have a one on one with my pastor anytime I want, and he is more than happy to help my walk with God. Bible are given out to those who need them, and as someone pointed out earlier, the Church is more than happy to help those in a financial predicament.

Organizations like the Red Cross and Salvation Army have been set up by mainstream religions to help those that are in need, does scientology have any of the said organizations in effect?

As much as I enjoy disagreeing with Rust, he brings up valid points which you do not rebut, therefore I ask you to show scientific proof in your claims.

Abrahim

2006-05-31, 07:45

If Einstein farted would his hair be blue?

anton_skater

2006-05-31, 08:04

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

If Einstein farted would his hair be blue?

Are you hell bent on losing any semblance of respect that you may, or may not, have had on here?

rms

2006-06-02, 15:39

Hey digital:

What's it like worshipping a deity that was minvented as a joke only 50 years ago? Don't you feel really, really stupid?

JesuitArtiste

2006-06-02, 17:44

quote:Originally posted by rms:

Hey digital:

What's it like worshipping a deity that was minvented as a joke only 50 years ago? Don't you feel really, really stupid?

Hey Rms how does it feel to add nothing to a conversation? Don't you feel really, really stupid?

I sure as hell do.

asthesunsets

2006-06-10, 22:00

What's the point of reincarnation if we can't remember past lives?

How can reincarnation exist if there are more people living now than have ever died? Is there some kind of soul machine?

dead_people_killer

2006-06-10, 23:54

I found a few things about the CoS very funny....

1. CoS (church of scientology) and CoS (church of satan) have very similar beliefs.

2. Scientologists believe that they can cure their problems with a jumpbox that detects your mental state (if you read up on the e-meter, its a really crude device. Its a Wheatstone bridge attached to a pair of handles. The auditing sessions consist of someone holding onto the paddles and and recieving a low-grade electrocution. The fact that the resistance of the body changes slightly is the basis for their "belief" that the damn thing is detecting something. A lie detector works in a very similar fashion. In fact, it is more likely that the E-meter is simply detecting physical fluctuations in the body's conductivity, exactly as a lie detector does.)

[This message has been edited by dead_people_killer (edited 06-10-2006).]

dead_people_killer

2006-06-11, 00:04

Oh yeah, this is fun too...

quote:As a matter of formal doctrine, the Church professes to have abandoned any contention that there is a scientific basis for claiming cures resulting from E-meter use. The Church, however, continued widely to circulate Scientology literature such as Government's exhibits 16 and 31, which hold out false scientific and medical promises of certain cure for many types of illnesses.

as for reference.....

UNITED STATES of America, Libelant,

v.

An ARTICLE OR DEVICE "HUBBARD ELECTROMETER" or "Hubbard E-Meter," etc.,

Founding Church of Scientology et al., Claimants.

No. D.C. 1-63.

United States District Court,

District of Columbia.

July 30, 1971.

thermite is my porn

2006-06-11, 05:29

weedman, its people like you who are an embarassment to catholics everywhere. Personally, I find scientology entertaining becauuse the followers are so brainwashed. But I really don't have a problem with them, they can believe anyything they want. I do respect him that he is answering most of the questions/

Perspicacious

2006-06-12, 02:33

What in your opinion was inaccurate about the South Park description of Scientology?

ScioHere

2006-06-12, 04:08

Hey there,

I just found this message board and read through this thread and I must say that I admire Digital_Thetan's willingness to disseminate Scientology and the gains he has had from the application of the Scientology Technology/Processes.

I also am a Scientologist and have been for 20 years now.

I will not debate Xenu or Space Opera or any of the things which have or could be said about Hubbard.

I will say this...Through the application of Hubbard's Study Technology I have seen people go from 3rd to 4th grade reading level to college level in under a year.

Through Hubbard's Ethics Technology I have seen felons straighten themselves out and live criminality free lives, one guy even returned to the US and turned himself in to the FBI to serve his time so could feel he had atoned for his crimes. I have also seen several marriages saved via this technology.

Through Hubbard's Drug Recovery Technology I have seen many people come off hard drugs and lead drug free and productive lives.

