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Abrahim
2006-05-14, 03:55
The following are a series of posts in a forum, these posts are by Abrahim Esker

Well before you kill this beast, let me tell you one thing: There is no being in the image of man nor any being that created every thing. There is no Diety or God save one, One so obvious that it remains a mystery to most.

People look for a God in the sky, in the Earth, some kind of Image to place faith in, an idea. Yet every single day they meet the only True God, and they deem themselves self sufficient of it, yet they are completely dependant on it.

They want some God that is within the universe that floats around on a magical cloud and controls the universe with a chessboard. They can find that in their minds. Yet that is not The True God I speak of. Any of you can guess what this True God is, the Only God, one that completely has you under its controls through its limitations on you. You can not even think a single thought unless that thought is an available option to you, or do anything without it. You live with it, sleep with it, and interact with it in waking and in sleep. What is it?

God is not some man in the sky, nor will ever be, nor will any thing you can see that you do not already see be your God.

Your God is one God, what we are all made of, exist within, and are completely dependant on.

God is Reality. The Ultimate Reality. The Reality we exist within, interact with, are made of, where all possible perceptions of all possible things can occur, if the option for the thought is not available, you can't think it. The System is smooth, flawless, perfect, without Glitches.

People question the "control" of God without seeing how in fact they are completely limited and dependant on Reality. They look for something within Reality, when Reality itself is The Only God.

I don't only mean objective physical reality, I mean the subjective reality too, what we can think, a superimposed hallucinatory image, what matter is it made of? The actual image is not made of any matter, yet it is still an option within this Reality, or else you wouldn't be able to think it.

God is The Reality, there is no God but this. People say they will believe when they see some large being come down from the sky? Yet any large being that may come down from the sky is within reality, made of reality, limited by reality, thus Reality remains the True and Ultimate God.

The Ultimate Reality is where we exist, where this universe is, essentially it is the only thing, that ever was or will be.

Nothing does not exist, what I mean to say as, True, Absolute Nothing, does not exist, as something (this) can not come from Nothing. Nothing always remains as Nothing, it has no capability to manifest.

On the other hand, Ultimate Reality has always existed, there is nothing beyond it, it is all there is and ever was, it is the manifestor of all possibilities, all realities, including this one.

It is "alive" if it were dead, inactive, then so too would we be non active, incapable, non existant, All things are in motion constantly.

God is The Reality, all things are part of the Reality, made up of the Reality, dependant on the Reality. You can call it anything, from God, Allah, The Tao, The Force, The Brahman, its one thing, all of the above were words to describe it but some ended up humanizing it. It is not a human, it has no form, it is infinite, it has no limits, it is the only power, the ultimate power.

Why would one deny evolution and the processes of this universe? They are made manifest and clear. But to deny Reality would be the mistake, and Reality is the only God, the Ultimate God. The sustainer of Worlds, the Supreme "King", The Provider of all things.

Prove to me Reality does not exist? You can't without blatant denial of yourself and all that is within and without you. Reality is God, the Only God. We are all within it, and Nothing is without it.

Originally posted by truckfixr:

I can agree with you up to a point. Reality exists. Beyond that, you are stretching things a bit.

Reality is not a sentient being, thus it honestly cannot qualify as being a God. You're calling it so is based on your opinion/belief. Not on emperical evidence.

I'm not saying it is sentient in the way we are sentient:

Here is the definition from www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com)

sen·tient ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snshnt, -sh-nt)

adj.

Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).

Experiencing sensation or feeling.

____________________________________________

Everything is made of Reality, including our feelings, and our ability to be sentient. Everything is within Reality, everything is in constant motion. Reality is not "dead" or else that would mean it would be nothing and not exist at all, nor would any thing manifest, exist, or manipulate, or even have a plain on which to exist, nor would or could anything manifest, appear or even move.

Reality is "Alive"

a·live ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-lv)

adj.

Having life; living. See Synonyms at living.

In existence or operation; active: keep your hopes alive.

Full of living or moving things; abounding: a pool alive with trout.

Full of activity or animation; lively: a face alive with mischief.

Main Entry: alive

Pronunciation: &-'lIv

Function: adjective

: having life : not dead or inanimate

Clearly Reality is Animate, we and everything is proof of this.

Ultimate Reality is "Aware" of all things existing within it, the proof of this is in the manifestation of all the available possibilities for us and our ability to execute them, furthermore our personal Awareness being proof of "Reality posessing Awareness". Besides all that, if Reality were not "Aware" those things it is "Unaware" of would not exist.

Aware

adj 1: (sometimes followed by `of') having or showing realization

We and everything around us are the Realization of Reality.

re·al·i·za·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-l-zshn)

n.

The act of realizing or the condition of being realized.

The result of realizing.

Manifestation:

man·i·fes·ta·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-f-stshn)

n.

The act of manifesting.

The state of being manifested.

An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something: A high fever is an early manifestation of the disease.

man·i·fes·ta·tion (mn-f-stshn)

n.

An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something...

Main Entry: man·i·fes·ta·tion

Pronunciation: "man-&-f&-'stA-sh&n, -"fes-

Function: noun

: a perceptible, outward, or visible expression

There is your "Creation" The Manifestation of this Reality which is within Ultimate Reality, which is the Manifestor. To call it the "Manifestor" is not innacurate as clearly, we are manifest and here to prove it.

The funny thing is "We are witnesses unto ourselves" what I mean to say is "we are the proof against ourselves" So is everything else!

So to Recap, We and All that is, ever will be, ever was, ever can or will be, in this or any other reality, belongs within Ultimate Reality. Ultimate Reality is what we are "Manifest" within. There is no Diety or God greater or mightier than this, and it is not a humanoid or anything of the sort, nor does it operate or think like us, it is infinite, the proof of its life is in the movement of all things, the proof of its awareness is in our being manifest. If it did not "know" we would be "dead" or inactive in it. know ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n)

v. knew, (n, ny) known, (nn) know·ing, knows

v. tr.

To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.

To regard as true beyond doubt: I know she won't fail.

To have a practical understanding of, as through experience; be skilled in: knows how to cook.

dead ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dd)

adj. dead·er, dead·est

No longer in existence, use, or operation.

We are the proof amazingly, yet we look everywhere for something that doesn't exist, when "God" is right infront of us, we are operating through it. We are sufficient proof of it. The Ultimate Reality, we are within it, it is without us, self sufficient, be it that we exist or not, it is ever living, before and after. Call it what satisfies you, it is one undeniable thing, to deny it is to Deny the Truth, Yourselves, The Reality which you exist within.

ex·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zst)

intr.v. ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists

To have actual being; be real.

It is one God that has appeared throughout history, constantly mutated by the minds of men which belong to it completely, for their form to the possible thoughts they can possibly think. Even the most ancient hunter gatherer societies have this most ancient concept ingrained into their personal religions, even so, athiests deny it due to their definitions of God which they base of the corruptions of humans. God is and has always been "The Ultimate Reality" Never has "God" been a man in the sky, some being with a form, or anything possible within Ultimate Reality because it, itself is Ultimate Reality and all things are within it, not without it.

