View Full Version : Pay as you throw Rubbish collection
Basically in the UK for the last year they have been bouncing around the idea of having a 'pay as you throw' rubbish collection system for waste.
some links
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5290060.stm
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=413335&in_page_id=2
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1837982.ece
OK now don't get me wrong we have a serious problem with waste disposal but there is some serious flaws with the plan.
At the moment all rubbish collection is provided by councils through council tax. Now obviously people are going to be unhappy with being taxed even more especially if there are not (likely) reductions in council tax. I'm not to bothered as long as the money raised is used on other environmental issues but there is no guarentee of this.
Next is the source of the problem the waste it's self. Most food items are needlessly wrapped in 2 or 3 different layers of wrapping and packaging. Just think how much landfill space we could save and how much less resources we would consume if we introduced legislation controlling the level of packaging on items.
Third is Trust, what is to stop people at night taking their rubbish out and dumping it in a neighbours wheelie bin just down the road? Also with this i can invisage alot more cases of fly-tipping and people burning the waste in back gardens.
So what does everyone else think?
Slave of the Beast
2007-11-17, 01:00
I'm not to bothered as long as the money raised is used on other environmental issues but there is no guarentee of this.
A political guarantee on an issue as small as this would in any case be near worthless.
Third is Trust, what is to stop people at night taking their rubbish out and dumping it in a neighbours wheelie bin just down the road?
Padlocks.
Also with this i can invisage alot more cases of fly-tipping...
Absolutely. Or just dumping it at the end of the street; the council still has to deal with it.
I honestly don't see what the problem people have in making so much trash...
A couple of years ago I thought I'd get rid of my "trash" bin, and add a couple more plastic bins for recycling instead. Organic matter was disposed of in compost. I lived in an apartment with 3 people, all doing this. At the end of the month we'd filled up one paper grocery bag worth of non-recyclable things.
It really isn't that hard to stop leaving trails of filth everywhere you go. In fact, it's easy enough that I can understand fining people in some way for producing such an excess amount.
Padlocks.
so what there going to put a padlock on EVERY wheelie bin (remember we have 2) aswell as we have to secure the boxes for paper, glass and plastic. Thats going to up the cost and take alot lot longer.
On average bin men in urban areas can collect from 600-800 houses a day. Even it takes only 5 seconds to get of and reattach the lock with each house having 2 bins it would take an extra 2 hours to complete the same job a day.
here they use a big claw type thing on the truck to tip it into the truck. the have padlocks to undo would just fuck the whole system.
but if you start charging people for the amount of rubbish they throw out then dumping would become a huge issue. you have a nice clean and empty tip, but the park is full of shit.
Slave of the Beast
2007-11-19, 15:29
so what there going to put a padlock on EVERY wheelie bin...
At what point did I say I supported the idea of using padlocks?
At what point did I say I supported the idea of using padlocks?
At what point did i critisise your point of view? I was just stating that it would generally be a bad solution to add padlocks to wheelie bin.
Trousersnake
2007-11-25, 13:56
I somehow overlooked this thread. Nonetheless...
I don't think this concept could work from a waste budgeting perspective.
It all makes real sense but perhaps not in dollars and cents.
In my government area we have tried many a time to introduce a standard waste charge to all residents whether they have a regular waste collection or not (the area consists of some rural places that have to manage their own waste). Sounds kinda harsh hitting these people that don't have their bin collected with a 'waste charge', until you factor in we have street bins for visitors to the town centres, and the landfills they go to are manned most of the time (obviously not 24/7) so it's always a convenient time to drop off their rubbish. It has never been adopted.
Common sense sometimes can't be factored in, which is disappointing but factual.
Rolloffle
2007-11-27, 21:29
Thank God I don't live in your shitty, over-taxed, orwellian, environmental nut country...
If the government enacted some crazy shit like that here, I would dump all of my garbage on government land (eg. parks). :) It seems like a fitting protest.
Thank God I don't live in your shitty, over-taxed, orwellian, environmental nut country...
If the government enacted some crazy shit like that here, I would dump all of my garbage on government land (eg. parks). :) It seems like a fitting protest.
You sir, are an asshole.
Fuck up the parks, they'll just turn 'em into office buildings.
Trousersnake
2007-11-28, 11:23
You sir, are an asshole.
Fuck up the parks, they'll just turn 'em into office buildings.
Don't feed the troll sir.
KwinnieBogan
2008-01-03, 06:33
Rubbish Tax: The reutrn of the 19th century Thames.
Rolloffle
2008-01-03, 09:00
You sir, are an asshole.
Fuck up the parks, they'll just turn 'em into office buildings.
Then I'll bring my trash straight to the front steps of the nearest government building and dump it there. :mad:
Seriously, a garbage tax? What type of idiocy is that? Obviously it would just encourage littering & dumping. There's no way I'd pay for trash pickup when there are plenty of good public places to dump for free.