Through Hubbard's Assist Technology I have helped many, many people with body ailments and was even able to keep a lady alive when I came upon her overturned car.

Through Hubbard's Auditing Technology I have seen so many changes in so many people I could hardly start to list it all.

Personally, I have had gains throughout my experiences with Scientology. I have had major gains in my level of perception, communication ability, and awareness of who I am. The handling of problems in my life since Scientology is to a point that I really haven't had a problem that was really a problem for a long time now.

The Technology on evaluating data has helped me in understanding data and given me the ability to quickly distinguish truth from unworkable ideas.

I guess my greatest gain though would have to be the ability I have to help others. I KNOW how the mind works. I help people often and there is always a common theme to all those I help who don't know beforehand that I'm a Scientologist, they say, "How do you know that?" I tell them, "I learned it through the study of Scientology".

Digital_Thetan, I understand your heart is in the right place but, dissemination can be accomplished with much more satisfying results if done per policy. Get an OEC volume 6. (OEC - Organizational Executive Course) That's the volume for Division 6 of the Church of Scientology and Vol. 6 goes with Div. 6, Div. 6 being the public division which handles dissemination.

Also, DT don't forget, a person has to want to get better before they'll ever reach for betterment. Most people can't even fathom there's anything wrong with them, much less that there's a technology out there that can REALLY handle it.

Before I sign off here I'd like to say to the rest of you who posted here, If you want to know what Scientology is...Turn off the computer, find your nearest Scientology church and learn for yourself. People today seem to believe all the answers are on the internet. They have no idea how wrong they are. If I had to guess, I'd say that about 95% of EVERYTHING you find on the internet is untrue. (Go ahead smartass, say 'even what you wrote'). But seriously, keep reading all the stuff out there on the www or go find out for yourself.

It's my bet that there are some intelligent people out there you can judge for themselves, unless you're scared of getting brainwashed...Muahahaha

P.S. If you respond to what I posted here don't be surprised if I don't answer for a while, I don't get online very often.

Sincerely,

Another Scientologist http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

dead_people_killer

2006-06-12, 04:23

It sounds like brainwashing and voodoo to me.

Besides, you base your auditing on a lie detector, which is kinda ironic to me.

Abrahim

2006-06-12, 10:55

quote:Originally posted by rms:

Hey digital:

What's it like worshipping a deity that was minvented as a joke only 50 years ago? Don't you feel really, really stupid?

What diety?

volumeaddict

2006-06-12, 13:01

quote:Originally posted by ScioHere:

I will not debate Xenu or Space Opera

Why not? The space opera seems like the least defendable thing, but the core of the religeon. Is this why you don't want to talk about it? You can't/shouldn't pick and choose beliefs from a religeon, and you should be able and willing to defend what sounds like the most important belief. So I'm going to ask you and the thread starter about it anyway.

1. Assuming that the reason Hubbard knows about the space opera is that he remembered it from a past life, how is a memory from a past life discernable from a drug trip, mental illness, or just plain lying?

2. How can you ridicule christian beliefs, such as talking snakes, and virgin births when you believe this? For all you know, Xenu planted a talking snake to throw us off the scent, and impregnated a woman with a alien method that doesn't involve sex.

I would just like to say now, that I am not attempting to insult you or your beliefs, and that I beleive in Scientology about as much as I do in any religeon. As it is impossible to disprove any of this stuff, I will never write it off totally. And that operation snow white, and all the quotes attributed to Hubbard certainly make me a lot more sceptical than I would normally be.

MasterSack13

2006-06-13, 02:32

I guess Digital gave up trying to convert us, he hasn't been on since May 29th

farq

2006-06-13, 03:57

Nah, he got a new username I think it's 'Sciohere' or something

Fundokiller

2006-06-13, 05:26

What in your mind would falsify Scientology?

