View Full Version : banish "better"
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-08, 18:53
The most casual study of history will reveal that virtually all wars, crusades, jihads and casual violence in general have been based on a myth--the myth that one nation, religion, political system, gender or race is somehow better than another. The very title of this forum--presumably ironic--reflects this myth.
The fact is, no one is better than anyone else, for any reason. We are All One. Being smarter, younger, older, richer, stronger, taller or WHATEVER-er does not make one better. Just different.
Many will find this hard to accept. The Jews have been kidding themselves for milennia with this myth--"chosen people,' indeed. Some Protestants have been doing the same thing, with the nonsense that wealth is a sign of God's special favor.
God loves us all equally and unconditionally.
Whenw we realize this, we can be more accepting of each other, happier, less stressed out. There is no need to judge or to condemn. Remember--what you condemn will condemn you; what you judge, you will become.
I would not say this if it were not so.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
God loves us all equally and unconditionally.
How do you know?
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-08, 19:02
I now this the same way I know I love my wife, the same way I know what I had for breakfast this morning--by observation, memeory, and by what is in my heart.
What is in my mind was put there by other people. What is in my heart is part of my legacy which we all share due to having been created in the image and likeness of God.
Truely is it written, the kingdom of God is within us.
What's more, all the love and strength and joy and compassion we will ever need is within us. We need only go within to find it and own it and use it.
For if we do not go within, we shall surely go without.
I totally agree with you on 99.9% of your post. You're right. Except for the part about god.
We need to drop this one creator almighty god thing.
Its whats caused most of the hatred and wars in the world.
God is the human race, we are our own god.
The false god christians talk of has only held us back from evolving spiritually and moving forward as a civilization.
Your god teaches Conditional love and calls it unconditional.
We need to love everyone truly unconditionally.
[This message has been edited by Drips (edited 09-08-2006).]
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
I now this the same way I know I love my wife, the same way I know what I had for breakfast this morning--by observation, memeory, and by what is in my heart.
How have you observed everyone being loved by God equally and unconditionally?
firekitty751
2006-09-08, 19:12
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
How have you observed everyone being loved by God equally and unconditionally?
No one can.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
The fact is, no one is better than anyone else, for any reason. We are All One. Being smarter, younger, older, richer, stronger, taller or WHATEVER-er does not make one better. Just different.
Whether or not you think "we are all one", we are all still individuals who are different from one another. Some of these differences definitely make some of us better people than others.
Does that go for everything? Are all cars equal but different?
I have worked as a Corrections Officer for a short time, and if you met some of the scum of the Earth prisoners that I have, and you told me that I am no better than they are, I may have to bitch slap you.
Mellow_Fellow
2006-09-08, 22:48
ArmsMerchant, you are the kind of believer who is a credit to this world http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)
I agree with much of that.
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
I may have to bitch slap you.
i laughed.
i agree with Martini. first, there have been wars waged on need. a need for food, a need for shelter. that however doesn't make it right. being better than someone doesn't mean anything, i am better than my brother at alot of things, he is better than me at alot of things. the title of this forum doesn't mean that one god is better than another. it means that this forum is for debating religion.
saying that my god can beat the shit out of your god will lead to a debate. you would have to explain, expressing points supporting your god(or religion) or just debating religious ideals in general.
someone being better than someone else is something a thought to be tolerated, not banishing. if someone is better than you at basket ball, tolerate it and practice to become better. if someone thinks your religion is stupid, tolerate it and give points to why your religion isn't stupid and is insightful.
This is bullcrap. You think wars and violence happen because people think they are better than one another? That getting smaked in the face down the pub or de-throned by some other king happen because that bloke/king belives he is better than you?
That probably isn't true, it doesn't add up. Violence sprouts not from some shared ideology but from the simple fact that people are different. If we all shared one big hive mind, and were all the same, THEN no violence would happen.
On the other hand, if everyone shared realised they were no better than everyone else... well, you would still kill for survival would you not, or for the survival of your children, even if you realised they were no better than the people killing them.
Yes? No?
Twisted_Ferret
2006-09-09, 04:24
quote:Originally posted by Niceguy:
well, you would still kill for survival would you not, or for the survival of your children, even if you realised they were no better than the people killing them.
Yes? No?
