View Full Version : Disillusioned with college?
whocares123
2009-01-08, 17:54
Me and DerDrache were talking about what you really learn in college, and he actually said something that sounded smart to me. We get a lot of knowledge here, but no skills. In contrast, a trade school or certification from a community college would give you skills, not really focusing on the knowledge part. To me, that's what I want to be learning. Skills. That's what I want to be paying out the ass for. I like the subject I'm studying and all, criminology, but when I'm buried in homework or sitting through a boring theory lecture, I just want to yell why the fuck does this cost me $20,000 a year and what is my motivation for doing it anyway? College just feels like an extension of high school, except it costs money. I guess if I had to do it all over again, I would've went to community college, learned a SKILL, and got a job doing that. But then what? I would've been making $12/hr and wishing I had a college degree? Maybe. People that go that short education route don't make much money, but they don't starve. And most importantly, they don't have thousands and thousands in student loan debt. So what's better in the long run? Fuck if I know.
Just a rant because I'm wishing to either be graduating soon or dropping out. But I know I can't drop out because it would make this all a waste of time and money, even if it turns out to be later on anyway. I'm going to get my fucking piece of paper saying I have an oh so coveted bachelor's degree, and then go from there. Maybe go from there to community college, heh.
What route have you chose to take and why? College? Community college? Trade school? Just gonna wing it with your high school diploma?
DerDrache
2009-01-08, 18:03
Trade jobs pay more like 20/hour, I think, and if you move up the ranks in various fields, you can be making like 50k+ a year. That's in contrast to being an unskilled laborer, and working at dead-end jobs in fast-food or stores.
Anyways, my main point was that we enter college with no experience or skills, and we leave with no experience or skills, and we're somehow supposed to be able to get jobs. Instead of pushing us to get a Bachelor's right away, they should have pushed us to go to trade school first, and then get a Bachelor's. I mean, if you had to pay for your own college, it would be MUCH easier if you had access to decent-paying skill-based jobs, instead of just shitty minimum wage work. I guess that's what some people do, but I know that it was basically drilled into my head (and the heads of my peers) throughout my entire youth that I was supposed to go to college right after high school.
I'm of the opinion that you should start your bachelor's right away if you don't want to waste time. For example, if you're going to become a computer scientist, wouldn't it be more beneficial in the long run to use those 2+ years you would've spent learning whatever trade you chose with an actual CS job? If you want to become a scientist, the skills you learn will be in labs, and you'll only get those while at university. If you're an engineer, internships will be your main thing, and it's easier to find those if you're actually working towards an engineering degree. If you want to become a doctor, do you really want to postpone your 12+ years in school by 2 more? The same argument could be made for a lot of careers.
Right now I'm in college working towards my bachelor's, hopefully after that I'll go to med school.
Hurray for being in school forever!
Crystal Antlers
2009-01-09, 04:00
yeah, I've been on trips to possible future employers as an engineer and from going to offices and labs, and from talking to seniors, I've pretty much gotten the idea that what you learn in college is really just to gauge whether you are a hard worker. Otherwise, you learn about 85% of the stuff you need to do your job- ON THE JOB....its slightly disheartening.
yeah, I've been on trips to possible future employers as an engineer and from going to offices and labs, and from talking to seniors, I've pretty much gotten the idea that what you learn in college is really just to gauge whether you are a hard worker. Otherwise, you learn about 85% of the stuff you need to do your job- ON THE JOB....its slightly disheartening.
Well, because it's engineering it's impossible to replicate exactly what a company does while you're in school. What you do learn in school are the basic skills and approaches necessary to doing any job in that engineering field. You may use only a specific subset of what you learned while you're at a company (and you'll certainly learn a lot more on the job) but that other stuff you learned is necessary if you ever want to take a job at a company that doesn't do something similar to your current one.
It's the same thing with science. If you ever do go on in academia or research, or even if you go into an industry job, you'll only be using some of the stuff you learned and you'll never care about the other things. But most of the people that go to school thinking they're going to do "Biology" have no way of knowing if they'll end up researching the structure of DNA, drug-delivery, or working in biomaterials.
DerDrache
2009-01-10, 20:07
I'm of the opinion that you should start your bachelor's right away if you don't want to waste time. For example, if you're going to become a computer scientist, wouldn't it be more beneficial in the long run to use those 2+ years you would've spent learning whatever trade you chose with an actual CS job? If you want to become a scientist, the skills you learn will be in labs, and you'll only get those while at university. If you're an engineer, internships will be your main thing, and it's easier to find those if you're actually working towards an engineering degree. If you want to become a doctor, do you really want to postpone your 12+ years in school by 2 more? The same argument could be made for a lot of careers.
Right now I'm in college working towards my bachelor's, hopefully after that I'll go to med school.
Hurray for being in school forever!
My main point was a practical one. Trade schools are much cheaper than university, and give you skills and qualifications that you can immediately go out and use. You get a trade degree, go to college, and then you can work part-time and actually build some formidable savings (or pay for college, given that it's so expensive in the US). You also don't have to worry about what to do after you get your Bachelor's. While some college degrees open up a lot of immediate job opportunities, many do not. I'd rather graduate knowing that I was at least qualified to do something (beyond just dead-end stuff or grad school-related things).
