How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

Given that the very source material of the religion is "radical" (ie. extremely oppressive of women, treats people of unrecognized religious faiths as non-humans, promotes murder of non-Muslims, etc.), why do people convince themselves that they are following Islam by following their significantly altered version? If Allah said "Woman are sexual temptresses who should be covered at nearly all times. Oh, and if they get raped, they should be beaten for being unfaithful to their husband", how can a woman just ignore those vile things, still convince herself that she's properly worshiping that god, and proudly announce her Muslim faith?

Since I know someone will mention Christianity: Christianity's Old Testament was definitely vile, but (correct me if I'm wrong) the New Testament (which replaced the Old) was filled with messages of peace, love, equality, and acceptance.

But I digress: How can someone discard a huge chunk of their religion and still think they are part of it? I'm GLAD that they've discarded all of that bullshit, but my thinking is: If they are going to disobey, that probably means they don't really believe the Koran, in which case, why not find a religion that truly is peaceful and loving and just be done with it? (I think there is some New Testament stuff in Christianity about homosexuality, but since the religion is all about forgiveness and repentance, I can understand why people "discard" things they don't agree with.)

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

derdrache, i am not sure if you are trolling or what. but i am going to dive into this anyway. i hope a real muslim will find this post an jump in, cause i am no expert on this faith

your premise is wrong. the source material of the religion is not radical in the sense you mean. most of the things you cited ie oppressive to woman, other religions seen as non humans, an murder of non muslims are in fact recent interpretations of the koran and not what is actually written. and your point on murder is in fact dead wrong. murder is prohibited. period. jihad is different. jihad can only be carried out against combatants.

all one has to believe to be a muslim is the "Six Articles of Faith." According to this list, to be a Muslim one must believe in:

1. One God;
2. The angels of God;
3. The books of God, especially the Qur'an;
4. The prophets of God, especially Muhammad;
5. The Day of Judgment (or the afterlife); and
6. The supremacy of God's will (or predestination).

This list is sometimes shortened to Five Articles of Faith, which leaves off belief in the supremacy of God's will.

the whole thing on rape that you brought up is also not part of muslim doctrine. it is a human interpretation only carried out in a few backward muslim countries. not all of em.

the old testament is actually a jewish book, not a christian. but you christians have your own dark past based on interpretations of your religious text. do the crusades or Spanish inquisition ring any bells?

you dont know anything about the religion of islam. all you know is what you hear on Faux news. i hope a practicing muslim finds this thread an drops some much needed knowledge on your ignorant ass.

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

I hate to disagree with you, Derdrache, because you usually make interesting and knowledgeable posts. However, the way you paint Islam is fallacious. I could just as easily open up the Old Testament and call all Christians and Jews sadistic animal abusers, and worse.

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

And it was with this new book in hand, men in red robes burned innocent women alive for having boogey men inside them. It was with this new book that slavery, was accepted. That women were still treated as cum dumpsters and baby factories.

Just as you would not consider the People's Temple of Jim Jones to be a credit to the Christian faith, most muslims do not consider Hamas and Al Quada to be a credit to their faith.

The only difference between the Christianity and Islam, besides the sequel to the Old Testement is one of time. Think of the radical terroristic Muslims today as Christians were 300 years ago.

As soon as they get some Walmarts, McDonald's and good 'ol reality TV, they will be as placated as most of the sedentary Christians are in America.

On the flipside, take away all the creature comforts here in America, and you will see the violence INHERIT in Christianity take root, and you will see the violence that such a loosely interpretated bronze age book of tribal folklore has to offer the world. This time from a Jesus perspective.

You think men throughout the ages have not ran into suicidal combat, screaming praise to Jesus? You think none have been violently executed in his name?

The main difference between these faiths is one of time, so I wouldn't get my Christian noses to high up in the air just yet.

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

People can use anything as an excuse to kill. To my knowledge, nothing in the New Testament promotes violence and hate under any circumstances, in contrast to the Koran, which directly says it's okay to kill apostates and have Holy Wars. Whereas the Bible basically recanted all of its promotions of violence, the Koran did not. Either way, this thread is about Islam. If Christianity promotes the same things, then I'd regard it just as negatively as Islam. (Don't waste your breath quoting stuff from the Old Testament, as the New Testament's teachings replaced the Old Testament.)

Oppression of women and murder of those who commit apostasy (renouncing one's Muslim faith) is not a "recent interpretation". It's the interpretation that follows exactly what the Koran and Hadith say. (The Koran gives support for the the death penalty, which could be open to interpretation, though Muhammed explicitly supported it.)

I'm happy that many people don't follow the Koran or the teachings of Muhammed strictly (mainly because a lot of people would be getting slaughtered), but it's absurd how you like to paint everything as a "difference of interpretation". How, for instance, can you misinterpret the Prophet of Islam directly advising the death penalty for apostasy (and adultery and murder)? Saying you don't believe in that part of the Koran (or the Hadith, the teachings of Allah's prophet) doesn't magically make such aspects of the religion disappear.

Why not just be honest? "Islam is a major part of my history and culture, yet some of it is filled with barbaric bullshit, so I'm going to keep the good parts and discard the bad."

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

How could someone use the new testament for violence....

How about this one, where Jesus pretty much says, "the old laws are still in effect, bitches, until the end of time".

Matthew
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

So till heaven and earth pass, the laws of the OT are good to go?

There exists other passages, I have looked up, and can post if you care to read through them. I will post them tomorrow if you like, and you can interpret them in the most non-violent way you wish.

Doesn't change the fact that they can ALSO be interpreted to do great evil. Interpreted by men, who believe in witches, or think the holy land should be theirs, and theirs by blood.

Again, I wouldn't hold my nose up too high against the muslims, your demi-god cult was once just like theirs.

-----------------

Christians in the western civlized nation of America, are not desperate people. Here in America we really want for nothing as a people. Take that shit away, and you will see the ugly side of this faith rear it's head, AGAIN.

You would see desperate men leading their flock to whatever evil cruel ends they wish. If the shoe were on the other foot, you would see fat ass soccer moms shout "Praise Jesus" before they trigger the homemade dynamite strapped to their chests.

I hope that if this happens, there will be some sedentary lifestlye having muslim posting online how much better his demi-god cult, and imaginary friends are than yours.

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

[quote=BrokeProphet;10888960]
[i]Matthew
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
QUOTE]

Damnit you beat me to it!

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

They need to be more like Christians and Jews who only adhere to the politically correct portions of their faith.

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

Just because I am not afraid to say that Islam is a religion that, from its source material, promotes killing and oppression, that doesn't mean I'm Christian, so stop assuming it.

Your quotation does not mean that the old laws are still in effect; it means the exact opposite, as any minister will tell you. The old laws were originally required in order for sinners to be saved. Jesus took the burden of man's sin on himself and was crucified so that men wouldn't have to do all of the OT things to be saved. He "fulfilled the law" by having the punishment for sin brought down on himself. That's the entire fucking premise of Christianity.

It doesn't matter if people raped babies while setting off explosives and screaming Praise Jesus. It wouldn't have been condoned in the least by the Bible or the teachings of Jesus. Could someone say they are killing and oppressing in the name of Christianity? Of course, but the difference is that there are direct commands in the Koran and from Mohammad that promote such things for Muslims. What's so complicated about this?

And we can get into a long interpretational debate about whether or not Jesus really means that Christians should follow the OT laws (since he does not explicitly say that), but it won't make Islam any less of an explicitly oppressive, belligerent religion.

Re: How can Muslims be non-radical?
 

I read the first sentence then stopped. Get fucked.