View Full Version : organic farming
throopguy21
2007-03-15, 22:55
well for the last five years i have lived and worked on an organic farm. we have a little under five acres. we grow organic fruits and vegetables. i dont see why organic farming is so much better. i can see how it can be better ecologically. i do really admire the hell out of my dad for doing what he does but i really dont see how it is so great. we make about half of what a "traditional" farmer makes because are yields are about half. the quality of our produce is excellent but since what we can put on the plants is so limited the crops are really strange looking and unnapealling. if someone can justify what is so great about og farming let me know.
Its because the chemically tainted vegetation is bad for you, as well as yes, the environment. Same reason factory-farm meats are also bad for you.
But whatever, people just like what they know. They've grown up in a world with an almost set standard for foods. If you went back in time and sold vegetables to peasants, they wouldn't care...because they would be used to organically grown foods.
The worlds a sad place, but at least there are some people like your father, still practicing one of the most important stepping stones of civilization.
[This message has been edited by Obbe (edited 03-15-2007).]
throopguy21
2007-03-15, 23:42
yeah, you are right. I guess we have not yet perfected the most efficient organic growing methods so it seems so difficult.
boozehound420
2007-03-16, 03:59
what do you use for pesticides, if any? Thats really the only difference necessary to protect the envirnment. Even know the "organic pesticides" derived from plants will fuck you up just as good as any synthesized chemical.
What do you use as fertilizer? The only difference between organic and synthetic is organic requires getting the chemicals necessary from things like seaweed, kelp, bat shit, worm shit etc. While synthetic we produce the EXACT same chemicals so we can manipulate the amounts to those perfect numbers for the particuler plant to grow to its full potential.
Its possible to do it with organic, but usually cost more and requires alot of research into finding what to use.
[This message has been edited by boozehound420 (edited 03-16-2007).]
Slave of the Beast
2007-03-16, 07:51
quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:
what do you use for pesticides, if any? Thats really the only difference necessary to protect the envirnment. Even know the "organic pesticides" derived from plants will fuck you up just as good as any synthesized chemical.
Insect pheromone traps would probably qualify as "organic", and won't fuck anything up as they don't enter the food chain.
quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:
What do you use as fertilizer? The only difference between organic and synthetic is organic requires getting the chemicals necessary from things like seaweed, kelp, bat shit, worm shit etc. While synthetic we produce the EXACT same chemicals so we can manipulate the amounts to those perfect numbers for the particuler plant to grow to its full potential.
Eutrophication, much?
Seriously
2007-03-16, 13:58
quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:
what do you use for pesticides, if any? Thats really the only difference necessary to protect the envirnment. Even know the "organic pesticides" derived from plants will fuck you up just as good as any synthesized chemical.
There are some other things that can be done like introducing a non-invasive predator species like the praying mantis to kill grasshopers. The organic pesticides can be just as harmful, but they are water soluble so they don't accumulate.
throopguy21
2007-03-16, 19:29
we mostly use pyrithone(sp?) or a few other things. most other pesticides are made from petrochemicals and do not easily break down.
boozehound420
2007-03-17, 00:36
quote:Originally posted by Slave of the Beast:
Eutrophication, much?
If you use organic fertilizer the same thing happens. Thats a result of farming, either way.
Slave of the Beast
2007-03-17, 06:54
quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:
If you use organic fertilizer the same thing happens. Thats a result of farming, either way.
The whole point of using seaweed et al, is that it happens less.
isn't eutriphocation the ground water running off into the ocean??
Arsenic is an organic pesticide, but I wouldn't call it safe or water soluble.
Just because it's organic doesn't mean that it won't kill you. Snake venom is organic, but I wouldn't want to drink it.
Pyrethrin extracted from the pryethrin daisy and that synthesyzed from petrochemicals are exactly the same chemical
it's the cultural practices for than the chemical practices that give advantages to organic type farming. A low-till/no till farming system decreases the water needed, decreation the rate of denitrification and increases the amount of organic matter in the soil. Intercropping legumes and grains can improve the forage yeilds from a piece of land without needin extra fertilizer. Practicing crop rotation and using pest-resistant varieties can greatly reduce the pestacides needed for viable production.
throopguy21
2007-03-17, 18:08
thats true but we mostly grow heirloom varieties of produce so they have almost no resisistance to anything, if its wet the bottoms rot in one day. it is tasty though.
[This message has been edited by throopguy21 (edited 03-17-2007).]
boozehound420
2007-03-18, 19:33
quote:Originally posted by throopguy21:
thats true but we mostly grow heirloom varieties of produce so they have almost no resisistance to anything, if its wet the bottoms rot in one day. it is tasty though.