Trousersnake
2008-01-03, 22:35
Then I'll bring my trash straight to the front steps of the nearest government building and dump it there. :mad:
Seriously, a garbage tax? What type of idiocy is that? Obviously it would just encourage littering & dumping. There's no way I'd pay for trash pickup when there are plenty of good public places to dump for free.
It's not a tax? It's a fee for using a service. If people abused the service by littering then they would make it a tax and morons like yourself would be more likely to use it rather then dump rubbish because you would be paying for it, and paying for it and not using it would be stupid now wouldn't it?
SOTB said padlocks then said he didn't support the concept, the concept wouldn't be used if I can imagine what sort of collection you have for a second - It would mean collection trucks would have to stop and unlock every bin, empty it, and re-lock it so a walker0-by didn't put something in afterwards. It would take too much time and a city worth of collections would never be done, the commissioning of new trucks and collectors would outweigh the revenue this service would bring in thus is straight out a wrong answer.
Slave of the Beast
2008-01-04, 11:57
SOTB said padlocks then said he didn't support the concept, the concept wouldn't be used if I can imagine what sort of collection you have for a second - It would mean collection trucks would have to stop and unlock every bin, empty it, and re-lock it so a walker0-by didn't put something in afterwards. It would take too much time and a city worth of collections would never be done, the commissioning of new trucks and collectors would outweigh the revenue this service would bring in thus is straight out a wrong answer.
God forbid that people should be required to open them on collection day. Oh no, that would require far too much planning...
Rolloffle
2008-01-04, 12:08
God forbid that people should be required to open them on collection day. Oh no, that would require far too much planning...
Doesn't matter, if there was ever a rubbish charge I would just dump my trash in public parks to save money.
I'd even print up and post flyers (on non-recycled paper) to encourage others to do the same. Together, we'd spit in the face of an oppressive regime and environmentalist morons. :)
Trousersnake
2008-01-04, 12:11
God forbid that people should be required to open them on collection day. Oh no, that would require far too much planning...
You mean the owners?
Haha I thought you were supposed to be smart? Urban planning ain't my strong point it's just one of my jobs...so I assumed you meant the owners have to unlock it on the day.
Systems thinking can't take peoples stupidity into account. So SOTB is my neighbour and he leaves for work at 9am, the bin is collected at 10am and I'm unemployed and can't afford bin collections, in goes my rubbish into your bin between those hours. Thanks SOTB!
Slave of the Beast
2008-01-04, 12:51
Haha I thought you were supposed to be smart?
What you don't seem to realize is that I enjoy watching you blundering into making obvious responses.
I don't know what simple technology you bogans have but (in keeping with our ever increasing Big Brother culture) there are bins available in Britain that can tell how much rubbish you've put in. You shouldn't need to be an electronics genuis to work out the rest for yourself. Yes it will be a relatively expensive, surveillance heavy, loophole-ridden system, but then I never said otherwise.
Trousersnake
2008-01-04, 13:24
What you don't seem to realize is that I enjoy watching you blundering into making obvious responses.
I don't know what simple technology you bogans have but (in keeping with our ever increasing Big Brother culture) there are bins available in Britain that can tell how much rubbish you've put in. You shouldn't need to be an electronics genuis to work out the rest for yourself. Yes it will be a relatively expensive, surveillance heavy, loophole-ridden system, but then I never said otherwise.
You make a logically thinking head hurt...ok there's no point me typing this slow so you'll just have to READ IT SLOWWWW.
A padlock, hmm, so...the user unlocks and relocks it each and everytime they put rubbish in considering they don't want other people putting rubbish in and thusly making their bin weigh more therefore more $$$ ching ching, costly for them.
If a padlock is on the bin when it is out for collection, it needs to be taken off...manually. If the USER does so and aren't waiting then and there when the truck comes there lies a risk in freeloaders depositing rubbish into these unguarded bounties.
Intelligent bin design that says how much has been deposited? Heh well, do you like clutching straws? I don't, renders them useless, I'm no sucker and don't use straws but still...
Think about that, your bin has a worthless technology in it (yeah right :rolleyes: ) telling you that you put in 24kg in it, but you get charged for 30kg...omg someone put 6kg in my bin?!? Oh the humanity. Does the truck driver know this? Well he might know it was 30kg if they weigh it, but that someone added to your mass...no chance in hell. Who you gonna tell? Why are they caring? They just have the issue of moving 30kg and don't give a shit you left your bin open.
Eghhh why am I trying to reason with you?
Considering this IS about money, saving it, dealing with it sensibly, making it etc. And you come in talking about all sorts of tech and surveillance and whatever else.
You gave the stupidest conceivable approach to a crime and are defending it to it's death. You are a moron.
Stick to your UFO's in the sky or whatever you talk about loser.
