View Full Version : Producing fuel-grade ethanol from coffee pulp.
As a coffee producer I would like to enter this new and seemingly growing market.
As stated earlier, the pulp of the coffee bean is the part that contains the most sugars, with the advantage that it's thrown out as waste from the process.
So, guys, I need to enlist your help to develop a process to produce ethanol from the coffee pulp.
Thanks,
LavaRed
scovegner
2008-09-27, 21:27
As a coffee producer I would like to enter this new and seemingly growing market.
As stated earlier, the pulp of the coffee bean is the part that contains the most sugars, with the advantage that it's thrown out as waste from the process.
So, guys, I need to enlist your help to develop a process to produce ethanol from the coffee pulp.
Thanks,
LavaRed
Add yeast.
Leave for a week or two.
Distill.
stupid noob
2008-09-28, 04:38
I don't know why that douche locked your thread without moving it here, sorry bro.
I don't know why that douche locked your thread without moving it here, sorry bro.
Eh, no worries, a little DIY moving once in a while helps ;).
Add yeast.
Leave for a week or two.
Distill.
Where can I get yeast?
what temperatures, conditions, etc should I keep it at.
How do I distill?
I apologize, I'm just very new to all of this.
Thanks,
Lava
Where can I get yeast?
what temperatures, conditions, etc should I keep it at.
How do I distill?
I apologize, I'm just very new to all of this.
Thanks,
Lava
I think you need to go and do some research - pretty sure that noone here is gonna be able to walk you through all the steps you'll need to take to produce and market your fuel...
As far as getting the yeast and conditions - I'm sure a day on google will work wonders...
Also, try this - no idea if it's any use to you but will probably be worth a look.
Concise Encyclopedia of Bioresource Technology (rapidshare link) (http://rapidshare.com/files/99796795/ConEncBiTe.rar)
premire curvee or something like that ferments up to 16%, maybe 18.... I'm pretty sure there are genetically engineered yeasts that will go up to 22 or 25 percent.... you're still gonna have to distill though. I'd suggest vacuum.... more energy efficient I believe. Maybe molecular sieves, but I don't know enough to tell you...
Aerogone
2008-09-29, 11:25
Doesn't anyone see that the coffee pulp is lacking in carbs/sugar :mad:
You are better off using any other fruit...
I would on the other hand, send money for an alcoholic concoction made via steeping a good amount of coca leaves in the alcohol...
Doesn't anyone see that the coffee pulp is lacking in carbs/sugar :mad:
You are better off using any other fruit...
I would on the other hand, send money for an alcoholic concoction made via steeping a good amount of coca leaves in the alcohol...
The pulp is 44-50% carbohydrates, and the husk slightly higher. I would have thought that ~1/2 the dry weight is a reasonable proportion, but I am no expert...
Aerogone
2008-09-29, 15:03
The pulp is 44-50% carbohydrates, and the husk slightly higher. I would have thought that ~1/2 the dry weight is a reasonable proportion, but I am no expert...
Oh snap!
:o
I didn't realize what coffee "pulp" was.
Sorry.
Doesn't anyone see that the coffee pulp is lacking in carbs/sugar :mad:
You are better off using any other fruit...
I would on the other hand, send money for an alcoholic concoction made via steeping a good amount of coca leaves in the alcohol...
Coca plants don't grow here for some reason. I'm pretty sure someone would have tried it by now, and that it would be known, but since it hasn't I'll confidently assume no one has started to produce coca in Guatemala.
Then again, it was never a cultural element like it is in some andean countries.
First of all, ethyl alcohol is ethyl alcohol. There are not different grades - there are different concentrations obviously. Anyway, you need sugar content not starch content. You can break down those polysaccharides bastards to monosaccharides using enzymes. You can buy these from most home brew stores. After you have your sugar laiden pulp, take a hydrometer reading to make sure there is enough available sugar. Then add yeast. Take hydrometer readings until the mash has fermented thoroughly. Then you need to distill the mash. If you use a reflux still(you better unless you have a vacuum still around), you will only need to distill it once. I believe the distillate needs to be 95% abv to run pure in most ethanol ready engines and only 70% abv to run in ethanol ready engines mixed with gasoline. This is just a general run through, but it will set you on the right track. I'd recommend http://moonshine-still.com/ for the most detailed reflux still plan. Or, you could buy one on eBay. Best of luck to you.
stupid noob
2008-10-01, 00:02
Yes, there are grades, fuel grade means it will burn or combust without leaving a shitty residue that would fuck an engine up. Think for just a minute before you post please.
Yes, there are grades, fuel grade means it will burn or combust without leaving a shitty residue that would fuck an engine up. Think for just a minute before you post please.
No u.
Von Bass
2008-10-02, 15:40
No u.
