My Email to GodHatesFags.com

[Spike Spiegel]

I found the site GodHatesFags.com to be so amusing, that I sent them an email that they cannot answer, that defies their beliefs, I will inform everyone on their response (if they ever respond to me). here is what I said to them:

"Your website revolves around the bible to look for answers in your everyday lives. But I have a question for you.

If God is perfect, then why did he need to create "commandments" to put control upon humanity, why could he not create a utopia in the first place?

Why did he need to create these "fags" that you hate so much, then tell you all to despise them. To me, that type of God sounds depraved and sadistic.

Before you make objectional statements, perhaps you should consider the legitamacy of the subject in nature,... the bible.

I hope to hear back from someone regarding this e-mail, someone who is logical based on facts, not blind faith."

[Some Old Drunk Guy]

AWWW SHIT YOU OWNED THEM!

[voodoonirvana]

Not bad, I would advise going a little more into detail, but Im excited to hear the response.

[Slash_1001]

What if God is indeed perfect to his/her self. Maybe your ideas of perfect differ from what God knows is perfect. I duno i dont really care i just felt like taking their side.

[prozak_jack]

They're just going to call you a fag and "condemn" you to burn in hell.

That's how inbred retards work.

[Mike Dogg]

Gee, I wonder how many of those e-mails they get a week . . .

I wrote them something similar once, but I never got a reply back, so I doubt you will either.

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by Slash_1001:

What if God is indeed perfect to his/her self. Maybe your ideas of perfect differ from what God knows is perfect. I duno i dont really care i just felt like taking their side.

Even if my ideas of "perfect" differ from what "God knows is perfect", the fact that my "imperfect" views exist, prove him to be imperfect.

quote:what God knows is perfect.

if so, how sad it is that he hides from his children.

[voodoonirvana]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

if so, how sad it is that he hides from his children.

I like how you think.

[Lemox]

God gave us free will, but its flawed

[l33t_looser]

God created us the way we are and the world the way he is because he wants people that TRULY love him. He does not some robot synthetic love, he wants actual love.

Reconsider starting an argument, and maybe you should pick up a bible?

edit: not even God himself can alter freewill, he even says so. So fag's are not by god's will, but flesh desire.

[This message has been edited by l33t_looser (edited 05-29-2006).]

[KRJ]

Oh christ,LOL I had a woman on my LiveJournal a while back harassing people on my log with that very same name,no joke.

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by Lemox:

God gave us free will, but its flawed



Free will? If free will is true, then God is imperfect. Instead of believing in free will, why not believe in Hope,... Hope for what can and will be.

[Slash_1001]

I dont see how your views make God not perfect. Thats like saying that everything I do is perfect, but because someone who has no real effect on my life isn't perfect that I can no longer be. When what you or anyone else believes, or does for that matter, can alter what God does then and only then can God be flawed. BUT because God is perfect he can never be flawed. Even if he was, the thing that he did that changed him would be the new perfect.

(Refering to God as he just because)

[Crippled Lucifer]

Eh...

They're going to reply with some crap about judging/refining mankind with hopes to make us more godlike.

They find a rationalization for everything. Just leave them be, man. Let pigs lie in their filth, as the saying goes.

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by l33t_looser:

God created us the way we are and the world the way he is because he wants people that TRULY love him. He does not some robot synthetic love, he wants actual love.

Reconsider starting an argument, and maybe you should pick up a bible?

edit: not even God himself can alter freewill, he even says so. So fag's are not by god's will, but flesh desire.





Why would he want people that truly love him? isn't that a sign of emotional weakness? a.k.a. imperfectness?

A perfect being is complete. A perfect being would not need to create "lower beings" in an attempt of "true" love.

quote:and maybe you should pick up a bible?

I consider the bible as a historical refence only. I base my beliefs and statements on the environment around me. Anything else, without actual fact to it, would be foolish to do so. (Although I do admire the teachings of Christ, and Ghandi)

[Slash_1001]

Yeah dude i dont want you to think im all gungho about this god stuff im just bored and felt like debating.