Its been called many things, though it is one thing, and so too are we, who all belong in it and exist only within it and because of it, are one with it, yet we deem ourselves self sufficient, we are completely dependant. We are under its controls by its limitations. It is beneficent in its gamut of options which it has bestowed us, to do what we wish, and all things having their cause and effect.

People claim that this world is IMPERFECT, do they see glitches? Does your computer screen suddenly dissapear forever with no explanation right before your eyes? The System is Perfect, This Reality is Perfect, Ultimate Reality is Perfect, if it is incapable of one thing it is Imperfection, as Imperfection is Nothing, it can not manifest.

All Religions are an attempt to explain this truth in a way people can understand. Many get close. Christianity tries in its own way but its humanizations mislead.

The first beliefs understood this, it was understood all was a part of Reality, then each part, to explain the phenomena was accounted a spirit of action, originally accepted as part of the One, but later misrepresented through alagory and explanation as its own part, and all beliefs have this core, as does human existence, since it is undeniable.

Each Religion from the most ancient to the new says it in their own Way and tries to make the message clear. It is one Message. There is only One Religion.

The only dispute and matter of "Faith" should be in an afterlife or ressurection.

But even so, that concept is there, once again reflecting ultimate Truth, that to everything there is a Cycle, even so to this universe, it expands and will collapse and restart. The Night and the Day and the Night and the Day. The land grows dry and dead and then rains bring out the life again. A million metaphors to represent the ultimate cycles within Reality.

Please read the above post if you havent!

Reality is obviously not aware in the way we are but Reality is aware, the fact that we exist being that awareness manifest. If not we would not exist, but true that to us sounds humanization, but I don't mean it that way AT ALL.

en·ti·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-t)

n. pl. en·ti·ties

Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit: Persons and corporations are equivalent entities under the law.

The fact of existence; being.

The existence of something considered apart from its properties.

If anything, in that case, Reality would be the only Entity, what we all exist within, what only exists, what we are all made of. That would only be according to definition 2 of the word. In any case, everything is within and part of one thing, and that is Reality, it is infinite, essentially it is all there is.

in·fi·nite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nf-nt)

adj.

Having no boundaries or limits.

Immeasurably great or large; boundless: infinite patience; a discovery of infinite importance.

Mathematics.

Existing beyond or being greater than any arbitrarily large value.

Unlimited in spatial extent: a line of infinite length.

Of or relating to a set capable of being put into one-to-one correspondence with a proper subset of itself.

I thought it was relevant since the word Manifestation was used, Creationists can simply say that the Bible uses metaphor to teach in the case of the story of our creation. Then they can take science as the fact, the story as the metaphor representing the science. I don't know why they would defend something untrue when they can just as easy take it as metaphor.

I'd LOVE to talk to you on an IM program! Which one do you use? I am MSN, AIM, and Yahoo. Which do you use? How can I add you?

Yeah I didn't understand what the phycedelics was reffering to:

did you mean:

psy·che·del·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sk-dlk)

adj.

Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis.

Hope to see you soon on one of the IM's I'll add you, or you could add me at [email protected] , abrahimesker , or [email protected]

Originally posted by truckfixr:

We are aware. Reality is not.

Consider this. If all life in the universe were to cease to exist, any and all awareness would also cease to exist. Reality would remain. There would simply be no one to observe.

If we are Aware, Reality "posesses" Awareness. If it did not, we would not be Aware. Its language trickery maybe, but its literal too.

You are right about the second part, Reality would remain.

Most of what happened yesterday is unknown and unremembered, unverifiable, unproveable.

Were we created?

Were we manifested?

Were we molded by evolution?

Why can't people understand whatever the case, they are all the same, and the proof is that we are here.

We are manifestations, manifested within Reality and this Universe, and molded/created by evolution, a process which was originally manifested as a possibility within Reality and this Universe. The argument goes into semantics, language, and philosophy. There is only One God worthy of Worship, Understanding, Submission. There is no Being within this Universe or outside it worthy of worship save the one thing.

The one thing has been described in a billion ways over history by different people, and it is always an attempt to explain the one thing which EVERYONE knows willingly or unwillingly. There is no Elephant, Bearded man, Spirit Being, or any other explanation of the One thing.

The One Thing is not seperate from anything, or any of us, we are within it, a part of it, manifested by it, within it, and are completely dependant on it.

Some call it "What is Real" some give it other images and forms, thus limiting it in peoples minds and ruining the original concept.

Hinduism, Taoism, Islam, they all talk about the one thing and describe it in various fashions. Even Zoroastrianism, even Athiests can't deny the One Thing, they all call it by different names, it has no name save a name we give it.

Even the oldest religions, the most ancient hunter gatherer beliefs try to describe this one thing and mention it in their various fashions.

I call it "Reality" what encompasses all of us, objective, subjective.

Hindu's call it brahma (nominative singular), brahman (stem) (neuter[1] gender) means the concept of the Supreme transcendent and immanent Reality or the One Godhead or Cosmic Spirit in Hinduism; this is discussed below.

The Vedas depict Brahman as the Ultimate Reality, the Absolute or Universal Soul (Paramātman) [6]. It is the ultimate principle who is without a beginning, without an end, who is hidden in all and who is the cause, source, material and effect of all creation known, unknown and yet to happen in the entire universe.

Bhuddists include this belief as well as other religions that have sprung from Hinduism.

"Ishvara (ईश्वर in devanagari script, pronunciation /ī:sh vərə/), also variously transliterated (romanized) as Īshvara, Īshwara, Īshwar, Īśvara, etc. (Sanskrit: "the Supreme Lord, and hence the Cosmic Controller") is a Hindu philosophical concept of God meaning that entity or the Supreme Being which is the lord and the ruler of everything. It is also used in Buddhism to mean 'lord' or 'master', eg, Avalokiteshvara."

The same goes for "The Tao" in Taoism.

The same with "Allah" in Islam, it is a description of Ultimate Reality.

Everyone from the beginning of our attempts to explain things, have been attempting to explain one thing, which we exist within, interact with, are controlled by, has an infinite potential of aspects (manifestations) but is One, call it what you want, Reality, Tao, The Brahman, Allah, God. It is one thing, and it is One. Nothing is outside of Reality, it is infinite and all encompassing, the most powerful thing. No big man in the sky, beast, or alien creature is worthy of Worship, the most powerful thing is this Reality. It is one Religion, it has always been one Religion, people have tried to describe one thing over and over and people tend to misunderstand it over and over again: They seek what can only exist within their minds, and EVEN THAT is within the bounds of the One Reality, The Ultimate Reality.

"Pantheism (Greek: pan = all and Theos = God) literally means "God is All" and "All is God". It is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent God

Debate

Some critics argue that pantheism is little more than a redefinition of the word "God" to mean "existence", "life" or "reality". Many pantheists reply that even if this is so, such a shift in the way we think about these ideas can serve to create both a new and a potentially far more insightful conception of both existence and God."