Protip ; Using ~70% alcohol distilled in one pass using a home made pot still, is in fact, not going to contain nothing but H2O and EtOH.
Lol. Double negative.
OP, It might be more economically viable to somehow acquire a drinks manufacturing license, and then sell novelty 'coffee spirits' or something, market it as being the 'beverage for the true coffee enthusiast' or something, if you could get the licenses, you could probably make a fair amount on the side, assuming you have the capitol for the set up costs.
Protip ; Using ~70% alcohol distilled in one pass using a home made pot still, is in fact, not going to contain nothing but H2O and EtOH.
Lol. Double negative.
OP, It might be more economically viable to somehow acquire a drinks manufacturing license, and then sell novelty 'coffee spirits' or something, market it as being the 'beverage for the true coffee enthusiast' or something, if you could get the licenses, you could probably make a fair amount on the side, assuming you have the capitol for the set up costs.
I considered that. The problem is that in my corrupt country one family monopolizes spirits production, and so no one else will ever get authorized. Thats why my next experiment deals with fuel. I'm figuring fuel will hurt no one, at least for now.
Von Bass
2008-10-05, 18:08
I considered that. The problem is that in my corrupt country one family monopolizes spirits production, and so no one else will ever get authorized. Thats why my next experiment deals with fuel. I'm figuring fuel will hurt no one, at least for now.
Fair point, fair point. Pitch the idea to the monopoly companies? Either way, its going to take some experimentation to find out the conditions and amounts of yeast & booster food for optimum fermentation, so that may well be your primary target. Good luck!
Where can I get yeast?
what temperatures, conditions, etc should I keep it at.
How do I distill?
I apologize, I'm just very new to all of this.
Thanks,
Lava
LOL!!! if you dont even know where to get yeast then just give up now!
Sexual_Jesus
2008-10-07, 10:20
i like your idea von bass but would the alcohol actually taste like coffee, i mean bourbons made out of corn and it tastes completely different, how cool would it be to make caramel or chocalate and then let the yeast eat it to make caramel or chocalate alcohol... MmMmmm
Von Bass
2008-10-07, 15:34
i like your idea von bass but would the alcohol actually taste like coffee, i mean bourbons made out of corn and it tastes completely different, how cool would it be to make caramel or chocalate and then let the yeast eat it to make caramel or chocalate alcohol... MmMmmm
I know it would, most likely, taste of ... alcohol, but its the sort of novelty thing that would sell to idiots quite well. Also you could employ the same technique used in the original style method of making gin, and simply infuse it with coffee beans later. I imagine it would taste completely rank to be entirely honest.
Beserk_Penguin
2008-10-20, 17:29
I just skimmed through the thread and i saw that question if you could make chocolate alcohol.
As a matter of fact, you can. I know for sure that there is a alcohol-distillery only making chocolate schnapps. I watched a report about it a few months ago and found it very interesting. Probably going to take some time off and drive there to taste the stuff :P
wolfy_9005
2008-10-21, 10:58
Im sure you can get hold of 44(or 55) gallon drums. Just stick the pulps in there, with some yeast and maybe some sugar to start it, then cover with warm(35-38C) water and leave covered for a few weeks. Just look up how they make vodka using potatoes and substitute them for the coffee pulp.
Of course you will need to make sure everything is clean, ideally no rust in the drum,(or coat it some how), big wooden spoon/log carved into a stirring instrument, something to cut the pulp up(not sure on the size, maybe not), something to heat 44-55 gallons of water, lots of sugar, and of course yeast. They use yeast in bread making, so maybe try a store that specializes in it....dunno.
Then you need to distill it, which i cant really explain here. Anyone have a good guide/manual to the manufacture/brewing of spirits?
TheWhiteMan000
2008-10-26, 03:32
there are other problems with industrial production of alcohols: ie...what do you plan on doing with you methanol, isobutanol, butynol, and propanol, these chemicals are toxic and in the case of methanol, carcinogenic, i would try to find a farmer or company who would be willing to buy your product as an ADDITIVE to their own fuel use as in a tractor or a boiler, you wont get very far selling ethanol to cars.
DiamondX
2008-10-26, 04:59
there are other problems with industrial production of alcohols: ie...what do you plan on doing with you methanol, isobutanol, butynol, and propanol, these chemicals are toxic and in the case of methanol, carcinogenic, i would try to find a farmer or company who would be willing to buy your product as an ADDITIVE to their own fuel use as in a tractor or a boiler, you wont get very far selling ethanol to cars.
Yeast breaks down sugars into ethanol and very small amounts of methanol, and after the distillation it will be 90-100% ethanol.
Cloaked Dagger
2008-10-26, 05:13
Yeast breaks down sugars into ethanol and very small amounts of methanol, and after the distillation it will be 90-100% ethanol.
