View Full Version : Fucking underage consumption and open container ticket
whocares123
2008-09-28, 06:30
fuck my luck, first time in forever that i go out to drink. we were walking like a block back from this one house to some frat house where the people i were with lived, and just before we got there undercover vice cops stopped us. i got cited for open container and underage consumption, because i am 19 here in america...
so all i did was give the cop my ID and other information. he seemed like a nice guy, said he really didn't want to be out here doing this shit. i told him how i was studying criminology myself and we were both in fact libertarians who voted for ron paul. but still, i got two tickets for the above mentioned. apparently i have to show up in court in person because of the underage charge.
is there anything i can do to help myself here? even if i just had to pay a fine like through the mail or some shit, i would be happy with that. my sister is a lawyer, but she lives back home (i'm at university) so i dunno how that would work out with her representing me. i can't afford an attorney really.
The God Damn Devil
2008-09-28, 15:24
All I can tell you is what I got for underage consumption. Which was...
150 dollars in fines plus court costs
16 hours community service
4 weeks of alcohol information classes (but with initial assessment and my final one on one meeting, it was more like 2 months.)
plus some time on the shelf provided I get another alcohol related offense before I turned 21 (2 weeks I think it was)
This was back in '95-'96 and my understanding (and this could depend on where you live) court ordered classes are no longer a set time. When I went, there was 4, 7 and 12 week classes, one class per week, random piss test that you pay for (30 bucks a pop) and you pay for each visit (3 bucks for me because I was still in high school), amount decided by your income. But now they no longer release you on completion of the course, because there is no completion. They release you based on their assessment, which means, when ever the fuck they feel like it. Hopefully, it isn't like that where you have to go to court. It's complete bullshit they do this, but it is what it is.
Your sister has a JD? Have her call the prosecutors office.
I got the same two tickets and all I had to do was pay the fines and the court fee.
CK Apocalypse Edition
2008-09-30, 12:25
In NYC underage consumption is an arrest and fine in the best case scenario.
whocares123
2008-09-30, 14:50
Your sister has a JD? Have her call the prosecutors office.
I got the same two tickets and all I had to do was pay the fines and the court fee.
Do you live in the US? What state?
I met with an attorney this morning. He's a friend of my sister's and she recommended I use him because he's more familiar with the judges, prosecutors, and cases like these since this is a college town, and he works here and she does not. All costs taken into consideration, it looks like this shit is going to run me a good $1000. Fuck that hurts. I'll let you guys know what happens after everything is resolved.
wolfy_9005
2008-10-02, 10:18
Tell them to provide proof? Did they photograph the bottle, take a blood/breath test, etc to prove this?
Remember, no proof = no conviction :)
Then sue for damages.
Tell them to provide proof? Did they photograph the bottle, take a blood/breath test, etc to prove this?
Remember, no proof = no conviction :)
Then sue for damages.
They don't need substantial evidence. If the cop says you were intoxicated, it's his word against yours.
DerDrache
2008-10-02, 21:43
An4rchy?
eesakiwi
2008-10-03, 05:14
fuck my luck,. i got cited for open container and underage consumption, because i am 19 here in america...
.
That fukkin unreal, nobody in NZ would believe theres actually a law about that.
First, the age for buying alcohol is 18.
Anybody can drink alcohol, at any age.
You can drive drunk, as long as you don't exceed the limit.
Who gives a f if theres a open container of alcohol, its EMPTY!
When I got caught for shoplifting I had to go sit with a group of other minors who got caught with various misdemeanors--things like underage drinking, theft of services, vandalism, tobacco, etc. You'll pay a small fee and maybe do community service. Don't get a lawyer; if you're studying criminology you should know these things. It's a fucking misdemeanor.
rinseandrepeat()
2008-10-03, 13:59
drinking underage and with an open container, and youre looking at $1000 fines and/or alcohol testing, alcohol lessons, etc? Christ, how backwards and afraid is your country of people having a good time?
In the UK, they confiscate booze that is being drunk underage by teenagers that are loitering around. That's all.
Some areas that have recieved persistent complaints from residents are 'no alcohol zones' where a police officer can confiscate any open booze from anyone, and the max penalty you can get for not doing so when asked is a couple hundred quid....and in reality youll only get that if youve really pissed the cop off.
Knight of blacknes
2008-10-07, 08:44
lol in Holland drinking age of mild alcoholic beverage is 16. Cheers m8.
ComradeAsh
2008-10-14, 17:09
That fukkin unreal, nobody in NZ would believe theres actually a law about that.