Trousersnake
2008-01-04, 13:31
And hey Chav fag, I wouldn't be trying to talk if this is a concept you've just come to throw around the tea sipping cranium.
Slave of the Beast
2008-01-04, 15:01
You shouldn't need to be an electronics genuis to work out the rest for yourself.
*Sun baked Australian brain attempts to formulate a response.*
You are a moron.
Well, if nothing else, at least you can self analyze.
Trousersnake
2008-01-04, 15:15
Well, if nothing else, at least you can self analyze.
Never seen you step foot into T&T. I'd love for lj to tear you to shreds in ways even I couldn't ;)
Yeah I'm the pretty much the best at everyhing :)
And although you were reduced to off-topic drivel talk in attempts to side step being fucking PWWWWNED I'm not at all affected by sunlight, like the environment I work for I know how to survive it also, you know cause I'm smart like that.
That and you spelt a word describing a level of intelligence incorrectly, and then quoted it. Go ahead you can fix it now and make out like I was lying but at least I can still laugh.
Are you going away now? I hope so, I sure don't need to endure anymore of your stupidity.
Slave of the Beast
2008-01-04, 18:08
Absolutely. Or just dumping it at the end of the street; the council still has to deal with it.
Trouserbogan, why would I go to lengths to explain myself when I stated six weeks ago that a rubbish-tax system would be pointless because of the above loophole? I came to the conclusion that such a discussion would be pointless, you on the other hand had to rake shit up. Now I've told you to work it out for yourself because I'm really not that interested, you think you've 'won'.
Honestly, why don't you just grab another Victoria Bitter from the fridge, and go back to watching Neighbours in your wife-beater and stained underpants?
Yeah I'm the pretty much the best at everyhing :)
That and you spelt a word describing a level of intelligence incorrectly, and then quoted it. Go ahead you can fix it now and make out like I was lying but at least I can still laugh.
Everyhing? Granted I made a minor typo, but you... you're just the greatest. :rolleyes:
Prometheus
2008-01-05, 06:35
I used to live in an area that charged per pickup. The way we did it was you would go to a local supermarket and buy these sticky tags. They were $6 for a sheet of 5. When you take the trash out, you simply wrap one around the handle of your bin, and stick it to itself.
Fairly simple, but still a pain in the ass.
deus-redux
2008-01-05, 14:51
Don't know how we'd cope here.
I don't even have my own wheeliebin. The 4 blocks of apartments in one of which I live all use one set of big bins for all trash. No recycling, either.
-deus-
Unregistered
2008-02-17, 12:03
It's an interesting concept, I wonder how people in apartments would go though, in mine for example we don't have wheelie bins, there's two dumpsters per floor (one for recycling, one for garbage). All-in-all though the system would be abused too much to even bother implementing it.
ComradeAsh
2008-02-23, 15:34
Its a stupid idea. You pay rates for a fucking reason.
That said, we have a 'tidy yard' guy who will pick up a giant hessian bag once a month for $30 which you can toss pretty much anything into.
But thats a private contractor.
glutamate antagonist
2008-02-27, 11:20
It's a retarded idea. I can just see in my head the task force given the problem of sorting out how to deal with the problem of waste, and then rather than coming up with an effective government solution...
"Hey! This shouldn't be OUR problem! Let's just lump a tax on rubbish, and make it THEIR problem!"
"OK, nice one Sam. Now we can all leave early. Good work, everyone."
Personally, I think that instead there should be a tax on companies for generating the waste in their product, paid in the price of the product. So your microwave meal is 20p more, but you've already paid the cost of landfilling it.
I think as for separating out recyclables, there could be a large local bin which you put paper, glass etc. in. At the moment these exist, but are only 'local' to the extent that it's a five minute car journey, so those who don't drive are fucked. And having to make a car journey to save the environment defeats the purpose, really.
A large reinforced barcoded bag [like for environmental hazards] could be delivered each month to every house, who then fill it up with the recyclables themselves, and leave it out for the binmen to take. This would only be monthly, since it does take a while to fill bags, and weekly bins would never end up full, wasting the time for binmen and being inefficient. The barcode would tell the government who the bag belongs to, so if somone's putting the wrong things in [a major problem if people mix non-recyclable plastic with recyclables], they be found out, and fined.
Organics and non-recyclables obviously go into the landfill like they do today. Maybe a third bag could be used for biodegradables.
Prometheus
2008-02-28, 05:14
Those are some truly excellent ideas. Write to your congressman or city planner, or whoever has influence over that stuff.
To the person who said he'd just throw his rubbish in the park, you are a fucking idiot. End of.
Third is Trust, what is to stop people at night taking their rubbish out and dumping it in a neighbours wheelie bin just down the road? Also with this i can invisage alot more cases of fly-tipping and people burning the waste in back gardens.
A lot of less civilized people will just dump their garbage in a ditch somewhere. Or on on the side of the road a few street from their own house.