Yes. Objectively, I am not worth any more than any other person, or hell, any other being. Any other thing! However, I would kill to save myself because I am worth more to myself. I am the only viewpoint I have, the only viewpoint - as far as I know - I will ever have, and thus... it is only my viewpoint that counts. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)
The_Big_Beef
2006-09-09, 06:11
Who is this god fellow that you so humbly talk of? saying that you can read his mind and such?
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-11, 18:22
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
I now this the same way I know I love my wife, the same way I know what I had for breakfast this morning--by observation, memeory, and by what is in my heart.
How have you observed everyone being loved by God equally and unconditionally?
Obviously, I have personal experience with only a tiny fraction of the billions of people on the planet.
In my philosophy--which is shared by many--God has given all of us eternal life and free will. Plus a really nice little planet in which to manifest our souls on the materia plane.
God neither judges nor punishes--that's the unconditional part.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
Obviously, I have personal experience with only a tiny fraction of the billions of people on the planet.
In my philosophy--which is shared by many--God has given all of us eternal life and free will. Plus a really nice little planet in which to manifest our souls on the materia plane.
God neither judges nor punishes--that's the unconditional part.
For us to believe that your philosophy has any validity, it should be based on something a little more convincing than "by observation, memeory, and by what is in my heart." It may be in your heart, but you haven't explained what memory you're talking about and you just admitted that you observed only a tiny fraction of the billions of people on the planet and you haven't told us what observations brought you to the conclusion that there is a God who gives us anything.
Your last sentence in your OP was "I would not say this if it were not so."
Do you think we should accept the philosophies of everyone who feels a certain something in his heart, or just yours?
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
The fact is, no one is better than anyone else, for any reason. We are All One. Being smarter, younger, older, richer, stronger, taller or WHATEVER-er does not make one better. Just different.
qft
the above poster is nit-picking
[This message has been edited by Obbe (edited 09-12-2006).]
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
qft
the above poster is nit-picking
I'm not nitpicking at all. We are not "all one" and the OP admitted that when he wrote that we are different. Person A may be better than Person B physically, mentally and morally. Some loser douche bag mugging people in the projects who stabs people afterwards just for the hell of it is surely not equal to me and not "one" with me.
I spend time and energy trying to be a better person, and I surely wouldn't do this if it weren't possible. I have become a much better person over the years and in doing so, have become better than others who were equal to me and made no improvements.
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
I'm not nitpicking at all. We are not "all one" and the OP admitted that when he wrote that we are different. Person A may be better than Person B physically, mentally and morally. Some loser douche bag mugging people in the projects who stabs people afterwards just for the hell of it is surely not equal to me and not "one" with me.
I spend time and energy trying to be a better person, and I surely wouldn't do this if it weren't possible. I have become a much better person over the years and in doing so, have become better than others who were equal to me and made no improvements.
to you, you have become better. who knows what they think of you. but its all perspective. why does the bum have to rob? what happened to him earlier in life, or in past lifes? you dont know.
bad things happen for good reasons. if only good things happen to you, you might think its great. but the real lessons are only learned through your painful experiances.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
to you, you have become better. who knows what they think of you. but its all perspective.
Of course it's a matter of perspective. But I don't think that that's what the OP was getting at when he said:
"The fact is, no one is better than anyone else, for any reason. We are All One. Being smarter, younger, older, richer, stronger, taller or WHATEVER-er does not make one better. Just different."
I'm not better than anyone "for any reason"? "We are all one"? This is total bullshit.
There are certain charcteristics that most people would say would make someone a total piece of shit. If there is a few people out there that would think that those characteristics actually make him a fantastic person, then by those standards, maybe the douche bag mugger who gets a kick out of stabbing his victims is better than me. But this "we are all one" , "no one is better than anyone else, for any reason" bullshit, is bullshit. It doesn't matter whether or not the piece of shit is a piece of shit because mommy didn't let him suck on her tit when he was a baby.
Germans>all, and you know it.
Twisted_Ferret
2006-09-12, 17:33
quote:Originally posted by Jokke:
Germans>all, and you know it.
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-12, 18:28
quote:Originally posted by Jokke:
Germans>all, and you know it.
