Recent Noam Chomsky interview

National, state, regional, and local politics. Who's doing what to whom, and what you can do about it. How-to-get-action messages are encouraged. "How the government fucked up my life" stories are encouraged. Sharing new methods for cheating on taxes is encouraged. Sample "letters to congresscritters" are encouraged. Apathy and "I can't do anything" posts are discouraged. Left, right, centrist, or any other form of political-economic systems are all up for discussion. Be prepared to defend yourself, or at least have a good line of bullshit ready. Extensive quoting of economists and philosophers is frowned upon. We want to hear what YOU have to say, not what some constipated, impotent, dead guy dreamt up while suffering from the DT's over a hundred years ago thought.
Post Reply
Kheron
Registered
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Kheron » Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:33 am

As one of the greatest philosophers of our time, figured it'd be cool to share this interview I saw with Chomsky today.

Wasn't sure where to drop this, but politics seemed the safest forum to drop it in? Philosophy tends to be pretty fucking political even when they aren't talking directly about politics (which they are, anyway)


Das Troll
Registered
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Das Troll » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:55 pm

I love the sheer lack of introspection on both Pakman and Chomskys part. So far all I'm seeing is a bunch of outward finger pointing.

User avatar
Enigma
Site Admin
Posts: 3115
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:35 am
Location: The Interweb
Contact:

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Enigma » Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:05 am

Will def check this out after work
:weed: [IP: logged]

Kheron
Registered
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Kheron » Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:44 am

Das Troll wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:55 pm
I love the sheer lack of introspection on both Pakman and Chomskys part. So far all I'm seeing is a bunch of outward finger pointing.
Uh, huh. So what exactly do you think they need to be more self-reflective about?

Das Troll
Registered
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Das Troll » Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:30 pm

Kheron wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:44 am
Das Troll wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:55 pm
I love the sheer lack of introspection on both Pakman and Chomskys part. So far all I'm seeing is a bunch of outward finger pointing.
Uh, huh. So what exactly do you think they need to be more self-reflective about?
When ever the left tries to find the origins of racism on the right, they always go back to Nixon and his southern strategy. Sure they're not wrong in that respect, but they completely gloss over the fact that the Democrats have been racist far longer, (the creators of the KKK, not to mention that the republicans were the ones who first wanted to abolish slavery) and are now starting to be racist again with things like segregated spaces for people of color ect ect. Hell all you have to do to see modern day racism in places of power is look at Chicago major Lori Lightfoot. She's on video saying she's not going to give interviews to anyone who isn't black or brown. All you have to do to see the racism there is to flip the races. Imagine if some white person got up there and said I'm only giving interviews to white people. Your first gut reaction before trying to justify through some critical race theory lens would be disgust.

Kheron
Registered
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Kheron » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:59 pm

Das Troll wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:30 pm
Kheron wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:44 am
Das Troll wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:55 pm
I love the sheer lack of introspection on both Pakman and Chomskys part. So far all I'm seeing is a bunch of outward finger pointing.
Uh, huh. So what exactly do you think they need to be more self-reflective about?
... (the creators of the KKK, not to mention that the republicans were the ones who first wanted to abolish slavery)
You do know that the parties swapped ideologies/sides of the political spectrum, right? Wanting to abolish slavery in the 1800s is so far back in political history that it isn't even a valid point. It means nothing. The entire party is wildly different. That's an objectively weak talking point used only to deflect from the current racist tones being pushed in political discourse nowadays.
and are now starting to be racist again with things like segregated spaces for people of color ect
I agree, I think any self segregation is pretty stupid. But beyond like, private community "safe spaces" (often just college rooms/community outreach centers) do you have any evidence of this being a widespread thing? Also, I smoked a bit during the interview and it's been a few days now, but I don't recall this being a topic from the interview, so you're kind of just attacking whatever strawman argument you can to discredit Noam Chomksy's interview. Weak.