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by Slash_1001:

I dont see how your views make God not perfect. Thats like saying that everything I do is perfect, but because someone who has no real effect on my life isn't perfect that I can no longer be. When what you or anyone else believes, or does for that matter, can alter what God does then and only then can God be flawed. BUT because God is perfect he can never be flawed. Even if he was, the thing that he did that changed him would be the new perfect.

(Refering to God as he just because)

In response to your post:

quote:

When what you or anyone else believes, or does for that matter, can alter what God does then and only then can God be flawed.

In my existing, (to my belief) God is flawed.

If God created us, AND gave us freewill, then he made a mistake. Now IF from the beginning to the end, God knows what will happen, the very fact that he NEEDED to create us, makes him incomplete, and therefore imperfect.

quote:Even if he was, the thing that he did that changed him would be the new perfect.

The new perfect? does that make the OLD perfect still perfect? Why did he need to create a New perfect? is he imperfect? lol...

[patmagroin]

God is so perfect that he can do things that would seemingly make him imperfect (according to human logic) and still be perfect.

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:

God is so perfect that he can do things that would seemingly make him imperfect (according to human logic) and still be perfect.

Like serial killers... since they kill people with "reasons beyond recognition", they are perfect, even though we see them as "evil", or "disturbed".

I'm in a debating mood for some reason, sorry if I infer.

[l33t_looser]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

I consider the bible as a historical refence only. I base my beliefs and statements on the environment around me. Anything else, without actual fact to it, would be foolish to do so. (Although I do admire the teachings of Christ, and Ghandi)

Why wouldnt he? people have a hard time coaxing that thought, however...

God created us in his image.

emotions too.

that includes love, hate, greed, anger, fear.

yes if anything the teachings of christ are wonderfull, and he teaches a very good way to live life. its perfect to raise a family on, but i belive he is real and all that. even if he is not then i have wasted nothing.

the bible is a good read even from a non religous pov

edit: prob not gonna read the thread anymore because im lazy, if you would like to collaberate more then email me

[email protected]

[This message has been edited by l33t_looser (edited 05-29-2006).]

[patmagroin]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

Like serial killers... since they kill people with "reasons beyond recognition", they are perfect, even though we see them as "evil", or "disturbed".

I'm in a debating mood for some reason, sorry if I infer.

We're not talking about serial killers who are crazy and believe their actions are good. we're talking about the concept of perfection. When something is perfect, NOTHING can make it imperfect. Perfection transcends logic.

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:

We're not talking about serial killers who are crazy and believe their actions are good. we're talking about the concept of perfection. When something is perfect, NOTHING can make it imperfect. Perfection transcends logic.

By our existing, and doubting the "Allmighty", there is imperfection being as we are the (supposed) descendants or "children" of God. Logic/Knowledge = Perfection.

[patmagroin]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

By our existing, and doubting the "Allmighty", there is imperfection being as we are the (supposed) descendants or "children" of God. Logic/Knowledge = Perfection.

Again, you're trying to use logic to argue God's perfection. God transcends logic. God is able to create imperfection and still remain perfect.

Logic/knowledge = perfection??? who says

[Sponsored Link]

Aww shit son!

(idk)

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:

Again, you're trying to use logic to argue God's perfection. God transcends logic. God is able to create imperfection and still remain perfect.

Logic/knowledge = perfection??? who says

God is unable to create imperfection and still remain perfect. If this were so, then why did he feel the need to create us humans? And don't say "it goes beyond our knowledge" because if this were so, he would be imperfect for creating us and not giving us the "full story".

quote:Logic/knowledge = perfection??? who says

The ones who are alive. The more knowledge you have, the more information you have on the subject, and the more informed you are, the better off you are in regards. Therefore, Knowledge = Perfection.

[Slash_1001]

He created us cauz he felt like it? What we do has no effect on him being perfect or not.

[HandOfZek]

OP is going to hell.

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by Slash_1001:

He created us cauz he felt like it? What we do has no effect on him being perfect or not.