This forum is for religious debate, it has a name that is very cute: My God can beat the Shit out of Your God, while both are attempts to describe one singular thing.

The other point people can debate on is the afterlife, something which no one has proof or knowledge about or for, what we know is now, and we should use it to the best of our advantage.

Understand: New and Old, attempts have been repeatedly made to describe one thing, there is nothing else we know but Reality, it was what we live in and are made of and are completely dependant on.

The Qur'an says it, Hinduism says it at its core, and Taoism said it too.

It has no name so call it what you want, it is one thing and it is undeniable.

There is no Diety or God but the Reality we exist within. There is no man sitting in the sky waiting for you, there is no man who is God, there is One Ultimate Reality, all that is within it is a part of it equally.

You are all manifestations within Ultimate Reality, this is obvious because here we are, debating what is obvious.

Nothing can threaten the True Religion, and it is one, and nothing can destroy it either because it is True. You can attempt to deny the undeniable, but it is futile because even to deny it you utilize it to do so and are completely dependant. The best you can do for yourself is to humble yourself to it, submit to it, attempt to become one with it, at peace with it, do right: Islam, Taoism, Hinduism, Bhuddism all suggest the same thing. Judaism and Christianity also attempt to describe the path of becoming at peace with Reality.

Do what you know is right, and good for you, good for others, you know it, I know it, we may do it differently. What is wrong is bad for us and others, what is right is good for us, and good for others. Use common sense.

Being human and living in Reality is an automatic religion, you breath, you walk, you talk, you fight, you write, you laugh you cry, you argue about one thing with different names.

All Polytheistic Religions from the past were originally an attempt to describe what is known, and what is unknown. To describe Reality which is one, they gave it aspects, which became known as spirits or Gods, which controlled each aspect, but are all part of the "Creator" or "King" or the "Master" God which is Reality, and all were manifestations of it.

The One Truth, Reality exists, internal or external, we are all here and manifested by it, dependant on it completely.

Originally posted by Beta69:

Sure thing.

Creationist side: Evolution is false science because we have deemed it so based on how we read a couple chapters in an old religious text.

Evolutionist side: Evolution is most likely correct because mountains of tested and retested evidence based on tried and true methods says so.

QED

K thanks. I really appreciate it.

What would happen if Creationists say Evolution was Created?



I believe many people including athiests have an incorrect humanized idea of God, which makes it easy to simply discard because of its obvious absurdity. I do not believe God is some man or woman in the sky holding lightning bolts or controlling things somewhere in space with a chess board. I believe God is "Reality", everything is made of it, nothing exists without it, it is surrounding us, within us, everywhere. We are made of complex knowledge and mathematics that allow us to exist but essentially we are all parts of reality, you and I no better than a tree or a molecule of air, all part of the same thing! The way in which God controls everyone is just that! A leaf falling, nothing can happen without the possibility for it to happen to exist. We cant even think if the possibility of the thought didnt exist. To put it simply, everything is available to us, what isn't, we can't concieve of, what we can concieve of is already available as something we can possible concieve of. God, Reality, is what has always been there, not this planet or universe, but if there was ever a time of pure nothing, no possibilities, no numbers, no black, no white, no nothing, absolutely nothing would still be there, as nothing can produce only nothing. Something cant come from nothing. The source of all possibilities and realities, innumerable is The Ultimate Reality, God. God being in the image of nothing, but with the function of manifesting absolutely all possibilities and realities. We are the proof that there is no such thing as nothing, if there were nothing there would STILL be nothing. To say something came from nothing is as illogical as to say God is a man in the sky who has a kid who is him who was born a baby who shat and bled and died.

This is from my myspace.com profile at www.myspace.com/abrahimesker (http://www.myspace.com/abrahimesker)

Enjoy my profile! It's mostly about my philosophy!

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

1.NEW PROFILE: THE INFECTION: APPRECIATE EVERYTHING

2.MY PHILOSOPHY!: WHAT IS GOD?

3.THE DEBIL PRIDE: A HUMAN'S WORST ENEMY!

4.EVERYTHING HAS A FUNCTION!

5.WHAT IS WORSHIP?

6. MORALS REVIEW!

7. OLD PROFILE: CONTACT INFORMATION!

and so...it begins...!

1.NEW PROFILE:

OK CHILDRENZ *comma* Here's some sweet wisdomishness coming your way! You don't know how good you've got it until you feel the pain of an internal infection of the "tubes" the testacles, and everywhere else...hahah it rocks my socks!

How I got it, is a mystery, but I'm happy I did get it. Why? Who could be happy about not being able to sit, stand, walk, sleep, move, sleep...WELL ME OF COURSE! Why? Because it tells me how good I've got it, and how good you've all got it too...

Don't cry and mope and diddle daddle, paddy waddle about silly things "Oh my boyfriend said I was fat" CELEBRATE, you can hear! You can walk, you can speak, you have everything in sickness and in health...haha its a beautiful thing.

Love life with everything it sends you, this pain is a multiplication of the pain caused by childbirth and I embrace it, because it tells me and whispers, and screams of the beauty and perfection in all things...

I laugh when I'm crawling on the floor to get to my bed, or when I urinate fire onto my enlarged flaming testicle, or when I stand and knives stab me through the belly like wonderful reminders of all the good things in this universe...pain is a wonderful teacher, if you haven't met it, then meet this lesson, and embrace everything, complain about nothing, everything is as it should be. Amen! hahahaha man it kicks ass!

2.MY PHILOSOPHY!

Ok next...Whats my philosophy? Ok I'll tell you... What is God?: God is not a man or a woman or a thing created, God is infinite, we are all within it, nothing is without it, it encompases all realities, everything. What is God if its not some old dude sitting in the sky? God is "The" Reality! Everything is part of it, within it, and nothing is seperate from it. We see God all the time, feel God, Experience God...How? We are living God, In God, Part of God, Surrounding us! Ain't that shnazzy? BOOM!

3.THE DEBIL PRIDE!

What is Hu-Man's worst Enemy?!: Well, The Debil!? Well some people call it that, but its not really some dude with horns...its "Pride". I mean Pride in a bad way, not self respect, self respect is a good thing, but Pride, Pride is the "I am" That seperates a person from Everything Else "From Reality". Its the "Why did this have to happen to ME!" or the "They made ME feel pain, now I'll make them feel pain worse!" or the "How could they say that to me!" or "I'm better than them!" (How can you be better than anything we are all part of the same thing, with our individual functions!) "I know more than him" (He knows what he knows, you know what you know, share baby!)

So how do we defeat this son of a bitch that causes all anger, regret, sadness, arrogance, evile!, revenge, negative feelings?! Well easy! Humility, Humbleness...What is that? A humble person never even says "I am Humble" or "I am not proud" It's a person who is forever learning the lesson of acceptance, openess, peace, they are one with Reality...One with everything, they realise they have a function just like everything else, good and bad, and they are part of the puzzle, just a piece, like the flowas and the trees, and the birds and the bees! hahahaha, Pride is sneaky, makes many appearances, comes from all angles, has many disguises, such as self righteousness, Know it all ism, EVEN LOVE?!