Hell all you have to do to see modern day racism in places of power is look at Chicago major Lori Lightfoot. She's on video saying she's not going to give interviews to anyone who isn't black or brown
That's pretty funny, I like how modern liberals think excluding people is somehow diverse or progressive. That said, looking it up, it was specifically one-on-one interviews about her 2 year anniversary as mayor. One single topic. And I guess she did it to protest lack of diversity in chicago press, by I guess forcing them to utilize ignored reporters. Clever, I guess, though it sounds like it may have alienated people by your reply, so one could argue it was a miscalculated political stunt/activism. Though, once again, strawman. When did this come up in Noam's interview, here? Is my memory really that bad?

So, all in all, your only relevant point is that they didn't acknowledge that the Republicans, back in the 1800s (so 120+ years ago) held a specific political position. When the parties were fully swapped politically around the 1910s. They haven't even been that party for a century now.

Das Troll
Registered
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Das Troll » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:29 pm

My point is the blind spot that all lefties seem to have now with their own biases. Hell just look at how Trump got a massive amount of black and Hispanic votes with the last election. The left is in such a destructive bubble that it's allowed for new aged racism to take hold and old racisms to regrow. It can't just be tit for tat, or else the same shit will keep happening. That's my problem, Pakman and Chomsky are either willfully ignorant of their own parties mistakes or they just don't care because they want to win.

Kheron
Registered
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Kheron » Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:23 pm

Das Troll wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:29 pm
My point is the blind spot that all lefties seem to have now with their own biases.
Which biases, exactly? It's difficult to discuss something without knowing what's being discussed.
new aged racism to take hold and old racisms to regrow.
I agree, 100%. While I will vehemently fight for better rights of any group in need, there is a small handfull taking it to the extreme. The radical left (like any radical sect) is pretty shortsighted, trying to replace one racist institution with another. The far left & far right are both destructive in this fashion.
That's my problem, Pakman and Chomsky are either willfully ignorant of their own parties mistakes or they just don't care because they want to win.
While the Democrats are no friend of the commonfolk and have definitely contributed to the institutional oppression all lower class individuals face under our system (black and white, left and right, man or woman, we're all fucked) it's disingenuous to shift the blame to them. Institutional Republicans have done a sight more. They supported and enabled Trump. They helped foment the fascist alt-right that ended up staging an insurrection. Then they immediately denied any involvement while still defending Trump.

Democrats tried to impeach him. Then they tried again after the insurrection, which would have kept him from running for office in the future, neutering his fascist political cult that just tried to overthrow democracy. Because of Republican politicians protecting Trump and putting party over country, they're keeping the possibility of this happening again on the table.

One party tried to stop armed thugs storming the capital, chanting to hang not just Democrat politicians but Republicans like Pence. A violent, alt right group, bent on overthrowing democracy and the will of the people. The other party protected the instigator of the insurrection. Despite both being smarmy CorpoRat fucks, one of them is markedly worse.

I may disagree with Republican policies, but I also disagree with the majority of establishment Democrat policies as well - and I certaintly wouldn't stop the democratic process. Any group willing to kill & stage an authoritarian coup like that should be readily shunned. That isn't what you do when you disagree with someone lmao

Das Troll
Registered
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Das Troll » Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:15 pm

Being a tad hyperbolic when calling at in insurrection aren't you? Let's face it, that sort of thing has happened before, most recently the Kavanaugh hearing when people tried to stop him from being made into a justice. Also just take a look at all the crimes that went on during the "insurrection". Destruction of property, trespassing, theft of Pelosi's laptop ect ect. All of these things are lacking one key fact, none of them are insurrection. Hell none of them are even being tried for insurrection.

Only one person died that day, and that was Ashley Babbit. Officer Swetnick died days later from a stroke and I heard one guy died from tasering his balls on accident (hilarious). If it was an insurrection, it was the most tame one in history as only a few people even got hurt and congress came back just a bit later and voted.

Idiots, yes. Insurrectionists? Naaa.

Kheron
Registered
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Kheron » Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:45 pm

Lmao, what aassive downplayal of armed assholes attempting to kill elected officials.

Them failing doesn't mean they didn't try.

Let's talk facts, here, not the reality-ignoring delusions & propaganda of the very people that fomented the insurrection.