It isn't possible to maintain 100% ethanol once exposed to air, the ethanol sucks water out of the air to go back down to around 95-98% I believe. Though yes, after proper reflux distillation it will be over 90% ethanol, 90-95% I would say with the off chance of possibly up to 98%.
DiamondX
2008-10-26, 07:58
It isn't possible to maintain 100% ethanol once exposed to air, the ethanol sucks water out of the air to go back down to around 95-98% I believe. Though yes, after proper reflux distillation it will be over 90% ethanol, 90-95% I would say with the off chance of possibly up to 98%.
Thats not true. Ethanol forms an azeotrope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope) with water at a 95.6% alcohol to water ratio, meaning the highest percentage you can get with distillation only is 95%. There are other ways to raise it past there, like desiccants or benzene. The ethanol will absorb some moisture from the air, but not nearly as fast as you seem to think.
Cloaked Dagger
2008-10-26, 10:11
Thats not true. Ethanol forms an azeotrope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azeotrope) with water at a 95.6% alcohol to water ratio, meaning the highest percentage you can get with distillation only is 95%. There are other ways to raise it past there, like desiccants or benzene. The ethanol will absorb some moisture from the air, but not nearly as fast as you seem to think.
I never said anything about speed, though I probably did think it was a process that occurred faster than it actually does if you say this. The point is still valid though, once that ethanol is exposed to air it will start absorbing water again, at whatever speed it does and won't be 100% ethanol anymore. As for the rest of it, I was aware that it was possible to get higher concentrations of ethanol through means other than distillation(though I didn't know the means before), but I was only speaking of distillation. The point I was trying to make was that unless you specifically need anhydrous ethanol for some reason it is just too much of a pain in the ass to fuck around with and you are indeed only truly going to have around 95% ethanol.
Your post is of course still valid and goes more into detail than I was able to. So thank you for the education.
As a coffee producer I would like to enter this new and seemingly growing market. So, guys, I need to enlist your help to develop a process to produce ethanol from the coffee pulp.
Oh, shit. I really slacked off on this one for, like, a month or two. Hell, it was before the first thread (anyone got a link?) was locked...
Anyways... late-but-not-unposted.
The autodistilling trash bin
by Joe, pedo.
First, j00z will needz its "trash bin." Witness, and behold...
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6383/fig1ih1.jpg
Figure 1.1 never got made, btw; it was just going to be a cross-section of a self-sealing seal for the lid with instructions for screenprinting/stenciling in caulk. I'm assuming you can figure out your own airtight seal; however, you will want to keep the fermentation chamber anaerobic/anoxic to prevent the conversion of ethanol to acetic acid by the yeast. Luckily, yeast's production of a CO2 atmosphere helps with this.
As prior noted, the entire matter is autodistilling. Ergo, like all perpetual-motion machines, it must rely on various natural forces to "cheat," providing the energy for its continual, free operation. In this case, those forces are...
- phase flux.
- gravity.
(and once again, I just think it's really fuckin' cool that I get to use the phrase "phase flux" legitimately in several of my messages, though the last one was cooler)
Regarding phase flux, one can observe and test this by filling a 1l plastic bottle half-full of water, and putting a cap on it. Eventually, condensation will form on the top half. This happens because the water molecules fluctuate between their vapor phases and the liquid phase more natural to this temperature. We will be using this greatly in our self-maintaining perpetual motion machine.
Regarding gravity, you will have to keep this thing somewhat elevated. Liquid phases prefer to flow downhill rather than uphill.
Those with a basic science background will notice that these are the two fundamental forces upon which the entire earth and every fucking thing on it operates - although trees throw in a little kinky capillary action powered by phase flux at the leaf. This is no accident. If you will pardon something a little melodramatic, God is my inspiration as an engineer, because the works of man to date are hollow and corrupt.
That said, let's begin. Figure 1, the wastebin itself (and actual trashcans work well for this) is the most elevated piece of the entire system, and is based off a charming 1800s children's-primer-for-girls-slash-chemistry-and-manufacturing-tutorial. Yeah. Only the pedo would drag something out of the pedo golden age, wouldn't they? Nonetheless, it kicks ass, the book that is. As for the wastebin itself, it's pretty simple. The lid has a giant funnel glued in a hole in the lid, with the bottom aperture sealed off by caulk (if you don't have/are too lazy to pay for custom manufacture of thin glass cones, anyways). 'n much as if a young girl were distilling the perfumes of a very specific summer's day, that condensation on the funnel (which can be loaded with ice, though this would make it no longer very "autodistilling," or the top can be simply plated with mylar to encourage a lower-than-vessel temperature in direct sunlight) tends to drip down to its point and fall off... in the original, into the jar it was suspended over; in this case, to the pipe stuck up the ass of the wastebin and the joining sealed airtightly, with epoxy, superglue, caulk, or whatever the hell else is convenient.