Thank you for providing an striking example of what I was talking about. Some Germans might actually agree with this notion, and might actually resort to violence to show it. The remaining 99+% (or whatever the exact figure is) of the worlds population would probably disagree, some violently.
Now I would agree--as would many others--that the German language is more useful than many others in terms of discussing philosophy or aesthetics--the German language contains many words and phrases with no precise English equivalents.
But Germans themselves are merely souls who happen to manifest on the physical plane in a place called Germany. No better, no worse, than anyone else.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
There's a 99% change here that you're insecure / that there's a your life sucks element involved here, aka stop making this bullshit up to make yourself feel better you tard. If God loved us all equally then everyone would have equal changes in the world, something which is obviously NOT the case.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
God neither judges nor punishes--that's the unconditional part.
Not to be rude to you arms, but what the hell?
Doesn't punish? Whats this supposed hell you go to then(besides bullshit)?
If You don't wanna go to the bad evil place where your tortured,you have to do what god says or beg for forgiveness(basically).
Mellow_Fellow
2006-09-12, 23:48
What he believes makes perfect logical sense, there is no punishment, no big man in the sky explaining everything to you when you die, only the cycle of life, love and experience.
I understand it, but i still think there is much more than "God", but really i have no idea.
All i can say is AM seems like a guy who has truely learnt love from faith, rather than learning division, denial and hate.
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
Of course it's a matter of perspective. But I don't think that that's what the OP was getting at when he said:
"The fact is, no one is better than anyone else, for any reason. We are All One. Being smarter, younger, older, richer, stronger, taller or WHATEVER-er does not make one better. Just different."
I'm not better than anyone "for any reason"? "We are all one"? This is total bullshit.
There are certain charcteristics that most people would say would make someone a total piece of shit. If there is a few people out there that would think that those characteristics actually make him a fantastic person, then by those standards, maybe the douche bag mugger who gets a kick out of stabbing his victims is better than me. But this "we are all one" , "no one is better than anyone else, for any reason" bullshit, is bullshit. It doesn't matter whether or not the piece of shit is a piece of shit because mommy didn't let him suck on her tit when he was a baby.
but it is all perspective. and i dont just mean how you see things, i mean your place in life. your role in the universe. it all happens, all the good stuff along with the shit, and you get dragged along kicking and screaming. but in the end its all for good. if you look back in your life, every bad thing has prolly helped you in some way, eventually. think of how circumstances could be different in you life, if anything had been different. the good things dont really change anything. and again, that in itself is a mtter of perspective.
but the fact of the matter, whatever YOUR perspective remains, is that if you think like this, you'll be happy, content, and peaceful. and if everyone did, then there no longer would be suffering.
quote:Originally posted by Aseren:
There's a 99% change here that you're insecure / that there's a your life sucks element involved here, aka stop making this bullshit up to make yourself feel better you tard. If God loved us all equally then everyone would have equal changes in the world, something which is obviously NOT the case.
Angry? Feel better now? When did anyone ever listen to the one throwing insults? "tard"? What makes AM a "tard" for expressing his thoughts? What did you add to the thread? If all responded your way would anyone be saying anything?
Namaste http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
Many will find this hard to accept.
Your right! It is "hard to accept" without the personal experience/knowledge you seem to be expressing. When one experiences the states of higher consciousness it becomes difficult to express to others and often it seems we fall into descriptions that are the product of images, beliefs, teachings, culture. Agreed we are all one, all members of the one human species! As an individual member of that remarkable species, I am equal to each and all other members.
Thanks for the positive thoughts http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-13, 18:30
quote:Originally posted by Drips:
I totally agree with you on 99.9% of your post. You're right. Except for the part about god.
We need to drop this one creator almighty god thing.
Its whats caused most of the hatred and wars in the world.
Actually, I ternd to agree, and apologize for failing to make myself clear. When I refer to "God," I do not mean a discrete discarnate entity--although there ARE such things in my universe.
When I say God, I refer to what some people mean when they say Spirit, the Great Spirit, the Unified Field, the Universal Intelligence, the Force, or simply the Universe. It's all the same thing, and it's all good.
God is not some dude in a robe sitting on a cloud somewhere out there. God is everywhere and no where--and "no where" = "now here.". Like the Bible said--in one of the striking instances when it is right on the money--" the kingdom of God is within you."