First, the age for buying alcohol is 18.
Anybody can drink alcohol, at any age.
You can drive drunk, as long as you don't exceed the limit.
Who gives a f if theres a open container of alcohol, its EMPTY!
Idiot.
whocares123
2008-10-23, 15:49
Ok well my pretrial was today. It's kind of surprising how informal court is, I never even saw the judge come into the court room this time. Then there's just a few prosecutors and defense attorneys standing around, coming and going, and a bunch of low life types sitting around waiting to be called, or waiting for their attorney to talk to the prosecutor.
Anyway, because my citation occurred on a game day (university football game...even though that was early Saturday afternoon and my citation was late, late Saturday night, and completely unrelated to the game itself) they were unwilling to plea the charge down. They offered to drop the open container charge, but that was the same thing they offered at my arraignment. Because this is an "omfg game day violation!1" they want it to be taken seriously and they want people to know the penalties will be harsh, so I'm guessing the fine would be closer to the $1000 cap than to 0. And then I'd also owe like $150 in court costs. And there's always the possibility of going to jail, unlikely but who knows if they want to make an example with the whole game day thing, even if it's just for a day or two in jail. There are some odd circumstances to the incident that my attorney feels would cause it to be dismissed in a trial, so yes, we are actually taking a fucking underage drinking ticket (1st degree misdemeanor though) to trial. I won't discuss it until it's over and done with, but he seemed confident in having it dismissed. If it is dismissed, then I would not owe any court costs, and I think what I would have to pay him would still be less than if I had just plead guilty today. Plus it's not money going to support this ridiculous fucking law.
Maybe this will be a small victory for the American 18-20 crowd? Hopefully.
DerDrache
2008-10-23, 16:58
Ok well my pretrial was today. It's kind of surprising how informal court is, I never even saw the judge come into the court room this time. Then there's just a few prosecutors and defense attorneys standing around, coming and going, and a bunch of low life types sitting around waiting to be called, or waiting for their attorney to talk to the prosecutor.
Anyway, because my citation occurred on a game day (university football game...even though that was early Saturday afternoon and my citation was late, late Saturday night, and completely unrelated to the game itself) they were unwilling to plea the charge down. They offered to drop the open container charge, but that was the same thing they offered at my arraignment. Because this is an "omfg game day violation!1" they want it to be taken seriously and they want people to know the penalties will be harsh, so I'm guessing the fine would be closer to the $1000 cap than to 0. And then I'd also owe like $150 in court costs. And there's always the possibility of going to jail, unlikely but who knows if they want to make an example with the whole game day thing, even if it's just for a day or two in jail. There are some odd circumstances to the incident that my attorney feels would cause it to be dismissed in a trial, so yes, we are actually taking a fucking underage drinking ticket (1st degree misdemeanor though) to trial. I won't discuss it until it's over and done with, but he seemed confident in having it dismissed. If it is dismissed, then I would not owe any court costs, and I think what I would have to pay him would still be less than if I had just plead guilty today. Plus it's not money going to support this ridiculous fucking law.
Maybe this will be a small victory for the American 18-20 crowd? Hopefully.
You should contact a newspaper.
You should contact your dean of students.
Fixed.
Mine spoke at an event one time. I swear she was the most liberal person I've ever met. No crime was too big to get kicked out of the university for her. Seriously, talk to this person, take the counseling he/she offers in exchange for him/her helping you in court.
DerDrache
2008-10-25, 07:36
Fixed.
Mine spoke at an event one time. I swear she was the most liberal person I've ever met. No crime was too big to get kicked out of the university for her. Seriously, talk to this person, take the counseling he/she offers in exchange for him/her helping you in court.
Not a bad idea, I suppose, but at best she would just be a character-witness, right? If he gets media exposure, then that would be the first step in getting rid of bullshit charges like that. I mean seriously...a 20 year old college student paying out the ass to go to college, and then having to go to court and pay large fines over a beer? The media would have a field day with this. Once there's more awareness then you can easily persuade people to petition or protest. College students love that shit.
I know you won't take it that far, but it's food for thought. I'm sure your uni has a newspaper (or 5), so...at the very least you should write out an email and tell them your story.
whocares123
2008-11-19, 18:38
I mean seriously...a 20 year old college student paying out the ass to go to college, and then having to go to court and pay large fines over a beer? The media would have a field day with this. Once there's more awareness then you can easily persuade people to petition or protest. College students love that shit.