Love? Yeah love, because people invest "pride" into people and things they love, so when those things are hurt or destroyed or insulted, those people go berserk like wild ninjas on cocain! Yep...it's a naughty little thing...but a humble person has time to be reasonable, hear all sides of all stories, they listen without cutting people short just because they think they are better, in fact they dont think they are better, they know they have a function just like the other person. They are cool people...Humbleness rocks! Pain tries to teach humility sometimes too!

4.EVERYTHING HAS A FUNCTION!

Alrighty, next on the list...We make choices, but everything that happens has a function that leads to results and more functions, a never ending chain reaction, and its only pride that makes us regret and not see the good things in the chain or the blocks, how they wouldnt pile up the same or at all if one block in the past is removed. FROM EVERYTHING COMES GOOD EVENTUALLY...

Even a murder, though its initially bad, bad for the person who does it (he probably did it out of pride) woah I farted just now, that rocked...Yeah but it still leads to good, those little decomposer dudes got food, it must have led to a million lessons, a million different good events, people changing their ways, noticing something, reading about it, blah blah blah, anyway, nothing goes to waste, good or bad...so be easy kids! and be Good, because in the first place its Good to be Good, Bad to Be Bad, for the bad person, but thats about it! Everything can be shown in a positive light...

5.WHAT IS WORSHIP!?

Worship is submission, submission to THE REALITY, Bowing down, literally, sometimes metaphorically, to The Reality (God) We exist within it, part of it, all that jazz! WE fall down prostrate ourselves to the ultimateness of the powerfulness and the coolness that is God/Reality hahah it kicks ass!

This is Abrahim Esker, Signing out, Typing to you on my knees, literally ,sweating, coughing, in wonderful amounts of pain worse than delivery of a demon baby named "Toradask'd"! AND HAVING A BALL OF A TIME! Because its fun, APPRECIATE AND BE THANKFUL FOR EVERYTHING YOU HAVE, EVERYTHING IS AS IT SHOULD BE IN THE TIME IT IS! BE HUMBLE! BE COOL! Thanks! Check out my old profile if you wanna contact me. Peace!



6.MORALS REVIEW! :

Alright so we learnt about celebrating everything we get in life, the good and the ouch.

We learnt about appreciating everything we have the material, the physical, the non physical and all that stuff!

We learnded bout' God, not being some old dude, but being Reality, Life, and Everything in it including us, We are inside Reality, part of it all, Experiencing it, Experiencing GOD! Woohoo!

We learnt about that naughty debil named "Pride" aka "The I Am That seperates people from everything else" he's also a whiney jack ass "Oh Why'd this happen to me! waaah waaah waaah" Boohoo jack ass! celebrate!

We learnt about Pride's disguises like self righteousness, know it all ism, arrogance, investing pride in creations like art or someone we love, and all those things. Pride sometimes even disguises itself as a "I am humble" or "I am not proud" kind of statement.

We learnt that even though bad things happen it all has it's function, just like us and everything else has it's function. Nothing is wasted. But that doesn't mean to go out and be a jack ass because I'm sure that's bad for the individual.

I think we should appreciate everything we have, and in addition take care of ourselves and our surroundings by staying healthy and cool!

Finally we learnt about how to worship this "mysterious" God that we wake up to, sleep in, and look at every day without even knowing it. Submitting oneself to Reality (God). Realizing we are just another piece of the puzzle and bowing down.

I hope these lessons help you out in life, and feel free to add me to any chat thing, or to ask me questions, I'd love to answer!



7.OLD PROFILE:

I like nice people. I am on MSN Messenger.

[email protected] is my email, friends we be? Contact me, feel free. I know english!

www.geocities.com/humoraobscura (http://www.geocities.com/humoraobscura) is a website I direct some people to! I like making art. I am studying psychology. I am planning to make movies.

Feel free to leave any comments here in the profile. Thanks again! If you don't have MSN Messenger and need to download it, you can at http://messenger.msn.com.

AIM at www.aim.com (http://www.aim.com)

and ICQ at www.icq.com. (http://www.icq.com.)

MSN Messenger at [email protected]

Yahoo Messenger at abrahim_esker

My ICQ Number is 304 430 410

My AIM Name is AbrahimEsker

Feel free to send me messages on my space!

Feel free to leave any comments in my profile!

Feel free to add me to your friends list or to any of the programs mentioned above any time! Thanks!

TALK TO ME ABOUT GOD! WHAT DO YOU THINK? WHAT DO YOU AGREE AND DISAGREE WITH IN THIS ARTICLE?

[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 06-10-2006).]

Abrahim
2006-05-14, 04:17
My personal thanks if you manage to read all that!

Adrenochrome
2006-05-14, 08:20
A figment of the imagination.

EvilMeowMeow
2006-05-14, 08:22
All Shall Join My Religion. its simple i travelled back in time and busted a nut in the primordial ooze, simple, right? so all that u see before you was originally in my sack of sticky and thick and gets chicks preggers in one shot man-juice.

Evil Meow Meow-ism. oh yes i went there

Abrahim
2006-05-14, 09:58
lol Ctrl+C = New Religion Propaganda!

Abrahim
2006-05-14, 13:29
http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif) Sad to see this post bomb in the religion section lol. What is your opinion on what God is? Anyone?

Abrahim
2006-05-14, 14:08
http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif) dang

Totyai
2006-05-14, 14:22
I'm getting pretty sick of pseudo-spiritual internet dipshits who want to be big philosiphers by posting their beliefs on myspace.

Abrahim
2006-05-14, 14:59
quote:Originally posted by Totyai:

I'm getting pretty sick of pseudo-spiritual internet dipshits who want to be big philosiphers by posting their beliefs on myspace.

lol how is someone who posts on myspace a big philosopher? Wrote dat when my ball was on fire cause I realized some things and mainly wanted to type it out so I put it in a myspace profile where people would see it. I wanted to see how people reacted to the idea and have it in a place I could refer people to when they asked about my belief (Cause this big philosopher doesn't always feel like typing it always).

jsaxton14
2006-05-14, 17:31
It seems to me that your definition of God is a misuse of the word "God." I have always held that "God" refers to a supernatural entity with various attributes (omniscience, omnipotence, etc.) It seems to be that you're talking about the natural realm, not a supernatural entity.

Would you consider yourself a pantheist or a humanist?

scorpion
2006-05-15, 02:21
i think god is a beaver

Abrahim
2006-05-15, 11:32
quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

It seems to me that your definition of God is a misuse of the word "God." I have always held that "God" refers to a supernatural entity with various attributes (omniscience, omnipotence, etc.) It seems to be that you're talking about the natural realm, not a supernatural entity.

Would you consider yourself a pantheist or a humanist?