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
but it is all perspective. and i dont just mean how you see things, i mean your place in life. your role in the universe. it all happens, all the good stuff along with the shit, and you get dragged along kicking and screaming.
None of this has anything to do with some people being better than others.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
but in the end its all for good. if you look back in your life, every bad thing has prolly helped you in some way, eventually.
Uh, no. There are plenty of bad things that have happened to people that did nothing but make their lives miserable. Claiming that you know that in the end "it's all good for you" is some made up horse shit that you just came up with or someone elses bullshit philosophy that there is no evidence for. Again, what the fuck does this have to do with some people being better than others?
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
think of how circumstances could be different in you life, if anything had been different. the good things dont really change anything. and again, that in itself is a mtter of perspective.
The good things don't really change anything? What the fuck are you talking about? WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH SOME PEOPLE BEING BETTER THAN OTHERS?
quote:Originally posted by redzed:
Angry? Feel better now? When did anyone ever listen to the one throwing insults? "tard"? What makes AM a "tard" for expressing his thoughts? What did you add to the thread? If all responded your way would anyone be saying anything?
Namaste http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)
I consider you HAXED.
quote:Originally posted by xray:
The good things don't really change anything? What the fuck are you talking about? WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS HAVE TO DO WITH SOME PEOPLE BEING BETTER THAN OTHERS?
if you dont understand, then nevermind
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-14, 19:01
quote:Originally posted by Drips:
Not to be rude to you arms, but what the hell?
Doesn't punish? Whats this supposed hell you go to then(besides bullshit)?
If You don't wanna go to the bad evil place where your tortured,you have to do what god says or beg for forgiveness(basically).
There is no such thing as hell. If you don't want to take my word for it, maybe Pope John Paul II will convince you, who said much the same thing in 1999--that hell is not a location but state of mind we choose.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
Actually, I ternd to agree, and apologize for failing to make myself clear. When I refer to "God," I do not mean a discrete discarnate entity--although there ARE such things in my universe.
When I say God, I refer to what some people mean when they say Spirit, the Great Spirit, the Unified Field, the Universal Intelligence, the Force, or simply the Universe. It's all the same thing, and it's all good.
God is not some dude in a robe sitting on a cloud somewhere out there. God is everywhere and no where--and "no where" = "now here.". Like the Bible said--in one of the striking instances when it is right on the money--" the kingdom of God is within you."
Ok gotcha. I guess I missunderstood what you meant about god and hell and stuff.
[This message has been edited by Drips (edited 09-15-2006).]
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
There is no such thing as hell. If you don't want to take my word for it, maybe Pope John Paul II will convince you, who said much the same thing in 1999--that hell is not a location but state of mind we choose.
So out of all of the other Pope's that have thought differently, of all the other religious non-Catholic Christian leaders who think differently, of all the religious leaders of other religions that think differently, you're attempting to use what one Pope's thoughts on Hell were to prove that you know something about Hell's existance?
Why do you constantly make positive statement on subjects on which you have no evidence for?
Also, why have you not answered many of my questions that I have asked in various threads? You're not helping to make your statements sound credible to who ever you're trying to reach if you won't answer to your rebuttals.
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-15, 18:16
^ I am not here to argue, or to bandy words with some nattering nabobs of negativism.
For nearly half a century, I have been a seeker of the Light. Having found it, I now choose to serve as a bringer of the Light.
Evidence? This is not a court of law, dude--no one is on trial here.
I ask no one to believe me, just to pay some attention.
If my words--which are not original, BTW--strike a chord in someone, resonate in their heart, offer the knowledge that they no longer have to be a victim, that they can choose how they experience reality, banish fear, and live in a state of power, freedom and grace--as I do on a daily basis--then I will have succeeded.
Those who cannot transcend their negative programming, reject what I have to say, and respond to my love with hostility and sarcasm--well, all I can do is bless them.
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-15, 19:00
quote:Originally posted by The_Big_Beef:
saying that you can read his mind and such?
Wrong. I never said I can read God's mind. What I do say is that God speaks to me. Big deal. He/she/it/them/whatever you may conceive God to be--speaks to ALL of us.
I merely pay more attention than most other people.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
I am not here to argue, or to bandy words with some nattering nabobs of negativism.