If that were so,.. what's to stop us from doing whatever we want? literally... after all, whatever we do, it will be his fault for creating us in the first place, therefore whatever we do, is negated by him being perfect.

[patmagroin]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:



God is unable to create imperfection and still remain perfect. If this were so, then why did he feel the need to create us humans? And don't say "it goes beyond our knowledge" because if this were so, he would be imperfect for creating us and not giving us the "full story".



The ones who are alive. The more knowledge you have, the more information you have on the subject, and the more informed you are, the better off you are in regards. Therefore, Knowledge = Perfection.

I think you're having trouble grasping the concept of "perfection". You also seem to be having trouble grasping the idea that logic is not the highest authority in the universe. You keep trying to use logic to denounce the concept of God, who is perfect. If God is perfect, he transcends logic, so if/then statements don't apply to God.

knowledge = perfection

perhaps

logic = perfection

why?

[patmagroin]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

If that were so,.. what's to stop us from doing whatever we want? literally... after all, whatever we do, it will be his fault for creating us in the first place, therefore whatever we do, is negated by him being perfect.

Lets try a neutral approach at this.

imagine a God. Imagine that God as being perfect. With that in consideration, could that perfect God create something that was imperfect while still remaining perfect Himself? If you say he could not, then he is not perfect. But since we already established that he IS perfect, God could do that.

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:

Lets try a neutral approach at this.

imagine a God. Imagine that God as being perfect. With that in consideration, could that perfect God create something that was imperfect while still remaining perfect Himself? If you say he could not, then he is not perfect. But since we already established that he IS perfect, God could do that.

lol, we have not established that he is perfect,...lol, I will be back on in a couple of hours, but I got to get some sleep,.. i'll talk more about this later.

[Kleenex]

Could God microwave a burrito so hot, not even he could eat it?

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:

I think you're having trouble grasping the concept of "perfection". You also seem to be having trouble grasping the idea that logic is not the highest authority in the universe. You keep trying to use logic to denounce the concept of God, who is perfect. If God is perfect, he transcends logic, so if/then statements don't apply to God.

knowledge = perfection

perhaps

logic = perfection

why?

Pat, Pat, Pat, humans (most) use logic FROM knowledge. Perfection, is being complete, whole. If God transends logic, then how cruel of him to leave us gravelling in the dust, while he sits in a throne. Quite cruel and vindictive indeed. Religion is only used to control the masses in the form of a "higher being" that no "Human" can understand.

(although the pope does for some reason, and uses it to wield the vatican's corrupt hands for monetary gain, and control of the masses)(if you don't believe me, look up the history of the Spanish Inquisition, and the vatican's use of "excommunication" to threaten people who question their faith.)

Knowledge is Power my friend, it's only up to you on how you use / perceive it. [/damn you "i" before "e" except after "c" laws]

[This message has been edited by Spike Spiegel (edited 05-29-2006).]

[patmagroin]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

Pat, Pat, Pat, humans (most) use logic FROM knowledge. Perfection, is being complete, whole. If God transends logic, then how cruel of him to leave us gravelling in the dust, while he sits in a throne. Quite cruel and vindictive indeed. Religion is only used to control the masses in the form of a "higher being" that no "Human" can understand.

(although the pope does for some reason, and uses it to wield the vatican's corrupt hands for monetary gain, and control of the masses)(if you don't believe me, look up the history of the Spanish Inquisition, and the vatican's use of "excommunication" to threaten people who question their faith.)

Knowledge is Power my friend, it's only up to you on how you use / percieve it.



Yes, knowledge and logic is great and all on the human level.

About your statement on how God is cruel if he left us bounded by logic while he isn't. Do you consider there ANY possibility that you are making a subjective judgement and there might be something more to the picture that would make God's actions not so cruel?

anyways, heres a question for you. Do you think perfection is possible? You are saying that God is not perfect because "Y". How, then, WOULD God possibly be perfect? By not doing "Y"? But if he can't do "Y" and still remain perfect, then he is not perfect. That is basically what you are saying. So do you think perfection is possible?

if the "y" confuses you just replace it with something like "molesting a young boy".