I'm just saying that in my opinion people have misunderstood what God really is, and that God is fully real, Reality, what all things are composed of existing within and by. Any other form of God, such as a being or entity within the Universe would be incorrect and not worthy of Worship. My God is what all universes exist within. It is the base of all things, there is nothing but It.

And He is a Beaver...lol just kidding! Thanks to both of you for your comments!

Abrahim
2006-05-15, 11:57
Any other comments or questions?

Adrenochrome
2006-05-15, 12:20
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I'm just saying that in my opinion people have misunderstood what God really is, and that God is fully real, Reality, what all things are composed of existing within and by. Any other form of God, such as a being or entity within the Universe would be incorrect and not worthy of Worship. My God is what all universes exist within. It is the base of all things, there is nothing but It.

And He is a Beaver...lol just kidding! Thanks to both of you for your comments!



Yeah . . . . And everyone else will disagree with your idea of what god is. Everyone has a different image of god in their head, and they’re all wrong because they’re all the figment of the imaginer’s imagination.

Abrahim
2006-05-15, 12:31
quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Yeah . . . . And everyone else will disagree with your idea of what god is. Everyone has a different image of god in their head, and they’re all wrong because they’re all the figment of the imaginer’s imagination.

I like when people agree with me! Everyone has their own ideas, true! Are all figments of the imagination wrong? Maybe! Why don't you believe in God? What's your back story? Did you ever believe? How were you raised? etc etc. I'd love to know!

Adrenochrome
2006-05-15, 12:37
Wrong, huh? Cause you just happen to be so lucky that you were picked by god out of millions of people to be the one person he reveals his true self to? Psh.

I’ve never really been a believer. My mum was a Christian, so I just called myself Christian because it was easier than thinking for myself. Then I started actually looking into religion and saw it to be a sack of lying, incoherent, controlling, oppressing shit.



[This message has been edited by Adrenochrome (edited 05-15-2006).]

Abrahim
2006-05-15, 12:43
quote:Originally posted by Adrenochrome:

Wrong, huh? Cause you just happen to be so lucky that you were picked by god out of millions of people to be the one person he reveals his true self to? Psh.

I’ve never really been a believer. My mum was a Christian, so I just called myself Christian because it was easier than thinking for myself. Then I started actually looking into religion and saw it to be a sack of lying, incoherent, controlling, oppressing shit.





So what do you believe right now? Other than their being no God, what's life all about? How do we exist, where did all this complex stuff we're made of, and the systems we live in, how do they exist? Where did they come from?

Adrenochrome
2006-05-15, 12:53
I don’t act like I’ve got all the answers, because I don’t, unlike religious people. Saying God created everything doesn’t answer anything, because than you have to ask where god came from.

I don’t believe there’s an afterlife, but I’m not 100% sure; I don’t believe there is a god; I believe existence precedes essence, so we invent our own meanings; I believe all morals and ethics are manmade, and that the argument that without religion we would be immoral is bullshit, because if there is no god than it would have been men who wrote the ten commandments; I believe evolution to be correct; and I believe in noble ethics.

Adrenochrome
2006-05-15, 12:56
I think the best way to describe me would be to say I’m a “card carrying existentialist.”

Abrahim
2006-05-15, 13:07
I like that! That's excellent! It's fantastic to have noble ethics! What made you decide to be ethical?

crazed_hamster
2006-05-15, 13:40
So, you came to the conclusion that God is everything, bla bla bla (we both read your post, I'm cutting it short here). Now, why worship your God? What will worshipping your God do for me? For the worshipper? As far as I can see, nothing. Oh well, it's a waste of time to honor our God. If there's no God to honor or worship, the more time I have to live.

Abrahim
2006-05-15, 14:08
quote:Originally posted by crazed_hamster:

So, you came to the conclusion that God is everything, bla bla bla (we both read your post, I'm cutting it short here). Now, why worship your God? What will worshipping your God do for me? For the worshipper? As far as I can see, nothing. Oh well, it's a waste of time to honor our God. If there's no God to honor or worship, the more time I have to live.

Ok lets say God doesn't exist. You worship God, you live too, you die. Nothing happens, fine.

Ok, God Exists, you worship God, you get rewarded.

If you didn't worship God, and God exists, big trouble, if you did worship God and God didn't exist, no harm or loss, end up how you would've anyway.

Thats one reason one might like to worship God or submit. Fear and avoidance of potential punishment. Not the best reason ever though but one that is pretty clearly related to worshipping God. Other reasons could be humility and stuff but people can be humble and kind without worshipping God.

Adrenochrome
2006-05-15, 16:22
That's rubbish. Not worshipping god puts you in the same position as worshipping a god. You don't know which god is the correct god until you die, man. Not worshipping the correct god can also = big trouble.

crazed_hamster
2006-05-15, 17:22
Worshipping a God usually entails living with a certain set of requirements and limitations. You must pray. You must love your fellowman. Thou shalt not steal. Meditate for hours every day. Don't eat this. Don't drink that, etc.

My options are to either find one of the many Gods to worship and obey, or give all Gods a good kick in the ass, tell them to kindly fuck themselves, and live my life as I choose. I chose, and live the latter.

HellzShellz
2006-05-15, 20:56
God is Love.

1 John 4:8

He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

jsaxton14
2006-05-15, 21:06
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I'm just saying that in my opinion people have misunderstood what God really is, and that God is fully real, Reality, what all things are composed of existing within and by. Any other form of God, such as a being or entity within the Universe would be incorrect and not worthy of Worship. My God is what all universes exist within. It is the base of all things, there is nothing but It.

I still feel you are using the wrong word. This is simply because we already have a word for your definition of "God": reality. Regardless of whether or not you choose to worship your perception of reality, it is still reality.

If I were you, personally, I'd claim "I worship reality" or something similar, rather than claim "reality is God," simply because I see no need to redefine our terms.

I just wanted to clear that up. Arguing semantics in this case is silly.

jsaxton14
2006-05-15, 21:13
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Ok lets say God doesn't exist. You worship God, you live too, you die. Nothing happens, fine.

Ok, God Exists, you worship God, you get rewarded.

If you didn't worship God, and God exists, big trouble, if you did worship God and God didn't exist, no harm or loss, end up how you would've anyway.

Thats one reason one might like to worship God or submit. Fear and avoidance of potential punishment. Not the best reason ever though but one that is pretty clearly related to worshipping God. Other reasons could be humility and stuff but people can be humble and kind without worshipping God.



Pascal's Wager simply doesn't work. Let's say some dude tells me I need to worship a giant invisible 37-dimensional toaster, or I will roast in the toaster for eternity alongside the Toast of Torment. Logically, it is in my best interest to believe in the toaster. I'll grant you that. HOWEVER, I can't simply "choose" to believe in the giant invisible 37-dimensional toaster. I can say I believe in it, I can act like I believe in it, but as a rational adult, there is no way I can truly believe in it without some sort of justification/evidence. Belief in God is no different.

crazed_hamster
2006-05-15, 21:50
quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

God is Love.

1 John 4:8

He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

In which case, I don't want to know, nor need to know God, who really isn't a very loving guy. Unless he's into some hardcore S&M as his expression of love.