Digital_Thetan

2006-06-13, 22:40

quote:Originally posted by MasterSack13:

I guess Digital gave up trying to convert us, he hasn't been on since May 29th

haha, I'm not a scientologist, for the record. I just want to go to a Scientology center and own them in person. Once I did my research on $cientology, I proceeded to try to defend it as well as I could in an attempt to figure out which arguments would be most effective.

quote:Originally posted by ScioHere

Digital_Thetan, I understand your heart is in the right place but, dissemination can be accomplished with much more satisfying results if done per policy. Get an OEC volume 6. (OEC - Organizational Executive Course) That's the volume for Division 6 of the Church of Scientology and Vol. 6 goes with Div. 6, Div. 6 being the public division which handles dissemination.

What the hell is this? How much does it cost? Can a non member, such as myself, purchase this?

Scientology pisses me off. Granted, there are success stories, and it would be silly of me to try to reject them. However, there are far more stories of failure than there are stories of success. Scientology is fallible, to say the very least. Furthermore, there are countless accounts of people dying as a result of accepting treatment from the CoS in lieu of modern medicine. Are you repulsed yet?

Now, there are lots of programs out there that don't have a 100% success rate. Even modern medicine fails from time to time. HOWEVER, Scientology is unique in the fact that it's founder had no qualifications whatsoever. ScioHere, I challenge you to show me any evidence of any formal training L. Ron Hubbard had in medicine. There isn't any, yet this guy takes it upon himself anyway to insist that people reject life saving treatment with no rational explanation whatsoever.

There are lots of lunatics, though. However, snakehandlers don't have 400 million dollars in assets (a 1993 figure). In 1993, Scientology was taking in $300 million dollars per year (NY Times citing the IRS (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/ny221093.html)).

Scientology has helped some people, I'm not denying this. However, there is nowhere near a 100% success rate: it's fallible. Furthermore, on many occassions, the teachings of Scientology have been shown to be lethal, and there are many people who paid the ultimate price for joining the church.

Scientology is a pathetic organization founded by an even more pathetic man that puts people in life-threatening danger while taking all of their money. Anyone who actually believes in Scientology obviously has no critical thinking skills whatsoever.

dead_people_killer

2006-06-14, 00:24

Oh, this is rich. If you are serious, I applaud you on your efforts, but cannot say that I would have the conviction to stick to my ruse while dealing with a fucked up subject like this.

Achilles Armour

2006-06-14, 01:02

I think I'll start my own religon only it won't really be a religon. It would be more like a philosophy. The general idea would be that humans don't have the brain capacity (or at least haven't tapped into their minds enough) to truly grasp the concept of god, an afterlife, or reincarnation. If there are any of those things, humans cant possibaly imagine them because they're so beyond a humans capability of thinking and therefore humans shouldn't bother worshipping any religon. The only reason to ever follow a religous belief is if you better your life by it rather than be restricted by it. This would mean that you can still have a religon and believe this philosophy. What do you guys think?

AngryFemme

2006-06-14, 01:35

What dead_people_killer said.

A ruse, indeed. You almost have to stop and consider if every thread you read isn't just an experimental ruse.

slave83b

2006-06-14, 01:40

quote:Originally posted by ScioHere:

... I'd say that about 95% of EVERYTHING you find on the internet is untrue...

Even what you wrote.

aussie_king

2006-06-14, 03:12

Go fucking die yo worthless piece of shit. I have a good amount of tolerence for whatever religions people have but bullshit religions like this I can't stand. The fucking scientology story is a bunch of half assed bullshit I could right better tired and hungover. In short eat shit and die.

Jaryohem063

2006-06-14, 18:47

I was wondering when you'd finally reveal yourself. Bravo DT. You are a true inspiration to us all.

code:<pre>kai is a little bitch</pre>

anarcho-commie

2006-06-16, 07:26

I am only here to express my hate for the original poster. You are a brainwashed, worthless excuse for a human. You fail life. Why? Because this religion of yours is not a religion, it's a goddamn cult. I hope all you fucking scientologists die horrible deaths.

"Fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones."

and fuck the OP. http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

Real.PUA

2006-06-16, 21:49

Google video and xenutv.com

So many great vids on google, you see Scientologists going CRAZY when people picket them, there are also actual high level (OT 7) scientologists that talk about how fucked up the church is. At least a dozen 30min videos of that.

smallpox champion

2006-06-16, 23:31

quote:Originally posted by anarcho-commie:

I am only here to express my hate for the original poster. You are a brainwashed, worthless excuse for a human. You fail life. Why? Because this religion of yours is not a religion, it's a goddamn cult. I hope all you fucking scientologists die horrible deaths.

"Fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones."

and fuck the OP. http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/mad.gif)

Read his last post. He isn't really a Scientologist. He was just researching for a debate in his own weird way.

Original_Pranksta89

2006-06-17, 05:57

Every religon out there has to be taken with a grain of salt, but the idea of immaculate birthes,gods born from trees-skulls-sea foam-etc, is without a doubt easier to swallow than the bullshit the L. Ron Hubbard pulled out of his ass.

1.It's gonna be a cold day in hell before anyone refers to me or my friends as a fucking "Dynamic" being

2.The same goes for telling me i'm a "tone". If you have a problem with me then confront it, don't rate me on a scale

3.I will smoke what i want,when i want,how i want. Weed has for thousands of years been a powerfully religous expierience to many and you can't tell me otherwise

4.E-Meter, a device that measure mental activity. What the hell does that mean, what part of the brain is it measuring and why the hell are they trying to get in my head.

5."Operating Thetan" made me laugh. Apart from it being Telepathy/Telekinesis it sounds like delusional horsecrap

6.The "Aims of Scientology" is basically just them waiting for evolution, personally i hope they hold their breath while doing so

http://www.scientology.org/en_US/religion/index.html

^ Something to giggle at ^

DieSmokin

2006-07-02, 00:38

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Firstly, most other churches have more money than we do. They can afford to subsidize the education of their believers. We can't.

Then why do you have multi-million dollar church's?

Ziggurat

2006-07-02, 17:02

I'm too lazy to read this whole thread so someone may have posted it already:

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

http://theunfunnysequel.ytmnd.com/

All about how scientology is nothing but a money hungry cult, and I appretiate Mr. Scientologist here saying other religions are rediclious talking about virgin births and talking snakes when:

1. He's probably never even read the bible or been a Christian over 10 years.

2. Christianity has been around for thousands of years, scientology not even close :/

3. YOU WORSHIP FUCKING SPACE ALIENS HUFFRAID NIGGER!

Q777

2006-07-02, 20:07

quote:

3. YOU WORSHIP FUCKING SPACE ALIENS HUFFRAID NIGGER![/B]

Scientologist don't worship space aliens. They charge hundreds of thousands of dollars to get the alien souls out of people.

Watch this gif for more fun facts of Scientology http://home.comcast.net/~washedaway/codebot_mirror.gif

[This message has been edited by Q777 (edited 07-11-2006).]

KingofDenmark

2006-07-10, 19:07

1) L Ron Hubbard created scientology as a joke and to make a bit of cash and to prove that people really will believe anything.

2) The people who he started it with took it to whole new levels to make more money - and because of their belief that all morality is pointless they are fond of extortion and murder etc

3) The IRS accepted it as a religion also partly as a joke, but mainly to stop people realising that it actually is in fact unreasonable to believe in absolutely anything.

Q: If someone believed in nothing and thus had no morals, were reasonably smart and wanted cash what would they create?

A: A religion.

^^ He's been quoted as saying that, btw.

Life is awful - because of twats that believe nothing AND twats that believe anything.

</thread>

Garfunkel

2006-07-11, 01:28

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Personally, as a Scientologist, I try to incorporate what Scientology has taught me into my everyday life. An example of this would be drug use. Scientology teaches that drugs corrupt our perception of reality and make us unhappy. As a result, I stopped drinking and using illegal drugs. As a result, I am a happier, more productive person.

pfffft. illegal drugs and alcohol ar the only things that keep me from beating my head against a wall most days.. They dont corrupt your perception of realtiy; they alter it for the better.

midgetbasketball

2006-07-11, 10:18

A scientologist!?