Personally, i don't really have a stance on it. But if something WERE perfect, then it would be able to do anything (even things contradictory to logic).



[This message has been edited by patmagroin (edited 05-29-2006).]

[Slash_1001]

What if it is we have no free will. Everything we do has been predetermined by God. Even if we do one thing then switch to doing something else at the last moment. Say blowing up the world, then god knew that was going to happen and allowed it. Hence everything we do has been preplanned by God and he has no flaws.

[anal.cunt]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

lol, we have not established that he is perfect,...lol, I will be back on in a couple of hours, but I got to get some sleep,.. i'll talk more about this later.



It was established in that virtual philosophical universe pat created.

[Sinny]

Me thinks this is in the wrong place..

Religious board perhaps?

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:

About your statement on how God is cruel if he left us bounded by logic while he isn't. Do you consider there ANY possibility that you are making a subjective judgement and there might be something more to the picture that would make God's actions not so cruel?

Yes, it is possible that I may not "see" the whole picture. BUT, the very fact that you or I do not see the whole picture, and that this causes us pain, (in which God (in the bible) will subject us to if we do not believe in him by sending us to hell) shows he is imperfect.

Perfection IS possible,... you know how? By having no conflictions in one's view of existence. If God created us to enjoy life, and this "existence" as a gift,... why is hell needed and referenced to "keep us in line"? Where did God go when Eve was tempted by the fruits of Eden? Why did God allow different religions, and not just one?

Why did God allow for the creation of Pain, Suffering, Hell, Satan, the very things he tells us to refrain from?



[This message has been edited by Spike Spiegel (edited 05-29-2006).]

[patmagroin]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

Yes, it is possible that I may not "see" the whole picture. BUT, the very fact that you or I do not see the whole picture, and that this causes us pain, (in which God (in the bible) will subject us to if we do not believe in him by sending us to hell) shows he is imperfect.

Perfection IS possible,... you know how? By having no conflictions in one's view of existence. If God created us to enjoy life, and this "existence" as a gift,... why is hell needed and referenced to "keep us in line"? Where did God go when Eve was tempted by the fruits of Eden? Why did God allow different religions, and not just one?

Why did God allow for the creation of Pain, Suffering, Hell, Satan, the very things he tells us to refrain from?



Ok, so you're saying that God is imperfect because of the conditions he left us to live in. And God would be perfect if he had made it so that there was no conflict in the universe?

But then wouldn't God still be imperfect, in that case? Since he would not be able to create conflict, while at the same time remain perfect?

Again, you're trying to use logic on something that supposedly transcends logic.

[PopN Fresh]

If god does exist his only real mistake was our creation as we are too smart for our own good and as smart as we may be we will always be an ignorant race whos creation will lead to the destruction of all life on this planet..... I find it better to believe of nature or time as the real god maybe not a concious infallible being but nonetheless supreme to us and most likely created us. My only question is why do people hate gays? They don't hurt anyone. They don't force their lifestyles on other people (like these christian nuts at that website). If these people are truly going to burn in hell or where ever why do they choose to judge them in life if they believe god will punish them after? I think it ultimately boils down to, people should just mind their own buisness.

If your not hurting anyone do What ever you want.

[PopN Fresh]

quote:Originally posted by l33t_looser:

God created us the way we are and the world the way he is because he wants people that TRULY love him. He does not some robot synthetic love, he wants actual love.

Reconsider starting an argument, and maybe you should pick up a bible?

edit: not even God himself can alter freewill, he even says so. So fag's are not by god's will, but flesh desire



You say god cannot alter freewill yet christians will say to non christians that they will burn in hell as they have done to me numerous times. So if god wants us to CHOOSE to love him why does it matter what religion we are, why must I be christian to go to heaven? The christian belief that god gave us freewill is more of an illusion. If we are if concerned about our fates we are forced to believe. To say you have freewill, then say "if you make a different choice your going to burn in hell" thats not freewill.