Rust
2006-05-15, 22:57
quote:Originally posted by jsaxton14:

Pascal's Wager simply doesn't work. Let's say some dude tells me I need to worship a giant invisible 37-dimensional toaster, or I will roast in the toaster for eternity alongside the Toast of Torment. Logically, it is in my best interest to believe in the toaster. I'll grant you that. HOWEVER, I can't simply "choose" to believe in the giant invisible 37-dimensional toaster. I can say I believe in it, I can act like I believe in it, but as a rational adult, there is no way I can truly believe in it without some sort of justification/evidence. Belief in God is no different.

Pascal dealt with that problem when he proposed the wager. He argued that after one believed in a certain deity because (according to him) it was a good bet, that one should immerse oneself in the beliefs of that religion so that faith would then in turn follow. That is, that the bet was a way of becoming a theist, but the faith itself came from studying and learning a particular religion. That is a workable solution, at least for some.

The problem with the wager is that it assumes that a higher chance of suffering in the afterlife doesn't await you for ultimately believing in a deity. It could very well be that if a deity exists, he would prefer one not have a belief in any deities, than a belief in false ones. Hence, if one ultimately believes in deity 'X', it could very well be that in doing so, you are worse off than the atheist.



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 05-15-2006).]

Real.PUA
2006-05-16, 01:47
Good point Rust. One more thing to add, by worshipping a diety you are basically giving your life to it. Thus are betting your one certain life on the infinitesimal chance that you will gain a good afterlife vs the atheist that chooses to use his certain life for his own purpose.

Real.PUA
2006-05-16, 01:50
quote:Originally posted by HellzShellz:

God is Love.



God is a set of fairly well characterized chemicals interacting with neurons then.

Original_Pranksta89
2006-05-16, 02:18
quote:Originally posted by scorpion:

i think god is a beaver

You may be on to something

Abrahim
2006-05-16, 10:31
Thank you so much for the posts, all of you! I greatly appreciate them and enjoyed reading them all!

It is excellent if a person lives life the best they can, is at peace with their surroundings and environment, brings goodness where they go, benefits themselves and others and performs ethical and proper actions which do not harm themselves or others.

I don't know if God IS Love, but that God is the thing that manifested the possibility for such a concept as Love, is the plain in which all concepts we know and can comprehend and conceive of can exist and are already available.

Though I believe God is Reality, the place in which all things can exist, I do believe it is "living" in a sense that if it were not "living" nothing would be able to happen or exist, I also believe that this thing that we all exist in and that everything in the universe is made of and exists by does make communication and that original concepts that appeared for humans that have since not left human conciousness and thought from the earliest times are from this source. I believe that God's control is ultimate but subtle in the sense that it is not God as some being playing with a chessboard rather than "absolutely nothing can happen without the possibility for it to happen being available" God being the manifestor and executor of all action as every single molecule in existance is part of God and existing by God only. A Leaf falling, the ultimate credit would go to God, the general credit would go to environmental effects which are all only existing because of God, within God, and nothing could happen if God didn't exist, there would be no possibility for a Universe as a Universe can not exist without a base for the possibility of a universe to exist. One thing had to always be there, infinite, in order to hold all this and for all this to be able to manifest.

Abrahim
2006-05-16, 16:09
Any other comments? I've enjoyed them all so far!

Beelzebub
2006-05-16, 22:03
I like your idea that God is reality. I disagree of course, but its deep so i like it.

In my opinion, God, Jesus, Allah, Satan and all the rest are simply personnifications of what the average man should strive to be like, or not to be like. The problem is that modern man has taken this too far so that people are dying for their belief in what is little more than made up people.

Heaven and Hell are also simply IDEAS of where we go after we die.

So all in all, in my opinion God is simply, an idea.

bazthefish
2006-05-16, 22:10
if atheisms right then god is whatever u want it to be as it is just an ideas and can then be modified like any other ideas

Abrahim
2006-05-17, 02:23
quote:Originally posted by Beelzebub:

I like your idea that God is reality. I disagree of course, but its deep so i like it.

In my opinion, God, Jesus, Allah, Satan and all the rest are simply personnifications of what the average man should strive to be like, or not to be like. The problem is that modern man has taken this too far so that people are dying for their belief in what is little more than made up people.

Heaven and Hell are also simply IDEAS of where we go after we die.

So all in all, in my opinion God is simply, an idea.

I don't think that one can really blame religion for the actions of people. For Example I've never heard of a Bible getting up and shooting people in a gay club. If all religions were stripped from the world, people would still find things to fight and kill about, differences, likenesses, anything. If we were all given equal power and land in the world and no religion we would still disagree about things since we still have opinion available, people witnessing things differently and more. If all differences in how we look were taken away, our power and land was equal, all religion was taken away, then we would fight on our individual actions that one might do and another might witness and disagree with or may get directly injured by. If all religions, all differences in rank and power in image, and differences in individual action was taken away we would no longer be humans.

Basically, as long as we are human, some of us will always fight. Religion or no religion, it is not responsible for people dying or killing. Those who die and kill for their ideas are often not following the religion they claim to be following, if they were, they would not kill or die for the ideas in the religion as often the religion says not to. Religion itself can do nothing, nor can differences in color, power, size, rank. All those things by themselves are non factors until used as an excuse by us, the humans, to fight with another.

Abrahim
2006-05-17, 10:56
Any other comments?

sh0x0rz3r
2006-05-17, 17:25
Too long/didn't read.

I think "God" is a huge energy field like the Force (star wars) which sustains all matter and life all over the universe. It is the essence of matter itself.

Aseren
2006-05-17, 19:00
quote:Originally posted by sh0x0rz3r:

I think "God" is a huge energy field like the Force (star wars) which sustains all matter and life all over the universe. It is the essence of matter itself.

That's not God, that's a huge energy field like the Force (star wars) which sustains all matter and life all over the universe. It is the essence of matter itself. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Abrahim
2006-05-18, 05:26
quote:Originally posted by Aseren:

That's not God, that's a huge energy field like the Force (star wars) which sustains all matter and life all over the universe. It is the essence of matter itself. http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

What is with people and their pre conception of God? Like only one certain kind of thing can be God.

The Star Wars guy isn't completely wrong in his concept in my opinion. Furthermore one might claim that my ideas have no religious source or completely alien to most, but they come from a religious text!

022.006

This is so, because Allah is the Reality: it is He Who gives life to the dead, and it is He Who has power over all things.

There are more quotes of Reality which I will post in "Interested in Islam? Ask Questions here!"

crazed_hamster
2006-05-18, 05:36
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I don't think that one can really blame religion for the actions of people. For Example I've never heard of a Bible getting up and shooting people in a gay club. If all religions were stripped from the world, people would still find things to fight and kill about, differences, likenesses, anything. If we were all given equal power and land in the world and no religion we would still disagree about things since we still have opinion available, people witnessing things differently and more. If all differences in how we look were taken away, our power and land was equal, all religion was taken away, then we would fight on our individual actions that one might do and another might witness and disagree with or may get directly injured by. If all religions, all differences in rank and power in image, and differences in individual action was taken away we would no longer be humans.