There is absolutely nothing negative about asking where you are getting your information from, when you make such positive satements and follow them up with, "I wouldn't say it if it weren't true".
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
For nearly half a century, I have been a seeker of the Light. Having found it, I now choose to serve as a bringer of the Light.
How have you seeked out the Light? It certainly doesn't seem to be in any ways rational. Are you mentioning how long you've been alive in an attempt to convince others of the validity of the conclusions you've come to?
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
Evidence? This is not a court of law, dude--no one is on trial here.
No, it's not a court of law. But if you're going to attempt to get others to believe what you're saying is true, evidence will certainly help your cause. Only a fool follows words with nothing rational to back them up.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
I ask no one to believe me, just to pay some attention.
Have you tried Match.com?
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
If my words--which are not original, BTW--strike a chord in someone, resonate in their heart, offer the knowledge that they no longer have to be a victim, that they can choose how they experience reality, banish fear, and live in a state of power, freedom and grace--as I do on a daily basis--then I will have succeeded.
Knowledge is gained with facts. A fact is information which has been verified to be true. You aren't providing anything! How are you helping anyone from not being a victim? A victim of what or whom? You don't think that people already are aware that they can choose how they experience reality? How are you helping anyone banish fear? Would that really be a good thing? Are you off your rocker?
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
Those who cannot transcend their negative programming, reject what I have to say, and respond to my love with hostility and sarcasm--well, all I can do is bless them.
What sort of negative programming? You're not sharing love; you're sharing irrational thought and magical beliefs which I will respond to with asking for evidence. If this stops anyone from blindly listening to boobs like you who think that they know which fairy tales are real and which aren't, then I have succeeded.
[This message has been edited by Martini (edited 09-15-2006).]
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
He/she/it/them/whatever you may conceive God to be--speaks to ALL of us.
I merely pay more attention than most other people.
How do you know that He speaks to everyone? Has He told you so? In what manner do you receive messages from God?
Martini just lay off it, there isn't concrete proof for any spiritual belief. so picking apart what Armsmerchant is saying is just pointless.
quote:Originally posted by Drips:
Martini just lay off it, there isn't concrete proof for any spiritual belief. so picking apart what Armsmerchant is saying is just pointless.
When someone constantly makes claims that "he knows" something about the supernatural world, I'm going to call him on it. Me doing this isn't pointless if I can help someone who may be getting suckered in by this type of nonsense, to use rational thinking and to also question far out claims.
Using the word "spiritual" as a way of bringing a positive attribute to magical thinking and supernatural claims without proof, and trying to propagate this type of thinking doesn't fly with me.
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
When someone constantly makes claims that "he knows" something about the supernatural world, I'm going to call him on it. Me doing this isn't pointless if I can help someone who may be getting suckered in by this type of nonsense, to use rational thinking and to also question far out claims.
Using the word "spiritual" as a way of bringing a positive attribute to magical thinking and supernatural claims without proof, and trying to propagate this type of thinking doesn't fly with me.
I think its great you wanna help people from being suckered, thats a good thing.
I'm just saying that since there is no way anyone can prove or disprove any beliefs at the moment, theres no point in dissecting ArmsMerchants posts.
The people who would just accept any belief they hear are usually lost causes anyway. No matter what proof is put in front of those people they won't accept it.
quote:Originally posted by Drips:
I'm just saying that since there is no way anyone can prove or disprove any beliefs at the moment,
Some beliefs can be proved or disproved. Others can have a reasonable amount of evidence that may warrant a rational person to hold a belief. And then there are the types of beliefs that ArmsMerchant holds.
quote:Originally posted by Drips:
theres no point in dissecting ArmsMerchants posts.
The points I made in my last post are valid reasons.
quote:Originally posted by Drips:
The people who would just accept any belief they hear are usually lost causes anyway. No matter what proof is put in front of those people they won't accept it.
I'm afraid that that's true for a whole lot of people, but fortunately it's not true for everyone.
I, like most people, was raised with parents who believed in God, demons, and a whole host of irrational and superstitious beliefs, which they passed down to my siblings and me.
