Global warming swindle.

[among_the_living]

Anyone watching this?

Very interesting...

its difficult because you get one documentary showing one side, then another showing the other, no debate inbetween.

Though...this is turning me to change my mind on the issue....temperature falling during industrial booms such as after 1940s and temps rising during the medieval time, 1400s and so on is strange.

[Real.PUA]

Yes, propaganda can be convincing when you arent an expert.

I would bet every argument presented in that film is refuted on this site: http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

[This message has been edited by Real.PUA (edited 03-08-2007).]

[among_the_living]

quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

Yes, propaganda can be convincing when you arent an expert.

I would bet every argument presented in that film is refuted on this site: http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics



How do you refute the graphic evidence between solar activity and rise of temperatures?

So far ive heard from both sides, and i have read a LOT about it, and, this is the most compelling argument ive seen.

The oceans, trees, volcanoes and so on all give off more CO2 than man.

And yes, im not an expert, but "new scientist" editors, climatologists, the man who did the ice data for gore and even says gore got it wrong, NASA scientists and numerous other experts.....ARe experts.

This global warming thing seems to be being pushed more by politics and money than man made CO2.

[This message has been edited by among_the_living (edited 03-08-2007).]

[among_the_living]

Massive fluctuations in arctic ice shown in NASAs satellites and the IARC which is the leading arctic research institute says the same, well....it changes all the time, it has been MUCH MUCH warmer in greenland and we didnt have a disaster, and the ice in russia has also melted faster before.

It takes hundreds and thousands of years for changes in the deep oceans to happen from surface changes, so, things happening now, or last year, wont have any correlation to climate that year, it is more likely that it is from hundreds of years ago.

[This message has been edited by among_the_living (edited 03-08-2007).]

[gforce]

quote:Originally posted by among_the_living:

Anyone watching this?

Very interesting...

its difficult because you get one documentary showing one side, then another showing the other, no debate inbetween.

Though...this is turning me to change my mind on the issue....temperature falling during industrial booms such as after 1940s and temps rising during the medieval time, 1400s and so on is strange.

basically yes it's very hard for most people to make an informative decision on it when the programme is very biast with no real counter argument

Im not to sure whether climate change is man made or not by my perspective is basically 'why take the risk that it is us causing it'.

Note: Cooling temperatures after industrial booms may be down to extreme amounts of soot and visible pollution being pumped into the air cooling the earth but don't know about the medieval warming period??

[among_the_living]

The IPCC report released had a LOT of sections taken out in the peer review period.

They said

"these changes were made due to complaints from governments and non-scientific organizations"

So....negative comments on the report were deleted due to government complaints. wow.

[Real.PUA]

Trees suck up CO2...they use it to grow. If it could be shown that human activity is not raising concentration of atmospheric CO2, then you may have a point about the volcanoes and whatever else may release CO2. However, as far as I am aware burning fossil fuels does release CO2 into the air. CO2, being a greenhouse gas, leads to the planet warming.

Do we have any reason to believe that the sun is getting warmer?

You could have searched the site I linked to ane seen: quote: It's true that the earth is warmed, for all practical purposes, entirely by solar radiation, so if the temperature is going up or down, the sun is a reasonable place to seek the cause.

Turns out it's more complicated than one might think to detect and measure changes in the amount or type of sunshine reaching the earth. Detectors on the ground are susceptible to all kinds of interference from the atmosphere -- after all, one cloud passing overhead can cause a shiver on an otherwise warm day, but not because the sun itself changed. The best way to detect changes in the output of the sun -- versus changes in the radiation reaching the earth's surface through clouds, smoke, dust, or pollution -- is by taking readings from space.

This is a job for satellites. According to PMOD at the World Radiation Center there has been no increase in solar irradiance since at least 1978, when satellite observations began. This means that for the last thirty years, while the temperature has been rising fastest, the sun has not changed.

There has been work done reconstructing the solar irradiance record over the last century, before satellites were available. According to the Max Planck Institute, where this work is being done, there has been no increase in solar irradiance since around 1940. This reconstruction does show an increase in the first part of the 20th century, which coincides with the warming from around 1900 until the 1940s. It's not enough to explain all the warming from those years, but it is responsible for a large portion. See this chart of observed temperature, modeled temperature, and variations in the major forcings that contributed to 20th century climate.

RealClimate has a couple of detailed discussions on what we can conclude about solar forcing and how science reached those conclusions. Read them here and here.



[This message has been edited by Real.PUA (edited 03-08-2007).]

[among_the_living]

"CO2, being a greenhouse gas, leads to the planet warming."

Climate experts research show this isnt so....tests done show that it should be warmer higher in the atmosphere where the solar rays are bounced up to, but, in fact it is cooler up there....not warmer.

The oceans and volcanoes and animals and rotting vegetation and so on DO release more CO2 than man....thats a fact.

[Slave of the Beast]

This point was explored here (http://tinyurl.com/27lea2), for those of you who are interested.