Das Troll
Registered
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Das Troll » Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:30 am

Kheron wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:45 pm
Lmao, what aassive downplayal of armed assholes attempting to kill elected officials.
Who did they try to kill? The only person that got killed was Ashley Babbit. In fact the person they were threatening was Pence. Think about it, the entire place is filled with cameras, why haven't we seen footage of all the crazy insurrection stuff that went on, if it went on? Even threatening an elected official with violence is enough to get you in trouble and we haven't seen anyone get convicted of that yet either. All we saw is property damage and a bunch of idiots doing idiot things. The BEST they can get is charges on riots. Meanwhile people like AOC are lying and making up shit about how she was afraid for her life in the adjacent building where no one was at.

This is all just political theater with nearly nothing to show for it.

User avatar
Enigma
Site Admin
Posts: 3115
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:35 am
Location: The Interweb
Contact:

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Enigma » Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:38 am

Aaaand just like that the thread got way too crazy for me to follow.

Good job keeping the place active, guys. Just remember this is the politics section, and butts will get hurt. Try not to take anything personal.
:weed: [IP: logged]

Kheron
Registered
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Kheron » Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:11 am

So, a lack of charging people when Republicans are actively quashing investigations, etc., is proof nothing happened?

What supreme logic. I can see how you've come to your position through hard thinking and a clear grasp on facts and reality. It's almost impressive, the amount of thought put into this. Such wow.

Das Troll
Registered
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Das Troll » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:31 am

Kheron wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:11 am
So, a lack of charging people when Republicans are actively quashing investigations, etc., is proof nothing happened?
That is a facet of it yes, but lets not get confused here and think the dems are doing it for any other reason besides to keep their boogie man front and center. They need to carry Trump at least half way into Bidens presidency so they can gloss over the fact that he is falling apart. No doubt one of the main reasons why the reps aren't calling for the investigation is because they don't want to give the dems political hay. I'm not going to put the republicans on a pedestal saying their motives are pure, because neither side is pure.

Just look at the evidence on hand. If the dems even had anything but smoke and mirrors it would be all over left stream media since the 6ths. Every time they come up with something it falls apart and ends up a nothingburger. So they're creating a narrative where they can CRAFT perception of crimes that either A, didn't happen or B, are played up beyond reason. All this is done to keep their cash cow, both political and money wise, in the lime light and out of office for 2024.
Kheron wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:11 am
What supreme logic. I can see how you've come to your position through hard thinking and a clear grasp on facts and reality. It's almost impressive, the amount of thought put into this. Such wow.
aww come on, no need to get heated.

Kheron
Registered
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:38 pm

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Kheron » Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:02 pm

Das Troll wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:31 am
Kheron wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:11 am
So, a lack of charging people when Republicans are actively quashing investigations, etc., is proof nothing happened?
That is a facet of it yes,

So, you admit that by obstructing justice you change the narrative enough that... you just don't care? Yes, the Republicans can start an insurrection, but as long as they cover their tracks well enough (I mean, they didn't, they just aren't being held accountable) it's fine?
So, you admit that by obstructing justice you change the narrative enough that... you just don't care? Yes, the Republicans can start an insurrection, but as long as they cover their tracks well enough (I mean, they didn't, they just aren't being held accountable) it's fine?

Nice.
aww come on, no need to get heated.
Not heated, just amused. I can tell you've really attached your worldview to what an admitted propaganda outlet pushes as its narrative.

'In 1970, political consultant Roger Ailes and other Nixon aides came up with a plan to create a new TV network that would circumvent existing media and provide "pro-administration" coverage to millions.'

The key being "pro administration." That's called "propaganda."
https://theweek.com/articles/880107/why ... ws-created

A memo entitled “A Plan for Putting the GOP on TV News,” buried in the the Nixon library details a plan between Ailes and the White House to bring pro-administration stories to television networks around the country. It reads: “Today television news is watched more often than people read newspapers, than people listen to the radio, than people read or gather any other form of communication. The reason: People are lazy. With television you just sit—watch—listen. The thinking is done for you.”



Hmm, sure sounds a lot like it was explicitly created to push party narrative.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/bl ... _blog.html

As former Bush speechwriter David Frum tells Dickinson, “Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us. Now we’re discovering that we work for Fox.”