Except that's exactly what happens here just about every day and definitely every weekend. This year especially, as for whatever reason, they have decided to crack down on open container violations, especially during home football games, as well as underage drinking.
My charges were dismissed today. :D Didn't have to have a trial. The prosecutor laid out a deal that they would dismiss my case if I agreed to pay the court costs today. Court costs were $101. There will be nothing on my record now and I won't have to worry about expungement or anything because it was dismissed. Woot.
The odd circumstances in my case were that both my roommate and I were stopped by the same officers at the same time and place, we were both written tickets, but then my roommate was given a deal by one of the officers who said basically: "don't tell anyone about this, but if you don't get in trouble for another 2 weeks, I'll rip up this ticket and it'll be like it never happened. But if anyone finds out about this, I will make sure you go to jail." So that faggot basically got off with a warning while I had to go to 3 court dates pay $500 to an attorney and $101 to the court, when we both were doing the same thing and cooperated with the officers equally. I really wish we weren't both white males so I could sue the department for discrimination on some grounds. They would probably settle.
So my lesson learned here is not that underage drinking is wrong; it is that if you push the criminal justice system and remain stubborn, at least in petty offenses like this, you have a good chance of coming out on top. Judges and prosecutors don't like to see cases like this still open after two months. Had I plead guilty at my arraignment with no attorney, like most underage drinking violators do, I probably would've had to pay about $500 in fines and court costs, gone to some gay alcoholic classes, and had a 1st degree misdemeanor on my record for at least a year...and then would've had to hire an attorney and go back to court in one year to get it expunged if I so cared. But because I pushed them, I took up time in their overcrowded court room and so they realized what the police should've realized in the first place: that there are more important crimes to worry about.
Okay, now I'm putting two and two together.
I would imagine that the reason they cut deals like that is that it saves paperwork, man hours and the overworked court system that you mentioned. It's expensive to deal with court cases, so yeah, a petty offense can often be dealt with in fashion such as as this. Don't become a repeat offender, though, because in these parts, they seem to be willing to forgive and forget once, but a second time means you get the book thrown at you.
I don't know how much saying the officer cut a deal would've helped (now that I know the details of your situation). If he didn't file a report on the incident, as far as the law is concerned, your friend didn't have any problems with the situation. I'd be willing to bet that his remark of "no more trouble for two weeks" is because he didn't plan to file a report, because I find it highly unlikely that he'd be aware of whether your roommate got in trouble again, unless there was certainty that he'd be the arresting officer.
In other words, he was blowing smoke up your roommate's ass, but you're the one who got bent over and screwed.
But hey, it could've been worse, yeah?
whocares123
2008-11-19, 22:20
Yeah, just cost me $600 I need for school. Ha I should make my roommate pay half of that. God he's a fucktard. He's completely the wrong person to give such a break to, he's so oblivious and he's continued to go out drinking every weekend since...even the weekend during his "probation" when he told me he was just going to go to his mom's house to play it safe. Then he ended up coming back to campus just in time for Saturday night because "he was bored."
Ah well. It's over. I'll be 21 in about 11 months so if I can last that long...
Oh, you said how they don't give such great deals to repeat offenders. I understand that, but since I wasn't found guilty, if I were to be charged again, wouldn't I still be a first time offender? Cause nothing is on my record, so I assume the prosecutor and/or judge would not be able to use a case that was dismissed against me.
Yeah, just cost me $600 I need for school. Ha I should make my roommate pay half of that. God he's a fucktard. He's completely the wrong person to give such a break to, he's so oblivious and he's continued to go out drinking every weekend since...even the weekend during his "probation" when he told me he was just going to go to his mom's house to play it safe. Then he ended up coming back to campus just in time for Saturday night because "he was bored."
Ah well. It's over. I'll be 21 in about 11 months so if I can last that long...
Oh, you said how they don't give such great deals to repeat offenders. I understand that, but since I wasn't found guilty, if I were to be charged again, wouldn't I still be a first time offender? Cause nothing is on my record, so I assume the prosecutor and/or judge would not be able to use a case that was dismissed against me.
I wouldn't think they can use that as a cumulative punishment, but what they can do is look up previous contacts with the police. If you have had numerous contacts with police for similar petty offenses, I'd put money on them not being as forgiving. While the charge was dismissed, the police report is still in the archive somewhere, and they won't hesitate to use that in order to influence your sentencing if you were charged at a later date.
So yeah, I agree, it's best just to keep yourself out of trouble for the duration until you turn 21, in which case you're golden.