There are other nutrients you can use that, www.advancednutrients.com (http://www.advancednutrients.com)
There products like,
Piranha, tarantula- Beneficial fungi, bacteria, create a healthy rootzone, and these fungi and bacteria kill harmfull ones. Increasing yield and protecting the roots. The bacteria and fungis will multiply once in the soil so this can be affordable for the farmer, since one or two applications a harvest will be helpfull.
boozehound420
2007-03-18, 19:42
quote:Originally posted by Slave of the Beast:
The whole point of using seaweed et al, is that it happens less.
the only way it will happen less is because the person using organic isnt useing organic to its full potential. Its possible to get the same yields as synthetic, and once you do that the water runoff has the same amounts of chemicals in it either way. If not more, because with organic you have added chemicals that arent used by the plants. Where as synthetic you are only useing the chemicals the plants use.
[This message has been edited by boozehound420 (edited 03-19-2007).]
quote:Originally posted by boozehound420:
the only way it will happen less is because the person using organic isnt useing organic to its full potential. Its possible to get the same yields as synthetic, and once you do that the water runoff has the same amounts of chemicals in it either way. If not more, because with organic you have added chemicals that arent used by the plants. Where as synthetic you are only useing the chemicals the plants use.
what? the big problem with runoff is huge amounts of nitrates and phosphates. they aren't an issue with organic farming. crop rotation and natural fertilisers (like shit) eliminate the need for them.
StealthyRacoons
2007-03-25, 03:35
Well we now have genetically engineered plants that resist the insects themselves. Now environmentalists say they are bad for you and will lead to knew and higher cancer rates or what ever they are making up lately. The thing is they don't have proof.
And ya organic farming is pretty much useless, if you follow good farming techniques you can limit environmental impact. But i don't see why you make alot less. You can charge hippies 3, 4x the normal price.
naht.schnox
2007-03-25, 20:34
ya'll growin' POT?!
best herbicide/fungicide/pesticide is growndup marijuana, or growing marijuana around the perimeter of your garden. You wouldn't believe how fantastically well this works.
I read an article today that said you consume more pesticides just living for a day, than you do eating any vegetables, and while organic ones do have less pesticides, the amount on both is negligible.
NotOnlyButAlso
2007-03-26, 13:32
quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:
What? The big problem with runoff is huge amounts of nitrates and phosphates. They aren't an issue with organic farming. crop rotation and natural fertilisers (like shit) eliminate the need for them.
Natural fertilisers do contain large amounts large amounts of nitrogen and phosphorus, but they are also worse sometimes. They are not as concentrated as artificial fertilisers and their contents vary, so you have to apply more to get the same nutrient balance, so you have a greater chance of some being washed into the water system.
boozehound420
2007-03-26, 23:31
quote:Originally posted by Retikx:
best herbicide/fungicide/pesticide is growndup marijuana, or growing marijuana around the perimeter of your garden. You wouldn't believe how fantastically well this works.
The magic of THC. Juvenile plants get eaten like any other plant, but once the THC starts coming out bugs, rabbits, etc. Wont go near it.
dhalgren's haze
2007-04-08, 06:06
If i pissed a lil bit in your cereal would you call that negligible? What amount would bother you? A teaspoon of urine or maybe a cup? Get my point? I dont ingest ANY amount of poison, i dont care if they say its safe, or its only 3 parts per million, its fucking poison dude. Ppl say oh its only a lil apartame, just a lil pesticide, lol. A lil over time is all it takes, then we wonder why we are fat, diseased, and terminally ill at 40.
the ddt might be slightly bad for the enviorment but it does kill malaria carrying mosquitos
deus-redux
2007-04-08, 19:20
If i pissed a lil bit in your cereal would you call that negligible? What amount would bother you? A teaspoon of urine or maybe a cup? Get my point? I dont ingest ANY amount of poison, i dont care if they say its safe, or its only 3 parts per million, its fucking poison dude. Ppl say oh its only a lil apartame, just a lil pesticide, lol. A lil over time is all it takes, then we wonder why we are fat, diseased, and terminally ill at 40.
We're exposed to natual poisons all the time.
In fact, most things we encounter are poisonous in the right dose.
That's why dose is important, because we can't totally protect ourselves from everything; and some things are perfectly safe in small amounts that can be metabolised.
Even natural fertilisers cause eutrophication of waterways.
The point we really have to consider is, which individual method, on a case by case basis, is betetr for the environment. And sometimes that's the synthetic approach.
-deus-
Prometheus
2007-04-08, 22:43
the ddt might be slightly bad for the enviorment but it does kill malaria carrying mosquitos
If by slightly bad, you mean damn near causing several dozen bird species to go extinct, including the condor and bald eagle.