[patmagroin]

quote:Originally posted by PopN Fresh:

If god does exist his only real mistake was our creation as we are too smart for our own good and as smart as we may be we will always be an ignorant race whos creation will lead to the destruction of all life on this planet..... I find it better to believe of nature or time as the real god maybe not a concious infallible being but nonetheless supreme to us and most likely created us. My only question is why do people hate gays? They don't hurt anyone. They don't force their lifestyles on other people (like these christian nuts at that website). If these people are truly going to burn in hell or where ever why do they choose to judge them in life if they believe god will punish them after? I think it ultimately boils down to, people should just mind their own buisness.

If your not hurting anyone do What ever you want.

we already went over this....

[RogueEagle91]

that made me smile.

those people are a good pedestal on which to lay my religious disgruntlement. why do they feel it so necessary to a) shout their beliefs everywhere they turn and b) be so ignorant to their own religion. last i remembered, god was forgiving. so, why should they care how people live?

[Atomical]

You're such a loser. I called them.

http://harddrivecaddy.com/temp/pranks/audio/fredjrshotdaughter.mp3

[jsaxton14]

Uh, you realize that GodHatesFags.com is satire, right?

[Rust]

^ Actually, they are not.

The have been interviewed in major news outlets; they do believe what they write. They are ones that go to the furneral of fallen soldiers to spread their propaganda, and praise god for the deaths of the soldiers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhatesfags

[Crippled Lucifer]

Perfection is a concept relative to perception. Some assert that the universe is limitless. Why? Because its size is beyond comprehension, we can assign no dimensions to it. The same goes with perfection. Perfection transcends logic, simply because that thing or entity must be so "good" that it stands beyond comparison to all other things, meaning that it is not necessarily perfect, but the value of greatness which it possesses transcends comparibility.

Duuuh. Everyone knows that.

[Abrahim]

Many Christians tell me they believe all sins, absolutely all sins are forgiven if you believe in God and Jesus Christ as the savior who died for your sins. So thats all sins except not believing in God or Jesus as the savior who died for your sins. So according to those Christians, who I asked specifically and intensively, they may actually hate "Fags" but by making those statements, a "Fag" who believes Jesus is their Lord and Savior and believes in God will get saved, as compared to a person who doesn't believe Jesus is their Lord or Savior (JUDEZ!)

[cracked_anarchist]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

If God is perfect, then why did he need to create "commandments" to put control upon humanity, why could he not create a utopia in the first place?

He DID CREATE A UTOPIA! (read genesis, we fucked it up) the commandments were to guide us, because we had free will.

quote:

Why did he need to create these "fags" that you hate so much, then tell you all to despise them. To me, that type of God sounds depraved and sadistic.

Again, free will. Being a 'fag' as you so put it it nothing more than a sin, no worse or better than stealing. The only reason it could be considered worse is that the sin is a lifestyle.

I don't codone thir actions, but you have to admin their videos can be pretty funny, like a low budget southpark movie.

Actually, god loves all people, he just doesn't like the fact that they're homosexual, because it is a sin, and basing your life around a sin is bad in his eyes.

[This message has been edited by cracked_anarchist (edited 05-30-2006).]

[Abrahim]

Because the anus is for poo poo, not for sticking in pee pees.

[dearestnight_falcon]

Here's the response you're likely to get

- Burn in hell fag enabler

[Spntneous]

the bible wasn't faxed down from heaven to man. Read it and write down everytime you read something like "gay people should be illegal by law"

[Spike Spiegel]

quote:Originally posted by Crippled Lucifer:

Perfection is a concept relative to perception. Some assert that the universe is limitless. Why? Because its size is beyond comprehension, we can assign no dimensions to it. The same goes with perfection. Perfection transcends logic, simply because that thing or entity must be so "good" that it stands beyond comparison to all other things, meaning that it is not necessarily perfect, but the value of greatness which it possesses transcends comparibility.

Duuuh. Everyone knows that.