Basically, as long as we are human, some of us will always fight. Religion or no religion, it is not responsible for people dying or killing. Those who die and kill for their ideas are often not following the religion they claim to be following, if they were, they would not kill or die for the ideas in the religion as often the religion says not to. Religion itself can do nothing, nor can differences in color, power, size, rank. All those things by themselves are non factors until used as an excuse by us, the humans, to fight with another.

I agree with this. I think its stupid when people blame fighting on religion. Obviously, there HAVE been many wars, battles, sufferings, etc. due to religion. But if not religion, there would have been another motivation. We're given to conflict. That people want to stop fighting, wars, suffering, is idealistic, but thoroughly futile. What's more intelligent would be to profit off of it.

Abrahim
2006-05-18, 06:39
Yep! Some of the richest people in the world do that as an occupation!

Abrahim
2006-05-18, 06:54
Any other questions or comments?

Inti
2006-05-18, 11:26
There is no god.

Now bawl your eyes out and start cutting yourself in the corner of your room.

Abrahim
2006-05-18, 11:38
What's your idea of God, or what is your idea of the God that doesn't exist?

Inti
2006-05-18, 11:43
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

What's your idea of God, or what is your idea of the God that doesn't exist?

My idea of God is any of the numerous theories stating that there is some sort of being/entity/yada that unifies the universe.

Which I don't see any proof for, so I don't believe it.

Abrahim
2006-05-18, 13:37
So you don't believe the universe and everything in it is unified?

merkury4
2006-05-18, 14:38
I think god is just a platform to greater and better things, something like a starting point, where, where all given a certain power to develop.

Abrahim
2006-05-18, 15:00
quote:Originally posted by merkury4:

I think god is just a platform to greater and better things, something like a starting point, where, where all given a certain power to develop.

Could you elaborate please? It's interested what you said but what do you mean? Could you explain more?

Abrahim
2006-05-18, 16:06
This post is called "WHAT IS GOD?". It is primarilly designed for people's opinions on what God is. For those who believe in God, they can mention what God they specifically believe in and what are its qualities and aspects. For those who do not believe,they can attempt to describe their concept of God, what God would be if God existed, or what the "real" God of things is, such as money etc etc. This can also be used as a forum to ask questions as to the nature of God, if God exists, and more.

In my belief, God is the Reality in which we all exist within, what everything is made of and sustained by.

Any Other Questions or Comments?

[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 05-18-2006).]

merkury4
2006-05-18, 18:29
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Could you elaborate please? It's interested what you said but what do you mean? Could you explain more?

What i mean is god is like technology, its starts at one point but fineshes at another, but it never stops growing, for example, god is the circle, and where inside that circle, but our power to develop is restricted.But the more we have the will to create,that allows the circle (god) to exspand, allowing us to gain more power and advance to a more greater level...example (2)..The workshop is god, and we are the worker, we cannot work without the workshop.

zebra head
2006-05-19, 06:46
Well, I told you I'd post here.. and it turns out- yes, I like.

Abrahim
2006-05-19, 12:10
quote:Originally posted by merkury4:

What i mean is god is like technology, its starts at one point but fineshes at another, but it never stops growing, for example, god is the circle, and where inside that circle, but our power to develop is restricted.But the more we have the will to create,that allows the circle (god) to exspand, allowing us to gain more power and advance to a more greater level...example (2)..The workshop is god, and we are the worker, we cannot work without the workshop.

I like your idea of God and it is very similar to mine it seems.

Thank you so much for posting!

To Zebra Head: Thank you for checking it out! I'm glad you agree! Also thanks for asking the question in the Islam section, I really appreciate it!

Abrahim
2006-05-19, 14:51
Any other comments or questions?

Abrahim
2006-05-20, 03:10
If anyone believes in a God, what is your God, what is your God like?

What if anything should be considered God? People who don't believe in any kind of "God" by the traditional sense of the word can answer this too. What do you consider "God" the highest power in our world or in the universe?

I say Reality, what we exist within and are made of and everything is connected to is the ultimate and highest power, in control of every aspect of everything. This is also discussed in a post on the second page of "The TRUE Religion!" My other topic.

Abrahim
2006-05-20, 12:41
Any other comments or questions?

Abrahim
2006-05-20, 15:12
Does anyone else agree with my idea of God, other than those who have already mentioned agreeing? Does anyone have different concepts of God they believe in that they would like to mention?

Abrahim
2006-05-21, 02:04
yes? no? maybe? why?

Abrahim
2006-05-21, 16:30
This was posted in another topic but is relevant here:

I will never believe in a God that is limited to a form or visible. Why? That would mean God is encompassed by Reality, that the possibilities of Reality allow the possibility of God to be visible and would be limited to a visual form. My God is Reality, what encompasses everything, what you and I are within, made of, interacting with. We "See" God and experience God every moment of our lives without realizing it. You are as much a part of God as Me, or the Air, the the tree, or a little grain of dust, or the universe. God is One, essentially God is All there is and Ever was. God is Reality, the Ultimate Reality. It is alive, conscious. How do we know it is alive, conscious? If it were "dead", or unconscious, not a single thing would happen, not a possibility could exist. We are active, alive, moving within Reality, utilizing Reality, everything is in constant motion, proof of its "life". It is surrounding us, encompassing us, the ultimate control, unescapable authority, yet we call other things, things within its realm "God" when it, and only it is The True God.

It is what makes all possibilities available to us, all the things we can possibly do or possibly think, all the things that can possibly exist within this reality are existant only because it has allowed it to exist and manifested those options. If the option didn't exist, we wouldnt be able to do it, or think it.

Reality is something often taken for granted, people look for Gods when God is always right infront of them, behind them, everywhere, but some don't comprehend.

Who knows how many possible realities, alternatives, different systems and physics may exist within Ultimate Reality, which encompasses all, we will never know other than our own Reality and its options. This is because our Reality can not process or acess any other Reality or system that does not posess the options that our reality has.

What I believe with certainty is there is No God other than Ultimate Reality, that everything we know, and what we don't know, all the possibilities performed and unperformed, that are available to us to do or think, were manifested by it. Reality is what has always existed, all things are in motion, it is "alive" in that sense. Not a single thing can come from absolute nothing, absolute nothing does not exist, nor has it ever existed, if it ever existed it would still exist and something can not come from absolute nothing, absolute nothing always remains absolute nothing. Ultimate Reality, the plain in which all things can exist, has always existed. All things exist within Ultimate Reality, including our Reality, our Universe, and all that is within it.

Submitting to Reality, attempting to at least grasp a little understanding of it, humbling oneself to the ultimate power, and living a life in congruency with what is best for you can be goals to attempt to achieve.

Can God communicate to mankind? How?

We do the thinking, the processing of information, the possibilities are all available provided by Reality. "Inspiration" is the form in which true prophets are said to recieve their information, this is that their conciousness becomes clear and understanding is granted.

