Science and it's deniers

[Das Troll]

People often use the term science denier as a pejorative. But those same people will hand wave or outright ignore inconvenient facts like 13% of the population (black people) commit almost half of the violent crime in the USA. They call it race realism. So which is it, follow the facts in which you have to follow them all, or don't follow the facts and be a crazy loon who thinks the Earth is flat?

[AngryIVer]

I don't get people that deny fact. It's like people who deny math.

[Kheron]

People don't deny that fact, they just don't use it to say that all black people are bad lmfao. What ppl fail to understand when they don't have two brain cells to rub together is that poverty breeds crime. Happens in white neighborhoods too, happens in historically poor white countries. It's just a fact.

Now, why are black people stuck in poverty and having to rely on crime?

Because of historical racism in America. Even after slavery & segregation were both ended there was a serious attempt to keep them in their own communities, etc. In fact, the war on drugs was meant to instill hate against hippies and black people so the Gov could fuck with them:

"One of Richard Nixon's top advisers and a key figure in the Watergate scandal said the war on drugs was created as a political tool to fight blacks and hippies, according to a 22-year-old interview recently published in Harper's Magazine.
'The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people,' former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday." (https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics ... index.html)

Very few things are so easily black and white. I mean, back in the day the Irish were called white apes, white niggers, deemed violent and savage, not allowed to work certain jobs. I remember reading once they were even used on a few plantations at one point, but not in mainland US I think? These views ended up leading to the Great Hunger/Potato Blight. The Irish HAD food but the English took it all and refused to provide aid, saying it was God's Wrath. On top of that, the Irish were forced to sustain themselves on potatoes because a series of Landlords leasing, subleasing, subleasing, subleasing, etc., drove rent prices up and made them stick to something that was easy af to grow, grew a lot, and had tons of nutrients. Which is also why the Irish were so big and strong back in the day, because potatoes.

But yea...blacks do commit more crime in America, disproportionately so. But they need to get out of the poverty trap before anyone can make any kind of serious claim that it's because they're black and not because of their environment. Could spend hours breaking down just how poverty does this shit but like...I'm kinda lazy rn.

Here's one of my fave Youtube channels discussing the famine in a series if you're interested btw:

[Das Troll]

That wasn't really what I was aiming at I was just using it as an example. But since you brought it up, the Chinese and Irish faced discrimination much to the same effect and they pulled themselves out of that slump. How come poor Irish and Chinese became unpoor and successful and blacks have not?

[Kheron]

Because the different whites were largely accepted as white rather than some impure nonwhite. The fact they had the same skin color eventually won out over their country origins.

Chinese nowadays are largely rich immigrants, and there's nothing America likes more than money. Or at least that's my best guess. Tho we haven't even really given blacks a real chance, we've stuck them in poor neighborhoods with limited access (northern Minneapolis has the shittiest service from Metro Transit even), deny them aid programs, we call them back less for interviews or apt applications (numerous studies have been done using identical applications except for the name)

It's unfair to say they've really had equal opportunities, despite the accomplishments of the few that have managed to achieve quite a bit - after all, there's been so few success stories, how can we say one success black man means every single one had as easy of a time?

[AngryIVer]

Because it's not the 1700s anymore and WE aren't the ones keeping them down, they're keeping their own ignorant selves down.

Do you realize how many black people I've seen say fuck working because either too much child support was being taken out, or because it wasn't instant gratification? Maybe we wouldn't think they were lazy apes if their only example of working hard wasn't when we had slaves.


The fact of the matter is they actually are given the same base opportunities in life as either of us. It's not fair to use whether or not they could get into an Ivy League college as an arguing point when the fact is you and I would both get denied too, you know?


Like, racism still exists, but it's a very few people who really care about black/white anymore.

[Kheron]

Sure, we "give them the same opportunities" on paper but we try our damndest not to. And besides, getting *out* of poverty is difficult, especially when you're down a father because of gang bs already. Fixing generations of oppression isn't as easy as saying "well just get to work you lazy ape."

Like, all it is is melanin my dude. Are we gonna say eye color also changes who you are? Hair color? Your star sign? Those all make about as much sense as believing in a magic sky daddy that will punish you for being oh so naughty.

[AngryIVer]

You said it in your own post. "Gang BS". They literally do it to themselves.

They are oppressing themselves by selling each other crack and shooting at each other. Even the lowest class of white folk doesn't do that in the record numbers that black people do. NO other race does.

[Kheron]

It's poverty and shit but whatever. I mean, I just think that if you wanna hate blacks/mexicans/asians/whatever then just hate them, no need to buy into stupid bs. The amount of effort that went into stunting the progress of minorites in America is insane.

[AngryIVer]

I never said Mexicans or Asians, I specifically cited blacks.

School is free. Not being in a gang is free. Not shooting at each other is free. Poverty has nothing to do with it.

I just think people should stop looking at anything of the negative things black people do as white people being racist and accept the fact that put in the exact same environment every other race flourishes.

[Kheron]

But they're not in the same environment. Hell, some of the neighborhoods in California will be miles of residential with different gangs on different blocks. When you're trapped between rival gangs that both adopt a "you're with us or you're against us" attitude you have to join one of them just to not die.

This really is more complex than ppl wanna believe.

[AngryIVer]

Okay, so are we forcing the gangs upon them? It still sounds like THEM keeping THEMSELVES down.