Gettem Totse

Is it true that every low member has no money and every high memer has shit loads

1|1

2|0 woah trippy man

Also what does xenus cock look like?

and you say that it is bvelieve alble with an alien prophet

Fuckwit

sybil

2006-07-11, 11:00

As far as I've seen this guy himself has not shown any substantiel proof. He has just been trying to discredit everybody by tell them that they have to proof their point, but he has not proven his point in any way or form.

Abrahim

2006-07-11, 11:01

quote:Originally posted by midgetbasketball:

A scientologist!?

Gettem Totse

Is it true that every low member has no money and every high memer has shit loads

1|1

2|0 woah trippy man

Also what does xenus cock look like?

and you say that it is bvelieve alble with an alien prophet

Fuckwit

lol it was like the blood alcohol levels rose as you kept going. Hi my name is abrjkfo ka BREK YO !

sybil

2006-07-11, 12:19

And you said that you are happy and lots of your friends who arn't followers of the COS arn't as happy as you.

I'm not a follower of the COS and I'm happy. Conclusion: you are weak of mind and you need something to hold onto, you need somebody to guide you, you can't thing for yourself.

I believe that if you are strong, confident enough, you don't need any religion to hold onto and you just believe in yourself. I am perfectly happy with everything I know, without Scientology.

jb_mcbean

2006-07-11, 13:57

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I've been a scientologist for the last 8 years, and let me tell you, those last 8 years have been an amazing journey. The teachings of L. Ron Hubbard have helped me improve myself in so many ways, it's amazing, and there's nothing I'd like more than to share that joy with you.

However, throughout those same last 8 years I have discovered the misconceptions people have about Scientology. Despite my valiant defense of Scientology, people confront me with ridiculous claims about my beliefs to this day. As a new member of this forum, I'd like to address any questions or comments you guys have regarding Scientology and the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard.

-DT-

I have a question Mr Scientologist. Please stop me if I'm being a bit too forward, but may I ask what is the worst fear of every Scientologist? Also if someone happened to be in some sort of religious war against Scientology, how could they exploit it?

Abrahim

2006-07-11, 14:03

quote:Originally posted by jb_mcbean:

I have a question Mr Scientologist. Please stop me if I'm being a bit too forward, but may I ask what is the worst fear of every Scientologist? Also if someone happened to be in some sort of religious war against Scientology, how could they exploit it?

According to some sources fears of scientologists could go from:

Fear of being implanted or inhabited with negative alien spirits to fearing the coming of the Marcabian invasion force and losing the war to them and being enslaved forever.

jb_mcbean

2006-07-11, 14:08

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

According to some sources fears of scientologists could go from:

Fear of being implanted or inhabited with negative alien spirits to fearing the coming of the Marcabian invasion force and losing the war to them and being enslaved forever.

I propose an amnesty from our current state of Jihad. Perhaps it is time for a temporary alliance. Let it be known that if the name of Prizism is belittled hereafter by any person, though, that they will suffer the punishment of ages, all who read have been warned.

[This message has been edited by jb_mcbean (edited 07-11-2006).]

Albatross

2006-07-11, 15:56

Scientology is no more rediculous than any other religion, the only major difference is that Scientology hasn't had thousands of years to dig it's claws into civilization so that most people are too fucking brainwashed to notice.

ilbastardoh

2006-07-13, 04:44

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

Like college textbooks, the teachings of Scientology cost money to produce and publish. As such, we can't simply give them away. However, I'm sure if you stopped at your local Scientology center they'd be happy to let you read (but not keep) some of the books there.

Universities cost money if you're a dumb ass, if you work hard even with moderate intelligence you can get a scholarship, even a government grant. I make money to go to school and I'm no smarter than any other average person. I have a 108 I.Q. it's not special by any means, slightly above average. Too bad your church doesn't pay you...

ilbastardoh

2006-07-13, 05:21

WTF are these auditing techniques can you describe them or are you just saying that they work? If you're into whack cults join the church of the subgenius at least they admit they're a whacko cult

Speed_rebel

2006-07-13, 06:13

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

comments you guys have regarding Scientology and the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard.

-DT-

wasint he a science ficton writer???

gomp

2006-07-13, 15:43

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu

the reson he hasent heard about xenu is because he isetn a operating thetan lvl 3 yet. but that link will tell you a bunch about xenu.

