Testing the sensitivity of flash?

[spencetron]

Ive started to get back into pyro in the last few months and Ive finally decided to buy perchlorate and india dark Al for flash. Now, I have quite a bit of experience with NC, mekp, NG, AP, ANAP and other high explosives; so I know the sensitivity and all around characteristics of each. But my only real experience with low explosives is with Bp, which doesnt really help my situation any because its so damn stable.
Ive been trying to determine how safe (or dangerous) flash powder is, exactly. I tried to set off around .5g with the shock of a hammer but that failed to ignite the FP no matter how hard I struck it. Now i dont want those results to throw me into a false sense of security when handling flash powder. So Ive been treating this stuff like I would acetone peroxide just to be on the safe side but I know AP dets with a moderate strike with a hammer in the same situation. Is there any sort of test i can do to figure out how much stress FP can take before igniting? Am I just being too paranoid?

[Fate]

Things to think about:

- Friction (not just impact)
- Moisture (promoting oxidation of your metal powder)
- Ambient Heat (or direct sunlight)
- Exposure to Reagents (oils from your skin, acids, environmental hazards)

Simple perchlorate/aluminum flash is regarded to be one of the more stable mixtures, owing to its use in commercial fireworks.

[asilentbob]

Another thing to think about is static electricity. Static electricity around you varies somewhat with moisture. High humidity is actually safer when making flash, despite how much it sucks for drying stars and such.

[Haircut Shoes]

Use a ziplock bag to mix the composition.

[spencetron]

Use a ziplock bag to mix the composition.

erm, no. I use the diaper method, which is rather tried and true. Id imagine using a ziplock would generate a lot more friction, and static electricity.

[Haircut Shoes]

Still works, and has always mixed great for me. Any idiot knows not to mix more than 70 grams at once anyways.

[dawn_of_devastation]

Still works, and has always mixed great for me. Any idiot knows not to mix more than 70 grams at once anyways.

I think that would probably remove at least your torso. It's always good to be extra paranoid.

Also, I use the diaper method, but there's always small chunks (of perchlorate) that I'll sort of crush with a spoon. This is probably not too safe and I should likely invest in a sifter...

[stupid noob]

Using a baggy is just plain reckless and dangerous.

[Mokothar]

Yeah, you're better off making an enveloppe out of wax paper/sandwich paper.

Mind that prolongued exposure to sunlight might change your compositions sensitivities entirely.

[Jeff McSmashins]

I heard it was 50 grams was the max.

[The Death Monkey]

I've personally microwaved 1 kg of FP. Always a good way to dry it off.

[spencetron]

I've personally microwaved 1 kg of FP. Always a good way to dry it off.

LOL, I hope you're kidding. I only mix up 20grams at a time. If I want a 40g device, I mix up two separate batches.



As of yet, I have been unable to ignite small piles of FP with friction/ shock alone. Ive tried grinding it between metal and concrete surfaces as well striking at with a hammer but no avail. I'm going to try to test static shock next. i don't think perc/Al is sensitive to moisture so I wont test that. And my flash never comes in direct contact with sunlight. I guess you can say I feel a little more comfortable around flash powder.

[Dark_Magneto]

That's be great if it exploded out the screen on the microwave door and fried his eyeballs.

As of yet, I have been unable to ignite small piles of FP with friction/ shock alone. Ive tried grinding it between metal and concrete surfaces as well striking at with a hammer but no avail. I'm going to try to test static shock next. i don't think perc/Al is sensitive to moisture so I wont test that. And my flash never comes in direct contact with sunlight. I guess you can say I feel a little more comfortable around flash powder.

Always better to be paranoid regardless and stay in 1 piece.

[Chainhit]

You know, shaking it up in little non-plastic pouch seems like a good idea. I bagmix most mixtures, but 70/30 I usually diaper in a newspaper. (perchlorate/aluminum)

I limit myself to 50 grams, anything more and it becomes a bitch to mix properly, and stupidly dangerous.
But honestly, im wreckless. You should do it in 20 gram batches, it takes all of 5 minutes to mix, you might as well make too. I mean shit, i feel so lazy when I think about it, its a worthless risk to take really, you bearly save any time and all you get for it is forumites telling you that its dangerous and your dumb.

With star mixes and shit though, I just put it in a sour cream container. Likewise with H3 (which I shouldent do) and black powder.

[Mokothar]

H3 is remarkably safe when it comes to static, just keep it the fuck away from matches or other sources of sulpher.