NO. If this is so, then how CRUEL of god to create this existense, and leave us out of the loophole of knowledge.

When you say "Perfection transends Logic", you are basically saying, "Sense I don't understand it, it is beyond knowledge." That type of thinking is what enslaves people, and is incorrect.

God is not perfect because he allowed pain, suffering, and you and me to exist, and ask for love in return. Please prove me wrong with facts, not "it is beyond knowledge".

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

I found the site GodHatesFags.com to be so amusing, that I sent them an email that they cannot answer, that defies their beliefs, I will inform everyone on their response (if they ever respond to me). here is what I said to them:

"Your website revolves around the bible to look for answers in your everyday lives. But I have a question for you.

If God is perfect, then why did he need to create "commandments" to put control upon humanity, why could he not create a utopia in the first place?

Why did he need to create these "fags" that you hate so much, then tell you all to despise them. To me, that type of God sounds depraved and sadistic.

Before you make objectional statements, perhaps you should consider the legitamacy of the subject in nature,... the bible.

I hope to hear back from someone regarding this e-mail, someone who is logical based on facts, not blind faith."

People have asked that a trazillion times to refute an imaginary God whilst the real God is what enables them to ask questions like that.

[Vashthe3rd]

quote:Originally posted by voodoonirvana:

I like how you think.

I second this.

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

NO. If this is so, then how CRUEL of god to create this existense, and leave us out of the loophole of knowledge.

When you say "Perfection transends Logic", you are basically saying, "Sense I don't understand it, it is beyond knowledge." That type of thinking is what enslaves people, and is incorrect.

God is not perfect because he allowed pain, suffering, and you and me to exist, and ask for love in return. Please prove me wrong with facts, not "it is beyond knowledge".

God is not perfect because you're not happy with the world and universe?

[Abrahim]

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm

Homosexuality in the Bible

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. -- Leviticus 18:22

Genesis

"And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him."

What did Ham do? Did he just look at his naked father or was there something more to it than that? Some commentators have suggested that Ham committed homosexual rape on his drunken father, and that this was why Ham's descendants were eternally punished with slavery. 9:24

This verse doesn't say what the Sodomites did to make them such exceedingly great sinners, though most bible believers equate "Sodomite" with homosexual. (But see Ezekiel 16:49, which claims the sins of Sodom were pride, gluttony, sloth, greed, and failure to help the poor.) 13:13

The two angels that visit Lot wash their feet, eat, and are sexually irresistible to Sodomites. 19:1-5

God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah. 19:4-5, 24-25

What did Sarah see? 21:9

Leviticus

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

Deuteronomy

Women are not to wear men's clothing -- it's an "abomination unto the Lord." 22:5

God says not be bring any whore, sodomite, or dog into the house of the Lord. For "these things are an abomination to the Lord." Sodomites and dogs are biblical names for homosexuals. 23:17-18

1 Samuel

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

"Jonathan ... delighted much in David." 19:2

Saul is angered by his son's homosexual affair with David and says, "do not I know that thou has chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion of thy mother's nakedness?" 20:30

David and Jonathan "kissed one another, and wept with one another" when they parted for the last time. 20:41

2 Samuel

David says to Jonathan: "very pleasant has thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of woman." 1:26

1 Kings

God shows his homophobia by calling gay people "sodomites" and their sexual relations "abominations." 14:24

Asa "did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD" by expelling homosexuals (or "sodomites", as the good book calls them). 15:12

Jehoshaphat "did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord" and "took" the homosexuals (sodomites) "out of the land," or as the RSV says, "he exterminated" them. 22:43, 46

2 Kings

Josiah, with God's approval, broke down the houses of the sodomites. 23:7

Isaiah

"They declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul!"