My main point was a practical one. Trade schools are much cheaper than university, and give you skills and qualifications that you can immediately go out and use. You get a trade degree, go to college, and then you can work part-time and actually build some formidable savings (or pay for college, given that it's so expensive in the US). You also don't have to worry about what to do after you get your Bachelor's. While some college degrees open up a lot of immediate job opportunities, many do not. I'd rather graduate knowing that I was at least qualified to do something (beyond just dead-end stuff or grad school-related things).
While that certainly makes some sense, I would only recommend it to people who have no idea what they're going to do with their life and have one of those seemingly-inapplicable humanities majors -- e.g. english, sociology, music, art, etc.
whocares123
2009-01-11, 03:45
While that certainly makes some sense, I would only recommend it to people who have no idea what they're going to do with their life and have one of those seemingly-inapplicable humanities majors -- e.g. english, sociology, music, art, etc.
i fit into both of those categories. :(
The wacky thing about inapplicable degrees are that they're hugely applicable. People don't necessarily use their degree towards what they study. An inapplicable degree is held as proof that you know how to study and work in a quality manner. Where an engineering degree can be used to work as an engineer, an arts or business degree allows you to work in almost any field.
---
You don't need to take a couple years of school to work in the trades, you only have to apply. You'll work as a labourer, sure, but it provides excellent training. You can work in the trades as a summer job. If you stay in the trades for a decade and aren't making more than a hundred thousand a year, then you aren't interested in building your career. There's a lot of money in the trades and it's not incredibly difficult to get your hands on it.
---
I've known lots of people with engineering degrees that entered the trades because their jobs were so godawful. It's not unusual for well-qualified people to be working within the trades.
---
If you're a person that's focused on doing one thing for the rest of your life and you don't want to deviate or walk any other path, then running directly to university is a good idea. If you're looking to build your experience-base and actually have a resume, then it's a good idea to learn something practical. Is there more to your life than wanting to work in a particular job?
---
What you want to be doing now may not be what you want to be doing in 5, 10, or even 15 years. Practical skills open doors for you; as do soft skills.
---
A degree is only a certification, what you do with that certification and how you back it up is what counts.
lostmyface
2009-01-14, 04:54
i go to university, i study history.
i think what you learn in college is how to think, reason, and express yourself. some might call this knowledge, others might call it skills. either way i think they are useful tools to have in life.
take my history BA for example, completely worthless when you first look at it. i cant fix a car, i cant write code, i cant even swab for finger prints properly. but what i can do is sift through volumes of text, find the important kernels, and then express my views on these kernels in a clear an concise manner.
all a degree is, is a piece of paper that shows your boss that you have what it takes. that you had enough motivation, an passion to sit through four plus years of reading, writing, listening and thinking.
whocares123
2009-01-14, 04:58
i go to university, i study history.
i think what you learn in college is how to think, reason, and express yourself. some might call this knowledge, others might call it skills. either way i think they are useful tools to have in life.
take my history BA for example, completely worthless when you first look at it. i cant fix a car, i cant write code, i cant even swab for finger prints properly. but what i can do is sift through volumes of text, find the important kernels, and then express my views on these kernels in a clear an concise manner.
all a degree is, is a piece of paper that shows your boss that you have what it takes. that you had enough motivation, an passion to sit through four plus years of reading, writing, listening and thinking.
what do you plan on doing with your history degree?
lostmyface
2009-01-14, 14:28
becoming a lawyer is plan A. if that dose not work out then i am going to get my teaching certificate. teach high school history/civics.you know, try an inspire the next generation.
actually i can easily see my plan B turning into my Plan A. i have been working with big brothers an big sister lately and i really enjoy it. much more than my internship at a local law firm this past summer.
becoming a lawyer is plan A. if that dose not work out then i am going to get my teaching certificate. teach high school history/civics.you know, try an inspire the next generation.
actually i can easily see my plan B turning into my Plan A. i have been working with big brothers an big sister lately and i really enjoy it. much more than my internship at a local law firm this past summer.
This is sort of my plan B too. I could definitely see myself teaching at some point, maybe after I'm old and retire I can teach a high school biology or chemistry class.
whocares123
2009-01-14, 18:46
becoming a lawyer is plan A. if that dose not work out then i am going to get my teaching certificate. teach high school history/civics.you know, try an inspire the next generation.
actually i can easily see my plan B turning into my Plan A. i have been working with big brothers an big sister lately and i really enjoy it. much more than my internship at a local law firm this past summer.
wow we're like the same person. i'm hoping to intern at a law firm this coming summer actually. my outside possible profession plan would be to teach high school for a bit, eventually becoming a counselor, working in my hometown where so few kids go to college or even finish high school, and the counselors suck.
Big Steamers
2009-01-15, 00:17
While that certainly makes some sense, I would only recommend it to people who have no idea what they're going to do with their life and have one of those seemingly-inapplicable humanities majors -- e.g. english, sociology, music, art, etc.
Someone has to work at the mall.