If it weren't for influences from outside of my family, notably a science teacher I had in grammar school who instilled in his students the value of rational thought and critical thinking skills (unfortuately many teachers aren't as thorough as good ole mr. B. in that area), I may never have learned to think rationally and scientifically, wouldn't have the job in the science field as I do today, and may be just another boob who thinks something bad may happen if I don't toss salt over my shoulder.
Being just another boob isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world, but irrational belief causes some to pray instead of acting (some actually pray in lieu of giving thair children medical attention), and plenty of other things that are bad for the world in general.
But ArmsMerchant isn't telling anyone to do anything like that, so he's harmless, right? Wrong. It's all along the same road of magical beliefs and the same dangers are there.
ArmsMerchant
2006-09-16, 20:24
"Suckered" ?
How is one a sucker to accept as true that life is eternal; that there are no victims and no villains in the world; that we alone choose how we experience reality; that each one of us represents the highest and greatest product of God's loving and creative powers; that there is no need to be afraid of anything or any one?
All the above seems rather empowering to me.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
"Suckered" ?
How is one a sucker to accept as true that life is eternal;
In many ways. Some by their parents who teach them these magical ways of thinking without the kid having anyone to teach him how to apply critcal thinking skills to others claims.
Some are suckered by evangelists who prey on those down on their luck and convince them that they should live for a God and that everything will "be alright" in the next life.
And then are of course the extreme cases where someone like David Koresh brainwashes a bunch of people (many with children) to die for him.
Etc, etc., etc.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
that there are no victims and no villains in the world;
No victims? Didn't you say in this very thread that you help others to stop being victims? Victims of what?
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
that there is no need to be afraid of anything or any one?
All the above seems rather empowering to me.
No. It's dangerous and it's horseshit. There is much need to fear plenty of people. Fear is a good thing.
Martini, chill out. Your parents traumitized you and now you feel threatened by anything spiritual. Whatever. If he ignored your reasoning and logic the first 3 or 4 times, why do you insist and persist? Nothing wrong with questioning, but now you're just plain bugging. It's a pain to read all that, and this is coming from an atheist.
quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:
How is one a sucker to accept as true that life is eternal; that there are no victims and no villains in the world; that we alone choose how we experience reality; that each one of us represents the highest and greatest product of God's loving and creative powers; that there is no need to be afraid of anything or any one?
All the above seems rather empowering to me.
QFT
quote:Originally posted by Zay:
Martini, chill out. Your parents traumitized you and now you feel threatened by anything spiritual. Whatever. If he ignored your reasoning and logic the first 3 or 4 times, why do you insist and persist? Nothing wrong with questioning, but now you're just plain bugging. It's a pain to read all that, and this is coming from an atheist.
I was not traumatized whatsoever and I don't feel "threatened" by anything "spiritual". Spiritual is nothing but a feel good word for superstition. I don't persist for his sake; I persist for the sake of any young impressionable folks who may fall for crap of those who can say they can help others from not being victimized, can heal them, and tell them that there is no reason to fear anyone. If you find it painful to read my posts because you've heard it already, look for my name first on the left and save yourself the pain I cause by simply not reading. I find it extremely painful to read posts from ArmsMerchant and those like him, but I'll continue to do so and call them on any superstitious and potentially dangerous bullshit they spout.
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
I was not traumatized whatsoever and I don't feel "threatened" by anything "spiritual". Spiritual is nothing but a feel good word for superstition. I don't persist for his sake; I persist for the sake of any young impressionable folks who may fall for crap of those who can say they can help others from not being victimized, can heal them, and tell them that there is no reason to fear anyone. If you find it painful to read my posts because you've heard it already, look for my name first on the left and save yourself the pain I cause by simply not reading. I find it extremely painful to read posts from ArmsMerchant and those like him, but I'll continue to do so and call them on any superstitious and potentially dangerous bullshit they spout.
its probably more dangerous to belive your bullshit about not ever beliving anything that sounds like potential bullshit(a perspective based on personal opinion by the way.) If people did, then we would still be in the stone ages...what, of modern society, would be belivable to a primitive civilization?
But on topic, why do you presume god treating everyone equal means paridise? equal...the different sides balance each other. Just like the suffering in the universe equals the happiness and joy. everything is just energy feilds anyway, at the basic level. and all forces have an opposite reastion...so all the positive, good things in the universe, have an equal negative opposite balancing them. and positive and negative, still, are just perspectives. the point is they balance, and are equal. God is the universe, is infinity, is all. In the bigger picture, everything is equal.