The biblical god just doesn't seem to care much for homosexuals. And he gets especially upset when "they hide it not." 3:9

Joel

They "have given a boy for a harlot." 3:3

Romans

With his usual intolerance, Paul condemns homosexuals (including lesbians). This is the only clear reference to lesbians in the Bible. 1:26-28

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

1 Corinthians

Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10

1 Timothy

Homosexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included on the list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

2 Timothy

Iin the last days people will become evil, "without natural affection." Fundamentalist say that this refers to homosexuals. 3:3

Jude

God sent "eternal fire" on the people of Sodom and Gomorrah for "going after strange flesh." 7-8

Revelation

"The hundred and forty and four thousand ... which were not defiled with women"

Are the 144,000 men that are "not defiled by women" homosexuals? Are only gay men to be saved? 14:1-4

[hespeaks]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:



Yes, knowledge and logic is great and all on the human level.

About your statement on how God is cruel if he left us bounded by logic while he isn't. Do you consider there ANY possibility that you are making a subjective judgement and there might be something more to the picture that would make God's actions not so cruel?

anyways, heres a question for you. Do you think perfection is possible? You are saying that God is not perfect because "Y". How, then, WOULD God possibly be perfect? By not doing "Y"? But if he can't do "Y" and still remain perfect, then he is not perfect. That is basically what you are saying. So do you think perfection is possible?

if the "y" confuses you just replace it with something like "molesting a young boy".

Personally, i don't really have a stance on it. But if something WERE perfect, then it would be able to do anything (even things contradictory to logic).



We use logic as a way of acquiring knowledge. Without logic "knowledge" would be unintelligible. If "God" is beyond logic, than he is unknowable. If he is unknowable than you can't bring on the conclusion that he's "perfect" or not. Might as well believe that a Flying Spaghetti Monster who created the world but you can't prove it because its beyond logic. Besides what do you mean by "perfect"? If u mean "being entirely without fault or defect" than answer me this, if he is omniscent (N.B im referring to Christian God) he can't change his own future that means he's not omnipotent. He might of prevented evil and still preserve free will if he's omnipotent. As for omnibevolent, the christian God might be as Thomas Jefferson said "a being of terrific character-cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust". "God" is himself a contradiction of logic and therefore u have no rationale of assuming such a being is perfect or even could exist.



[This message has been edited by hespeaks (edited 07-19-2006).]

[Spungo]

You should have asked how big Fred's cock is.

[Cooking with Zyklon B]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:

if so, how sad it is that he hides from his children.

Wouldn't you after they did that horrid stuff to his son?

...according to the bible.

[Boblong]

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

God is not perfect because you're not happy with the world and universe?



In the traditional sense of god as a benevolent all powerful being, what he said makes perfect sense.

[ADogg]

quote:Originally posted by l33t_looser:

God created us the way we are and the world the way he is because he wants people that TRULY love him. He does not some robot synthetic love, he wants actual love.

Reconsider starting an argument, and maybe you should pick up a bible?

edit: not even God himself can alter freewill, he even says so. So fag's are not by god's will, but flesh desire.



You sadistic fucker, burn in hell. The fact that you even use the word FAG is the dumbest shit I have ever heard. Do you even know the biology in homosexuality? No, you don't. Look it up and you will find that there is an actual chemical, biological reason for homosexuals to exist. It has to do with a deficiency in size of the INAH3 region of the anterior hypothalamus. Your blatant use of the word FAG is an insult to humanity and intelligence. If you truly believe that it is in God's nature to even remotely approve of the hate of any living person, than you truly have no idea of what Christianity means. If I believed in hell, you would in no doubt burn for eternity there.

[ADogg]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:

God is so perfect that he can do things that would seemingly make him imperfect (according to human logic) and still be perfect.



Dumbest, most illogical shit I've ever heard.

[ADogg]

quote:Originally posted by patmagroin:

We're not talking about serial killers who are crazy and believe their actions are good. we're talking about the concept of perfection. When something is perfect, NOTHING can make it imperfect. Perfection transcends logic.

Well by definition then, God is a serial killer. He killed millions of people, according to the old testament. If that's the case, he is far from perfect. Couldn't he just go "Pow" and make everybody cool and peaceful? NO? Okay, then. That proves that he's not all-powerful. So far, this God of yours is sounding a lot like Charles Manson: Mad killer, capable of seducing the minds of people into worshiping him and then turning around and endorsing murder. Great God you've got there, folks.