I would advise Digital theten not to read it, because according to your religiouse leaders if you read or learn about this befor you have been audited to that level you will die, this is why the ones who know dont tell you.

every one else who has not been brainwashed feel free to read it

gomp

2006-07-13, 16:07

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

What the hell is this? How much does it cost? Can a non member, such as myself, purchase this?

Scientology pisses me off. Granted, there are success stories, and it would be silly of me to try to reject them. However, there are far more stories of failure than there are stories of success. Scientology is fallible, to say the very least. Furthermore, there are countless accounts of people dying as a result of accepting treatment from the CoS in lieu of modern medicine. Are you repulsed yet?

Now, there are lots of programs out there that don't have a 100% success rate. Even modern medicine fails from time to time. HOWEVER, Scientology is unique in the fact that it's founder had no qualifications whatsoever. ScioHere, I challenge you to show me any evidence of any formal training L. Ron Hubbard had in medicine. There isn't any, yet this guy takes it upon himself anyway to insist that people reject life saving treatment with no rational explanation whatsoever.

There are lots of lunatics, though. However, snakehandlers don't have 400 million dollars in assets (a 1993 figure). In 1993, Scientology was taking in $300 million dollars per year (NY Times citing the IRS (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/essays/ny221093.html)).

Scientology has helped some people, I'm not denying this. However, there is nowhere near a 100% success rate: it's fallible. Furthermore, on many occassions, the teachings of Scientology have been shown to be lethal, and there are many people who paid the ultimate price for joining the church.

Scientology is a pathetic organization founded by an even more pathetic man that puts people in life-threatening danger while taking all of their money. Anyone who actually believes in Scientology obviously has no critical thinking skills whatsoever.

brilliant

the reson that members of the religion do not question it is very interesting. from the start the yare told that people are basically good. By the time they have there first audit they believe that if they are critasising some thing that means they are trying to separate them selfs from it because they dont want to hurt that group or those people any more, because they are a good person.

so when they question scieontology, the next thing they ask is what they have done to hurt there fellow scientologist, and will usually not ask any other member of the group their questions.

basically the brain washing starts early on, and they go to there first audit thinking they are in dire need of help, donateing large sums of money to get that help.

and members brainwash friends and family, co workers and people on the street. a religion designed to make money, and to make more members.

now that hubbard is dead I wonder where all of this money go's most I am sure gets dumped into the meager paychecks of the hardcore members who work for the "church"(usually around 50 bucks a week, not to bad considering they live in dorms and have every thing else taken care of for them)

but with out there master guideing them these brainwashed masses will continue with the prime direction, get donations, "help" more people.

xenu help us all

Florida Snow

2006-07-14, 11:40

Digital thetan seems to be back tracking in his defense against this bullshit life-scam. The fact that corruption has been well documented within the top ranking officials of scientology not only evidents, but proves that this is a bunk and even fishy organization.

Isaac hayes, the voice actor for the character "chef" from south park, was involuntarily terminated from this job by a fellow scientologist, and after suffering a stroke in january, has not been seen since. He has endured years of religious parody by Trey parker and matt stone, but after the airing of the episode "Coming out of the clost" which was a heavy debunking of scientology, he seems to go back on many fine years of work in this fine show.

Many more documented cases of fraud and malpractice have been made, as stated above.

Digital Thetan, you sir, are a ruse.

Florida Snow

2006-07-14, 11:45

quote:I was emotionally addicted to marijuana at one point in my life. I tried going cold turkey, but I couldn't drop the habit. Through four auditing sessions, I managed to completely drop the habit. Now, which seems more likely to you: I was able to drop the habit as a result of the therapy I received in the auditing session, or, for reasons unbeknownst to anyone, I was able to break the habit. Occam's razor, my friend.[/B]

This is pathetic, claiming that scientology alone was the only way for you to quit a fairly un-addictive chemical is pure insanity. Simple Drug education classes and deep thinking about ones life can do that, without a "mandatory 200 dollar donation.'

