Does the future health of this planet matter?

[TCStyle]

I do my part to keep this world clean for my family and I, but the more I think about it the more skepticism I have. It's a proven fact that humans can effect the Earth on a semi large scale over a long period of time. Now, this isn't to say I believe that over the last 300 years (British industrialization 1700's?) we, as a people, have cause as much damage as some radicals like to claim. Regardless, doesn't anyone else think that we (humans) will kill ourselves off way before Earth becomes uninhabitable or nonexistent? I Hitler almost killed off an entire people and that was without the use of nuclear bombs or other "WMD's". If there wasn't a system of checks in the United States Bush could end civilization right now? And even if the entire race isn't killed off if enough are it pretty much erases hundreds of years of knowledge.

thoughts?

[Slave of the Beast]

The Earth can take care of itself, I'm not so sure about the human race though.

We're fundamentally no different from the spear chuckers of 150-200,000 yrs ago from whom we're descended. Would you give charge of a thermonuclear arsenal to a bunch of suit-wearing caveman? Our technology is evolving 100's in not 1000's of times faster than we are, in 1852 mankind made his first successful attempt at powered flight, a little over a century later we were standing on the Moon. That's very difficult to quantify in evolutionary terms, but suffice to say that as a population the human race hasn't drastically become any smarter than it was 6 generations ago.

So I think it's quite possibly only a matter of time before we fiddle around with something that blows our collective heads off, because as a species we're simply too fucking dumb to safely use our own creations.

[Khouni]

Well, how about going back to the beginnings? Becoming "hunters and gatherers" again? Scientists believe that there were 2,5 million human beings on earth before we started settling down. But you know what? Settling down was a bad idea. We aren't any happier, we are just more. The few native tribes still existing today show that we would have been happier if we never gave up the old lifestyle. Ok, for getting back to the roots, most existing humans would need to be killed, so the survivors would be able to feed themself from the remaining wildlife and vegetation. But this could be done peacefully. You know, like, prohibiting couples from getting more than one child. Do this for, like, 50 years, and population would be reduced incredibly.
Or, if you don't want to be that radical, just do it the Amish way. Become farmers. Abolish stupid technology. Forget electricity. Forget damn stupid fucking governments like the American one! Forget stupid, senseless wars!

[fretbuzz]

Why on Earth would be abandon everything we've accomplished and discovered just to take a step backwards and live like hunter-gatherers? Last time I checked most of the hunter-gatherer tribes were annihilated by societies that domesticated crops and livestock and built complicated political networks. This allowed individual humans to become specialized and the political systems met the country's demands.

Not enough food production? Lets get some specialized architects to design an irrigation system to connect a nearby water source to a few specialized farmer's plantations which aren't yielding enough food due to lack of rain. Then lets get some specialized stonemasons to build said irrigation system while having a few specialized bureaucrats to oversee and plan out the construction. It all stems from steady domesticated food production and maintaining a surplus. Then people can specialize in other aspects of living rather then spend their days hunting food.

Our modern societies didn't get to where they are today by being stupid. Our system worked and was superior to other systems which are no longer practiced. Ask the inhabitants of the Chatham Islands how well hunter-gathering worked out for them...oh yeah, that's right, they were all killed off by New Zealand farming societies expanding due to specialized crafts like boat building.

Instead of stepping backward, lets leap forward and get the hell off this rock we call Earth. Lets expand human presence beyond this planet, it's our destiny.

[mayor of monkey town]

I hope that i will play a part in solving the environmental problems that challenge our civilization.

And its totally fucking doable.
Just requires things being a bit different, we dont have to abandon all the progress of the past but we need to be careful about how we progress into the future. Sustainability is the key.

Im a strong believer that the earth has a optimum carrying capacity, but im also a believer that an earth with nothing but human settlements is a shit fucking earth. We can live alongside nature if we change the way we manage our population and our settlements.
We dont have enough knowledge to control nature, we hardly understand it - but we can work on that, and we can change the world.

[Dread_Lord]

The future health of the planet only matters if you want humans to live on it.

[Pen0r Grigio]

Fretbuzz, ignore this if you were joking (I hope you were). If you were serious, then you are thinking in the destructive ways that your culture has taught you just like everyone else. But for everyone's sake, including your own, you have to open your mind.
Why on Earth would be abandon everything we've accomplished and discovered just to take a step backwards and live like hunter-gatherers?

This is the only good point you make. I will discuss it at the end.

Last time I checked most of the hunter-gatherer tribes were annihilated by societies that domesticated crops and livestock and built complicated political networks. This allowed individual humans to become specialized and the political systems met the country's demands.

All true statements. But just because one culture destroyed another culture doesn't mean that the stronger culture is better, lives more fulfilling happier lives, or lives within the sustainability of nature better. All it means is one culture had more bodies to throw at the other, better weapons, or more need to take over their land. All three of these criteria (large population, specialization intended for war, and increasing need of natural resources) destroy nature, decrease human happiness, and are the main bullet points of our present culture.

Not enough food production? Lets get some specialized architects to design an irrigation system to connect a nearby water source to a few specialized farmer's plantations which aren't yielding enough food due to lack of rain. Then lets get some specialized stonemasons to build said irrigation system while having a few specialized bureaucrats to oversee and plan out the construction. It all stems from steady domesticated food production and maintaining a surplus. Then people can specialize in other aspects of living rather then spend their days hunting food.

Sure, this works, sort of. But each area of land has a finite limit for the number of large mammals that it's resources can support. Any number above that that is reached via your outlined methods will diminish the quality of said land area. Another problem that we will run into shortly is this: What happens when the arable land runs out? Will we keep improving technology to up production at the cost of nature indefinitely, or will nature eventually crap out on us, leaving us with a population too large to live on the earth? I don't know about you, but I would rather stop the problem today than witness the mass starvation of the unlucky generation that takes one step over the line.

Our modern societies didn't get to where they are today by being stupid. Our system worked and was superior to other systems which are no longer practiced.

We are all humans. Our cultures differ, but none is smarter than the other. We need diverse world views, because not a single one is the "right" one. Our system is superior only at producing more and more humans and destroying cultures that don't think the same way we do.

Ask the inhabitants of the Chatham Islands how well hunter-gathering worked out for them...oh yeah, that's right, they were all killed off by New Zealand farming societies expanding due to specialized crafts like boat building.

Again, being killed doesn't make you wrong. Killing someone doesn't make you right.

Instead of stepping backward, lets leap forward and get the hell off this rock we call Earth. Lets expand human presence beyond this planet, it's our destiny.

I would not feel comfortable with our culture inhabiting other planets. Destroying ours has taken only 10,000 years or so. Imagine what havoc we would wreak in the universe if we found a way.

I find the natural world and universe to be quite beautiful and worthy of holding onto. The plan you have outlined would lead to it's putrification and eventual destruction. Therefore, I oppose it.

The first point you made, about us not stepping back to hunter-gatherers: We don't need to, and no one in their right mind would insist that we throw every good thing we have learned away. What we do need to do is find a way to treat our world with the same respect, care, and nurturing that humans have since the beginning, up until our current culture.