A person starving to death, while horrible and unwanted, is just a negative reaction to someone else overeating. The real source of suffering in the universe is negative thoughts and actions. also called selfish thoughts and actions.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
its probably more dangerous to belive your bullshit about not ever beliving anything that sounds like potential bullshit(a perspective based on personal opinion by the way.)
What?
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
so all the positive, good things in the universe, have an equal negative opposite balancing them.
Where are you getting this from?
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
A person starving to death, while horrible and unwanted, is just a negative reaction to someone else overeating.
By this logic, if everyone stopped overeating tomorrow, there would be no more people starving in the world. You actually believe this?
Does this also mean that if we start solving the problem of famine in the world, people throughout the world would miraculously stop overeating to help balance out the universe?
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
By this logic, if everyone stopped overeating tomorrow, there would be no more people starving in the world. You actually believe this?
Does this also mean that if we start solving the problem of famine in the world, people throughout the world would miraculously stop overeating to help balance out the universe?
im saying all the opposites in the universe balance. Im saying everything is energy at the basic level, everything is just a force, and all forces have opposite reactions. What you see is just relative to your perspective...are you falling towards earth, or is it speeding up to you?
im not getting this from anywhere, why do i have to? What would make anyone elses claim more reliable? Please, dont belive a word i say, because i can tell you right now its all bullshit. But what isnt? Nothing has ever been proven, or fully understood.
And no, i dont personally belive everyone stavring suddenly wouldnt be if everyone who ate to much suddenly stoped. Because there hasnt been any change of energy...but if all the overeaters suddenly *gasp* sent their food to the starving, a non-selfish act, then yeah. I dont think they'd be hungry. I think if everyone started to try to tip the balance away from themselves, then everyone would be happier.
No, i havnt got my information for anywhere, other then books i have read, thoughts i have thought, and coincidences that seem to make sence that i have forgot. But these are my beliefs, im not trying to face fuck it down your throat. I dont care what you think of them, if you think it makes the least sence in the universe, and im the silliest man in the west.
No one will ever know anything.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
Im saying everything is energy at the basic level, everything is just a force, and all forces have opposite reactions. What you see is just relative to your perspective...are you falling towards earth, or is it speeding up to you?
It seems that you're trying to use scientific principles to prove that for every fat person, there must be a skinny person or that there must be a bad thing for every good thing. It doesn't work that way.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
im not getting this from anywhere, why do i have to?
You don't have to. Knock yourself out with all the irrational beliefs you like.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
What would make anyone elses claim more reliable?
Evidence.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
Please, dont belive a word i say, because i can tell you right now its all bullshit. But what isnt? Nothing has ever been proven, or fully understood.
You're half right. Nothing can be absolutley proven. No one can 100% prove the laws of gravity. Apples may start falling up instead of down tomorrow, but enough strong evidence shows that this most likely won't happen due to the facts which we know. In science, a fact is a piece of information which is "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent."
The last part of your sentence, Nothing has ever been proven, or fully understood is meaningless. We don't have to fully understand why antibiotics can cure a person with gonorrhea, but we do fully understand that it works almost 100% of the time. We also know that your statement that starvation is an opposite of overeating, so it must exist, has no evidence behind it, and there is evidence to the contrary (there hasn't always been a proportionate amount of overeaters to starving people in the world).
im not trying to use science, science jsut seems to fit. and i know theres no way i could just guess something and be correct, but i dont care. People have belived the universe opperates under this system of balance for thousands of years....without any evidence....and certainly not scientific evidence.
you seem to think im trying to proove somthing to you, but im not. I dont belive proof of anything exists.
Nothing at all makes anyones claims more belivable to me, because i dont think evidence really means anything. In this case.
In the case of this thread, thinking of yourself as better then someone else would promote selfish acts and thoughts....thus throwing balance out of wack, and making others lifes harder.
I really, really dont care what you belive. But this is what i belive. And if you want to start changing peoples minds with evidence, start trying to change mine. Tell me how its incorrect.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
im not trying to use science, science jsut seems to fit.