Not to mention most people can up and drop marijuana with out any classes of any sort.

sybil

2006-07-14, 13:17

quote:Originally posted by Florida Snow:

This is pathetic, claiming that scientology alone was the only way for you to quit a fairly un-addictive chemical is pure insanity. Simple Drug education classes and deep thinking about ones life can do that, without a "mandatory 200 dollar donation.'

Not to mention most people can up and drop marijuana with out any classes of any sort.

Indeed, drugs is all about the state of mind of a person. A weak minded person will really get hooked on it, and will not be able to get rid of it without help, ofcourse this is only what he tells himself in his mind. Conclusion, the person who said he was addicted, is weak.

Mellow_Fellow

2006-07-15, 16:12

Why are scientologists such fucking retards?

Why do you choose to believe the bullshit proported by a con-man, who was desperate for money and severely fucked up in many ways. He believed that "starting a religion is the best way to make money" - looks like the "faithful" have proved him right.

buttthrax

2006-07-16, 02:38

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

L. Ron Hubbard didn't make absurd claims about talking snakes and virgin births like the authors of other religious texts did.

Hahahhahahah. Cause the rocket powered DC-8 volcano Xenu shit makes so much more sense.

Pyronos

2006-07-17, 18:28

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com

Pwnt? I believe so.

Rust

2006-07-17, 18:32

quote:Originally posted by buttthrax:

Hahahhahahah. Cause the rocket powered DC-8 volcano Xenu shit makes so much more sense.

You're right in that regard, but talking burning bushes though, that makes Christianity the clear winner.

Bipolar Rocket

2006-07-19, 01:11

Have you read L. Ron Hubbard's biography? If so, what's your opinion on him and the bet he made with his friend that he could create a fake religion? This did take place at a bar, but I've always wondered if an actual Scientologist resented it.

[This message has been edited by Bipolar Rocket (edited 07-19-2006).]

vehicular mansLAUGHTER

2006-07-19, 06:48

quote:Originally posted by Boblong:

Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I fully believe that all the teachings of Scientology are true, because I've applied the teachings myself and expereinced the benefits. If you are genuinely interested in exposing yourself to Scientology (and the associtated benefits) I'd recommend picking up a copy of Hubbard's Dianetics.

-DT-

Improvement in your life is not evidence of correctness of beliefs, for instance if I stopped using cocaine because someone told me I would turn into a chicken and I stopped my health would improve. That does not however mean that he is right. The same thing applies in your case. Your life improving means not that it Scientology is correct but that it is the correct religion for you, and makes you happier or whatever other improvement it causes.

Regardless of that why does Scientology require money to learn the truth? Can you provide any of the writings and tapes Scientology is based on?

And lastly could an admin please compare IPs on this person?

you wouldn't happen to be THE bob long wopuld you?

Boblong

2006-07-21, 02:33

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

you wouldn't happen to be THE bob long wopuld you?

The bob long?

random_jew

2006-07-25, 16:56

The hatred i have for this "religion" is so extreme i will say only one thing,

Why don't you just kill yourself.

Charchars

2006-07-26, 04:01

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Thetan:

I've been a scientologist for the last 8 years, and let me tell you, those last 8 years have been an amazing journey. The teachings of L. Ron Hubbard have helped me improve myself in so many ways, it's amazing, and there's nothing I'd like more than to share that joy with you.

However, throughout those same last 8 years I have discovered the misconceptions people have about Scientology. Despite my valiant defense of Scientology, people confront me with ridiculous claims about my beliefs to this day. As a new member of this forum, I'd like to address any questions or comments you guys have regarding Scientology and the teachings of L. Ron Hubbard.

-DT-

ok, being a scientologist, answer me these questions.

1.Why would you believe a man who at his beginings wrote about science fiction, and had a job doing it?

2. how would you be able to trap a "soul", I mean, dont they exist on another plane of reality?

3. why do you pay to have the "church" help you, why not just read the stupid fuck book your whole "religion" is based on? i thought that was supposed to help.

4.why doesnt xenu tunnel out of his "jail", i mean he's had all this time, and where is he being captive?

5.why dont you trust phychology? if you did, wouldn't your beleifs look more plausable?