Twisted_Ferret
2008-04-28, 10:01
I've asked some of you this question directly, but I figured it would be good to have a thread devoted to it so everyone can see and comment. The question is:
Have you ever seen magick directly produce a physical effect?
That is, something like levitating or moving an object by magick/psychic powers alone, not something like cursing someone then hearing that they got sick a few weeks later. I would settle for even being able to move a piece of lint!
Really Long Explanation
I have long researched magic(k). It is a subject that fascinates me and always has. The problem, though, is that most magick disciplines require you invest a lot of time and effort into them... and I don't want to be in the position of working every day for four years at something only to have it turn out to be bullshit. That in mind, I've always searched for something that claims it can produce actual, verifiable results. Generally, magick traditions fall into one of two categories:
Wicca, Chaos Magick, etc. These are the traditions that don't even claim physical results are possible. Even the most "powerful" spell in this sort of magickal system will result in something indistinguishable from coincidence. No doubt practitioners gain much satisfaction in their work, and that's fine and good, but if a spell that requires an entire coven and half a night of preparation, ritual, and meditation will still only have a result like "may make it rain hard in the next month", well... I'm just not very interested.
The second category is that of the traditions that claim to produce useful and perceivable physical effects. A good example is a site on "forcecraft" I found: it contained simple invocations to make fire, for example. Always work, guaranteed, just recite it. You can probably guess how that turned out. Another, more reliable-looking site was "Tomekeeper's", I believe. It promised great things: with years of practice, you can even call down the lightning! I signed up and went on the forums, and asked: has anyone actually done this? Done ANYTHING, even make a dust bunny hop?
They just kind of shuffled their feet and mumbled and suggested that that wasn't what magick was about. Don't get me wrong - I try to be open-minded, and I certainly don't reject as worthless the magical systems that aim at more lofty or imperceivable results. I just desire, for my personal satisfaction, something that will eventually see me creating results that I can look at and know for sure it was me and my magic doing them.
I'm getting a little discouraged as of late, because I can't think of any test or situation that the mystic has come out on top in. For instance, Randi's challenge: surely someone should have come forward by now. I could maybe accept that they don't want the attention - I wouldn't - and perhaps Randi is a little biased, but it's surely not unworkable. Or take Rust's link in another thread, about the most powerful "dark magician" in India; not a thing he did worked at all, and it was all a test of his choosing. The same thing when astrologers tried their hand at matching people with horoscopes, or... well, you get the idea. It never works.
A reliable friend, and a lot of other people, have told me they can spin a "psi-wheel." The site "Psipog" is where a lot of them got their ideas, but unfortunately I think that site is another dud. Only a few members seem to have had any look, whereas there are literally hundreds of people saying "I've been trying for months what am I doing wrong." But psi-wheels seem to be a success; the problem is they're the only thing that is. No one that I know of has ever been able to move past them, making me think it's just the heat of their hands or something.
I have high hopes for this thread, though. Any help, advice, discussion, etc. is greatly appreciated. :) Questions? Comments? Answers?
Have you ever seen magick directly produce a physical effect?
That is, something like levitating or moving an object by magick/psychic powers alone, not something like cursing someone then hearing that they got sick a few weeks later. I would settle for even being able to move a piece of lint!
Really Long Explanation
I have long researched magic(k). It is a subject that fascinates me and always has. The problem, though, is that most magick disciplines require you invest a lot of time and effort into them... and I don't want to be in the position of working every day for four years at something only to have it turn out to be bullshit. That in mind, I've always searched for something that claims it can produce actual, verifiable results. Generally, magick traditions fall into one of two categories:
Wicca, Chaos Magick, etc. These are the traditions that don't even claim physical results are possible. Even the most "powerful" spell in this sort of magickal system will result in something indistinguishable from coincidence. No doubt practitioners gain much satisfaction in their work, and that's fine and good, but if a spell that requires an entire coven and half a night of preparation, ritual, and meditation will still only have a result like "may make it rain hard in the next month", well... I'm just not very interested.
The second category is that of the traditions that claim to produce useful and perceivable physical effects. A good example is a site on "forcecraft" I found: it contained simple invocations to make fire, for example. Always work, guaranteed, just recite it. You can probably guess how that turned out. Another, more reliable-looking site was "Tomekeeper's", I believe. It promised great things: with years of practice, you can even call down the lightning! I signed up and went on the forums, and asked: has anyone actually done this? Done ANYTHING, even make a dust bunny hop?
They just kind of shuffled their feet and mumbled and suggested that that wasn't what magick was about. Don't get me wrong - I try to be open-minded, and I certainly don't reject as worthless the magical systems that aim at more lofty or imperceivable results. I just desire, for my personal satisfaction, something that will eventually see me creating results that I can look at and know for sure it was me and my magic doing them.
I'm getting a little discouraged as of late, because I can't think of any test or situation that the mystic has come out on top in. For instance, Randi's challenge: surely someone should have come forward by now. I could maybe accept that they don't want the attention - I wouldn't - and perhaps Randi is a little biased, but it's surely not unworkable. Or take Rust's link in another thread, about the most powerful "dark magician" in India; not a thing he did worked at all, and it was all a test of his choosing. The same thing when astrologers tried their hand at matching people with horoscopes, or... well, you get the idea. It never works.
A reliable friend, and a lot of other people, have told me they can spin a "psi-wheel." The site "Psipog" is where a lot of them got their ideas, but unfortunately I think that site is another dud. Only a few members seem to have had any look, whereas there are literally hundreds of people saying "I've been trying for months what am I doing wrong." But psi-wheels seem to be a success; the problem is they're the only thing that is. No one that I know of has ever been able to move past them, making me think it's just the heat of their hands or something.
I have high hopes for this thread, though. Any help, advice, discussion, etc. is greatly appreciated. :) Questions? Comments? Answers?