As one may notice from the design, the alcohol drips through the "pipe up the ass" (slowly) and moves on into...
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9499/fig2mt6.jpg
Figure two. This is the dehydrating second distillation. You can probably have several figure 1s flow into single figure 2s - I'd guess between ten and twenty - without tipping the overflow pipe; however, the exact capacity ratio will depend on things ranging from the equipment constructed, to the environmental and climactic conditions of operation, to the conditions in which the fermentation is run. Should be about that range in most cases.
As you can see, the second autodistillation pot is similar to the first, with a few slight changes.
- it has an overflow pipe. This is because it is filled by an automated process with pretty much no supervision, rather than by hand. Finding help bright enough not to fill the pulp until it spills down the outlet tube is your responsibility.
- it has a margarita-style salt-rim, bay-bee! A bin wrapping around the entire edge of the bucket, over the elevation of the overflow pipe, which removes water vapor from the air, resulting in anhydrous ethanol precipitating into the outlet. This will have to be manually refreshed periodically; assuming sufficient size, this may take a couple of months with a low level of throughput due to climactic or other reasons, while an insane throughput frequently tipping the overflow in high heat may require changing every few hours or days. A whopping total of one single employee should, however, be able to manage a large industrial process without assistance, if they know how to work an oven.
Naturally, the overflow bin is bottled in a fashion which keeps at least most of the alcohol from evaporating, so as to be dumped in the figure 2 (F2) autodistiller during a low-throughput period.
Now, on its way out it passes through...
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/7300/fig3nl6.jpg
...the purification column. I'm imagining something involving screwing together some PVC tubing and some perforated plastic disks, here. Much like the salt rim, you'll have to change your activated carbon from time to time here, varying on your throughput. Unlike the salt, it cannot be well reused in a perfect setup, but the shit should be astoundingly fucking cheap in bulk. If neccesary, you could even make it yourself from the rest of the coffee plant, but a commercial supplier is more likely to already have equipment to make the many solvent pre- and post-washes cost effective. I think. Maybe not, who knows, it's cheap.
As an interesting side-note, adding an additional sodium bicarbonate layer would keep the system self-regulating; in case of oxygen contamination, the acetic acid produced would not only be scrubbed from the output by the bicarb, but carbon dioxide gas would flood back up the apparatus to further enforce an anoxic atmosphere. Like... every other purifier... it would have to be changed at a varying rate, depending this time equally on oxygen contamination as much as throughput.
The purpouse of the purifying column is to... purify. Specifically, the activated carbon will theoretically absorb an astounding fuckload of possible impurities from your ethanol.
Naturally, the output is stored for later fractional distillation. Then again, you might just wish to have your first batch analyzed by any avaliable assayer for the industry, as this shit will pump out craploads of what is theoretically high-quality lab-grade anhydrous ethanol all on its own. You would almost certainly be able to sell this shit as "pure" in a wide variety of markets without any legal problem without further work; nonetheless, the theoretical "next step" is the fractional distillation of an accumulated quantity of the end product. It's pretty simple, but LT would probably need a trace content analysis to be able to help you set that up anyway... so, might as well check to see how good it is as-is. Theoretically, it's fucking beautiful, but god knows what "yeast piss from coffee pulp" looks like, organically, in the first place... so, hey. Unpredictable. Probably good, if not we know what to do next, get it assayed once it's set up. :)
An astoundingly industrial-scale operation should cost less than $500 USD, if one already has some land and a barn. Most of that cost would be procuring large numbers of plastic trash bins. Try to avoid using any metal, as there is a slight risk that any acetic acid would carry traces through via mechanical droplet suspension. In a fuel use, such a contaminant would leave small lumps of high-carbon steel dust all throughout the piston chamber.
It's dirt cheap, takes shit for human or other resources to run, and is easy to whip up a giant ass factory in a few days - probably a single day, if one was rather determined.
Welcome to my world. This is why "transient" can be a high-upper-class job title if one do it right, 'cause I guarantee my "zilch" salary can buy more than you - any "you" out there - can afford, unless you rent me. :D
Have fun building your world...
Von Bass
2008-10-28, 11:34
Sod saving the above, I'm patenting it. :D
scovegner
2008-10-28, 12:10
Oh, shit. I really slacked off on this one for, like, a month or two. ...
Welcome to my world. This is why "transient" can be a high-upper-class job title if one do it right, 'cause I guarantee my "zilch" salary can buy more than you - any "you" out there - can afford, unless you rent me. :D
Have fun building your world...
*Bows down to the power of JoePedo* .... brilliant post :) .. I'm guessing a bit of heat and low humidity would help the process?
Sod saving the above, I'm patenting it. :D
fantastic plan !
Doh!
Already in the public domain....