[spencetron]

H3 is remarkably safe when it comes to static, just keep it the fuck away from matches or other sources of sulpher.

Which reminds me, ive been on many composition databases and ive never really seen any H3 varients using perchlorate, only chlorate. I have a pretty big excess of perc, could i use it for H3?

[Chainhit]

im no sure if it will burn very good, i found it necessary to wet my h3/dextrine down, and seive it, to get larger particle size, which burns much faster.

try it out, i have pretty muhc no perchlorate. just make a 10 gram sample and mix with like .1 grams of dextrine, put it through a strainer and do a burn test.

i think there were some kclo4/charcoal mixtures on the apc forums, but i seem to renember the chlorate based h3 giving better results

[Mokothar]

Yeh, charcoal is a poor reducer, and perchlorates are a lot more stable than chlorates.

[asilentbob]

KP is one of shimizu's comps like H3... it has KClO4, S, and C... Its useful for breaking small shells.

[ExtremeODD]

Damn 50 is a limit?! Or should be limit I mean, because a few years ago when I was really into making FP I would do at the very least 100g batches. Then again I knocked it off after watching ~70g of FP self contain and explode (took out a 3 foot pile of rock hard snow, and blew a heavy wrench 30+ feet in the air).

[asilentbob]

There is no set in stone limit that I know of... Its just not a good idea to make much at all and everyone will throw around what they personally feel or have read from someone else... Personally I would say make as much in one batch as is needed if its under about 25g, if it takes more make exactly how much is needed though measuring out separate piles and diapering on different pieces of paper... Doing them one at a time to minimize the chances of an accident igniting everything.

Some amateur pyros with many more years of experience than myself make multi-pound aerial salutes diapering large ammounts of flash with news paper... However they still do not store it other than in the completed sealed up aerial salute... And the mix with goggles, respirator, gloves, full cotton cloths, grounded, etc...

[Mokothar]

Limits primarely pertain to the method of mixing. A remote-activated plastic-under-teflon-blender in a shed in the middle of bumfuck? Sky's the limit! I aim at +/- 5g when working by hand myself, at home.

(to monitoring agencies)

Which I don't ever really do of course, just giving advice here.

[The Death Monkey]

Limits primarely pertain to the method of mixing. A remote-activated plastic-under-teflon-blender in a shed in the middle of bumfuck? Sky's the limit! I aim at +/- 5g when working by hand myself, at home.

(to monitoring agencies)

Which I don't ever really do of course, just giving advice here.

I regularly mix kilos of flashpowder at a time.... the key is, don't drop your cigarette while shaking the jar violently.

When I have a kid, I'm going to give it three toys... a steel bar, a piece of flint, and a heaping pile of flashpowder in his crib. It'll be a blast! LOL PUN KTHXBYE!

[hydroponichronic]

The only accidental ignition was when I was screwing around with chlorate/sulfur/sugar. Boredom impelled me to endanger myself, but out of fear I only mixed like 1/2 gram of the stuff (bag method). I removed half the pile to a distance about three feet away, to light it (match on the end of a stick). When I lit the one pile the other pile also went off. I didn't expect that specifically, but I figured there would be a relatively high chance of something like that happening, so both piles were outside and on stuff that wouldn't burn if they went off. Needless to say, I can personally confirm that mixing chlorates and sulfur is a bad idea.

Other than that, though, I never had any problems with flash powder. Just don't add sulfur. I even mixed/ground (sulfurless) flash powders with a mortar and pestle (very small quantites, shitloads of protective gear on). If that's not friction, I don't know what is.

[iceshrike]

Curiosity almost killed the cat ;)

[stupid noob]

A person could make all kinds of uber sensitive mixtures and compounds using remote manipulation. Rig up your own to fit your own situation.

[The Death Monkey]

A person could make all kinds of uber sensitive mixtures and compounds using remote manipulation. Rig up your own to fit your own situation.

I prefer to mix my sensative powders next to an oily pile of rags on a hot day.







While chomping on a cigar...

[Mokothar]

Curiosity almost killed the cat ;)

Almost? (http://www.explosm.net/comics/926/)

[delusional_reality]

I heard that Sodium persulfate can make decent flash powder, So I went to maplin bought some persulfate and proceeded to test it out with 100 mesh 97.5% Sulfur and 200 mesh atomized Al powder.

Things I've learned
(1) it isn't flash powder, burns like slightly damp R-candy.
(2) it is insensitive
(3) don't waste your time