Science doesn't fit in your example.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
and i know theres no way i could just guess something and be correct, but i dont care.
You don't care if guessing is not an efficient way of being closer to being correct than with using a rational set of standards?
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
People have belived the universe opperates under this system of balance for thousands of years....without any evidence....and certainly not scientific evidence.
I'm not sure that you're correct that this system of balance that you provided examples for has been believed for thousands of years, but is that said as a way to show that the length of time people have held a belief is a good indicator of whether or not one should also hold that belief? What was your point in writing that?
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
you seem to think im trying to proove somthing to you, but im not. I dont belive proof of anything exists.
Please read my last post again. I believe it's important for you to understand that absolute proof not existing is not a good reason to believe in anything that floats your boat.
As argumentative as I have been on this board, I'm not trying to "win" anything here. I truly want you reconsider using evidence for a reason to hold beliefs because I think it's best for you. You wouldn't take medicine someone told you would help you without a reasonable amount of evidence that the person prescribing it to you is a medical professional with a license to prescribe, would you?
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
And if you want to start changing peoples minds with evidence, start trying to change mine. Tell me how its incorrect.
How can I do that if you already believe that evidence is worthless?
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
How can I do that if you already believe that evidence is worthless?
how can i provide evidence for somthing that could never, in our imaginations, be verified?
evidence belongs in a case like trying to proove 9/11 was fake, or in a murder case. I can't bring out 'evidence' for this in the same way no one can proove god exists, or that he dosn't. Some people firm belief that he dosnt, and some do. Most people have firm belief in gravity, but that does not proove it. Most people used to have firm belief in a flat world.
I do not, personally, need evidence for this. its the way i see the world. and it works for me...how could i proove that to you?
If my evidence of somthing, im not even asking you to belive in is so important, then why wont you bring some out against it. you must be thinking of some great injustice, or you wouldnt be so agaisnt it to argue so strongly.
If everything requires absolute proof, then whats the point of beliving in anything? Everything is fake. Reality dosnt exist.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
evidence belongs in a case like trying to proove 9/11 was fake, or in a murder case.
But it doesn't belong in cases where people make other extraordinary claims of how the world or universe works?
I'm more comfortable now that I understand that you at least believe evidence is important sometimes.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
If everything requires absolute proof, then whats the point of beliving in anything?
I guess you didn't re-read the post I asked you to. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
I guess you didn't re-read the post I asked you to. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)
and i dont think you fully understood me...im confused.
and no, i dont think evidence is EVER important. Nothing is really important. But thats somthing that could actually be prooven, one way or another....somthing like this, takes somthing called faith.
quote:Originally posted by Obbe:
and no, i dont think evidence is EVER important.
You don't? You said that "evidence belongs in a case like trying to proove 9/11 was fake, or in a murder case."
Don't you believe that evidence belongs in those cases because it is important?
Don't you beleive that evidence of efficacy is important when deciding whether or not a new drug should be put on the market?
quote:Originally posted by Martini:
You don't? You said that "evidence belongs in a case like trying to proove 9/11 was fake, or in a murder case."
Don't you believe that evidence belongs in those cases because it is important?
Don't you beleive that evidence of efficacy is important when deciding whether or not a new drug should be put on the market?
none of these things are truly important. the entire human existance is less then the width of a hair compare to life on earth. in the little games we play, the trival disputes that go on in our society...evidence is required. But in a society above all that, nothing would ever have to be proven. greed, selfishness, thsoe wouldnt exist, and neither would crimes against others.
Evidence is required for learning, as it is...or is it? We teach what we have gathered and learnt, and figured out from our mistakes over the last thousands of years, but what if we all just decided to hault progress? I doubt it would matter though, because by the time a society as a whole realized these ideals, they would prolly be considerably many times more advansed then our own. i suppose it might just be a stage. But on the other hand, how do you know everything you've ever been taught in history isnt a very complex lie?
I think i started to babble on. However, you are playing with my words. I didnt say evidence for theories explaining the universe dont matter...i said it dosnt exist. You can't proove these things. At least not yet.
edit-or maybe i dindt....i dont remember what i said, or bothered to check. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Obbe (edited 09-19-2006).]
ArmsMerchant
2008-09-25, 19:22
Bumped for the edification of newer members.