From the piece:

[Fox News] plays a leading role in defining Republican talking points and advancing the agenda of the far right. Fox News tilted the electoral balance to George W. Bush in 2000, prematurely declaring him president in a move that prompted every other network to follow suit. It helped create the Tea Party, transforming it from the butt of late-night jokes into a nationwide insurgency capable of electing U.S. senators.


Fox isn't even truly loyal to the GOP. It's just using the GOP & the GOP's voter base. Because, again, explicitly created to control people.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ne-244825/


So, a gameplan of "Lie, subvert democracy, use political powers to cover tracks & obstruct opponents to cripple them."

Let's not forget the time McConnell filibustered his own bill
https://theweek.com/articles/469675/mit ... uster-bill

Then there's craven sycophants like Ted Cruz who insulted Trump during his primary then began sucking his dick because it was politically relevant.

You have to seriously reach to try and paint the Democrats as anything more than mildly incompetent corporate whores. The Republicans are just full blown, in your face, mustache twirling villains that the Democrats tolerate more than the dirty dirty progressives that want to gasp give people healthcare!


Funny.

Das Troll
Registered
Posts: 1691
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 am

Re: Recent Noam Chomsky interview

Post by Das Troll » Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:08 pm

Kheron wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:02 pm
Das Troll wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:31 am
Kheron wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:11 am
So, a lack of charging people when Republicans are actively quashing investigations, etc., is proof nothing happened?
That is a facet of it yes,

So, you admit that by obstructing justice you change the narrative enough that... you just don't care? Yes, the Republicans can start an insurrection, but as long as they cover their tracks well enough (I mean, they didn't, they just aren't being held accountable) it's fine?
So, you admit that by obstructing justice you change the narrative enough that... you just don't care? Yes, the Republicans can start an insurrection, but as long as they cover their tracks well enough (I mean, they didn't, they just aren't being held accountable) it's fine?

Nice.
aww come on, no need to get heated.
Not heated, just amused. I can tell you've really attached your worldview to what an admitted propaganda outlet pushes as its narrative.

'In 1970, political consultant Roger Ailes and other Nixon aides came up with a plan to create a new TV network that would circumvent existing media and provide "pro-administration" coverage to millions.'

The key being "pro administration." That's called "propaganda."
https://theweek.com/articles/880107/why ... ws-created

A memo entitled “A Plan for Putting the GOP on TV News,” buried in the the Nixon library details a plan between Ailes and the White House to bring pro-administration stories to television networks around the country. It reads: “Today television news is watched more often than people read newspapers, than people listen to the radio, than people read or gather any other form of communication. The reason: People are lazy. With television you just sit—watch—listen. The thinking is done for you.”



Hmm, sure sounds a lot like it was explicitly created to push party narrative.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/bl ... _blog.html

As former Bush speechwriter David Frum tells Dickinson, “Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us. Now we’re discovering that we work for Fox.”

From the piece:

[Fox News] plays a leading role in defining Republican talking points and advancing the agenda of the far right. Fox News tilted the electoral balance to George W. Bush in 2000, prematurely declaring him president in a move that prompted every other network to follow suit. It helped create the Tea Party, transforming it from the butt of late-night jokes into a nationwide insurgency capable of electing U.S. senators.


Fox isn't even truly loyal to the GOP. It's just using the GOP & the GOP's voter base. Because, again, explicitly created to control people.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... ne-244825/


So, a gameplan of "Lie, subvert democracy, use political powers to cover tracks & obstruct opponents to cripple them."

Let's not forget the time McConnell filibustered his own bill
https://theweek.com/articles/469675/mit ... uster-bill

Then there's craven sycophants like Ted Cruz who insulted Trump during his primary then began sucking his dick because it was politically relevant.

You have to seriously reach to try and paint the Democrats as anything more than mildly incompetent corporate whores. The Republicans are just full blown, in your face, mustache twirling villains that the Democrats tolerate more than the dirty dirty progressives that want to gasp give people healthcare!


Funny.

I never said I didn't care, I just said it was a facet of it. Taking emotions out of the equation I can spot a political move when it comes up.

Post Reply