[ADogg]

Also, I can say burn in hell cuz I don't have a religion persay.

[Graemy]

quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Because the anus is for poo poo, not for sticking in pee pees.

QFT

[coolwestman]

quote:Originally posted by Spike Spiegel:



Free will? If free will is true, then God is imperfect. Instead of believing in free will, why not believe in Hope,... Hope for what can and will be.

How is god imperfect? Maybe god made us to be imperfect.

[ShitSlinger]

Send another note and in this provide a tinyurl pretending to be a factual link of biblical history but instead put the dirtiest gay porn you can find. That WILL fuck their day up

[Distortion plus]

http ://www.ske pticsannot atedbible.com/gay/long.htm (http: //www.skep ticsannota tedbible.c om/gay/lon g.htm)

Homosexuality in the Bible

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. -- Leviticus 18:22

Genesis

"And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him."

What did Ham do? Did he just look at his naked father or was there something more to it than that? Some commentators have suggested that Ham committed homosexual rape on his drunken father, and that this was why Ham's descendants were eternally punished with slavery. 9:24

This verse doesn't say what the Sodomites did to make them such exceedingly great sinners, though most bible believers equate "Sodomite" with homosexual. (But see Ezekiel 16:49, which claims the sins of Sodom were pride, gluttony, sloth, greed, and failure to help the poor.) 13:13

The two angels that visit Lot wash their feet, eat, and are sexually irresistible to Sodomites. 19:1-5

God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah. 19:4-5, 24-25

What did Sarah see? 21:9

Leviticus

Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

Deuteronomy

Women are not to wear men's clothing -- it's an "abomination unto the Lord." 22:5

God says not be bring any whore, sodomite, or dog into the house of the Lord. For "these things are an abomination to the Lord." Sodomites and dogs are biblical names for homosexuals. 23:17-18

1 Samuel

"The soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul ... And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments ... and his girdle." 18:1-4

"Jonathan ... delighted much in David." 19:2

Saul is angered by his son's homosexual affair with David and says, "do not I know that thou has chosen the son of Jesse to thine own confusion of thy mother's nakedness?" 20:30

David and Jonathan "kissed one another, and wept with one another" when they parted for the last time. 20:41

2 Samuel

David says to Jonathan: "very pleasant has thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of woman." 1:26

1 Kings

God shows his homophobia by calling gay people "sodomites" and their sexual relations "abominations." 14:24

Asa "did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD" by expelling homosexuals (or "sodomites", as the good book calls them). 15:12

Jehoshaphat "did that which was right in the eyes of the Lord" and "took" the homosexuals (sodomites) "out of the land," or as the RSV says, "he exterminated" them. 22:43, 46

2 Kings

Josiah, with God's approval, broke down the houses of the sodomites. 23:7

Isaiah

"They declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul!"

The biblical god just doesn't seem to care much for homosexuals. And he gets especially upset when "they hide it not." 3:9

Joel

They "have given a boy for a harlot." 3:3

Romans

With his usual intolerance, Paul condemns homosexuals (including lesbians). This is the only clear reference to lesbians in the Bible. 1:26-28

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

1 Corinthians

Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10

1 Timothy

Homosexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included on the list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

2 Timothy

Iin the last days people will become evil, "without natural affection." Fundamentalist say that this refers to homosexuals. 3:3

Jude

God sent "eternal fire" on the people of Sodom and Gomorrah for "going after strange flesh." 7-8

Revelation

"The hundred and forty and four thousand ... which were not defiled with women"

Are the 144,000 men that are "not defiled by women" homosexuals? Are only gay men to be saved? 14:1-4



when i read this kind of stuff it makes me feel like saying fuck the bible and this fake god that this bible represents. fuck it.

[among_the_living]

"Sufficient to stand but free to fall" - Paradise Lost.

I believe this is the type of thing that is used to explain the whole in gods image kinda thing, and free will.