I do not believe any true prophet sat there and thought out what they were going to say and then claim it was from God, but rather that their "Inspiration" was like an enlightenment of mind in which they recieved tremendous amounts of information and understood to some degree. The possibility for that to happen existed, their minds did the work and the processing, they spoke the words "God Inspired". A State of clear conciousness, to them it didn't feel like they were doing it or thinking those things, accessing knowledge which they did not posess, but the knowledge was there, their awareness was raised to a point of inspiration from "Reality" and that is the fashion in which God can communicate to people. It is still within the bounds of our understanding, inspiration never took the form of a series of numbers or digits which not even the Prophets could comprehend or see the relevance of.

There are no glitches in the system that we are aware of, no point in which suddenly this screen dissapears randomly, everything is smooth.

A short Recap of the Above Concepts:

God is not a form within Reality, but rather God is The Ultimate and Essential Reality, what everything exists within and is made of. I would resist anything within Reality, within the possibility of existing in Reality as God, knowing the Most Superior is what provides all the options, what everything exists within. Essentially, God is One, everything is a part of it, it is infinite, formless, beyond our Universe and Reality, it is the Ultimate Reality which only exists and encompasses all, all are made of it, existing because of it.

No matter what one might think, nothing is self sufficient, all things are completely dependant on reality, completely restrained by the gamut of options available to us.

Ultimate Reality is "Alive" its nature as living can be seen in our life, in the movement of all things, if it were dead, it would not exist, nor would anything, nothing would move, there would be no options, nothing would have ever been manifested in the first place and there would be no options to hold any possibilities.

God communicates to the prophets through "inspiration". I do not believe the Prophets were aware of their own minds activity in the process, but genuinely felt the clear consciosness and understanding of being "inspired". I do not believe they deliberately chose or carefully devised what they said, but were in a state of clearity, almost trance, when being inspired.

I agree with what agrees with me. I believe the prophets came to similar conclusions through inspiration, my conclusions are based on the revelations in the Qur'an. (This is discussed in my Islam Topic, you can read about it on the second to last post on the first page.)

Does Reality want us to be a certain way? Some things are clearly indicated and developed through natural processes provided by Reality. I do believe concepts of right action, being a "good human" came originally from these inspired states as they are part of being congruent with reality, doing what is intended, submitting ones will to Reality.

Is there judgement? I won't risk it as I have no knowledge of the future. I will do what is outlined in the revelation that was "inspired" and will hope to be rewarded, if there is absolutely nothing, then I will simply remain dead. I will not risk ultimate failure and loss on conjecture or belief in a future that I can not be certain of, I can not be certain that there is no Judgement no matter what anyone claims to its absurdity, and I will not gamble with such a risk, especially when the warning comes from a Book which has provided me my main concept, that God is Reality. I believe the message is true.

Feel free to ask questions in any of my three topics, "The True Religion", "What is God?", and "Interested in Islam?".

I apologize for the length of this post, I thank any of those who managed to read it, I am glad if anyone enjoyed it or gained insight from it.

The True God will never be limited to a form within Reality. Reality, what everything exists within including us is the only True God, provider, "controller", the Control and Provision is in the options it has provided which each play out every moment.

Abrahim
2006-05-23, 02:54
Any comments? What is your "God" God being defined as One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: "Money was their god. "

prozak_jack
2006-05-23, 02:56
So God's like... The Matrix?

Abrahim
2006-05-23, 04:31
quote:Originally posted by prozak_jack:

So God's like... The Matrix?

lol ya pretty much.

Jack, I wanna add you to MSN, YAHOO, AIM, do you have any of those?

sp0rkius
2006-05-23, 05:32
Haven't read all this 'cause I'm way too tired, but I just want to say that I can't concieve of this metaphysical 'substance' with all these entities of omnipotence, absolute Good (whatever that means), etc, and then believe that it's spoken to people, that there are such things as angels, that the afterlife can be in any way sensory if God apparently isn't, etc. It just seems too implausible to me, I think if I were to make some sort of inductive judgement on God, I'd be forced to say that He didn't exist because we have no proper evidence for His nature.

That said, I also think belief in God isn't ABOUT knowing what He looks like or what shape He is or whatever, it's all about the individual believer wanting to believe that this thing, whatever it is, is there, and that's fine by me. Just don't try and pretend you've got some logical rationale for it, inductive OR deductive.

I think God exists most really as an idea in people's heads, and that His effects can be seen in the real world even though He may or may not exist - it doesn't matter if God is there. If we are to claim that any God exists, we do so based on things we see in the world around us, on holy writings of all kinds, on the lives of holy figures, on the beauty of the world around us or our own emotional predisposition to want to believe - what I'm saying is, we theorise the God to suit the effects it has and not the other way around, so the most sensible defintion of God is that it's the thing that causes these effects, if you see what I mean - whether that's something substantial as most religions teach or just a collective term for all the people who write holy scriptures, devote their lives to the holy life, all the 'awe of god'-type emotions people feel, etc.

All this kind of 'god is a Substance' thing is all very Greek, they were generally wrong about most things, and the few who were ever right were usually shunned and forgotten.

[This message has been edited by sp0rkius (edited 05-23-2006).]

Abrahim
2006-05-23, 05:40
quote:Originally posted by sp0rkius:

Haven't read all this 'cause I'm way too tired, but I just want to say that I can't concieve of this metaphysical 'substance' with all these entities of omnipotence, absolute Good (whatever that means), etc etc, and then believe that it's spoken to people, that there are such things as angels, that the afterlife can be in any way sensory if God apparently isn't, etc etc. It just seems too implasible to me, I think if I were to make some sort of inductive judgement on God, I'd be forced to say that He didn't exist because we have no proper evidence for His nature.

That said, I also think belief in God isn't ABOUT knowing what He looks like or what shape He is or whatever, it's all about the individual believer wanting to believe that this thing, whatever it is, is there, and that's fine by me. Just don't try and pretend you've got some logical rationale for it, inductive OR deductive.

All this kind of 'god is a Substance' thing is all very Greek.

Yep, I think you should read some of my posts in here when you get the chance, I believe in Reality.

sp0rkius
2006-05-23, 05:47
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Yep, I think you should read some of my posts in here when you get the chance, I believe in Reality.

Heh, didn't expect you to reply so quickly, went for a bit of an edit.

Is this Reality as in, something objective outside of our own senses? Because, I used to think there must be an objective reality because otherwise how do we have physics, but the more I've studied it (I'm a physics student), the more I've thought, hang on, this is all just a big analogy to explain our shared sensory perceptions - sure, other people certainly exist and the world is certainly approximately the same for more or less everyone, but that doesn't mean there is such a thing as a stricly-defined physical reality, and if there is it's meaningless to talk like there is because we can literally never find out what that is.

Abrahim
2006-05-23, 06:30
quote:Originally posted by sp0rkius:

Heh, didn't expect you to reply so quickly, went for a bit of an edit.

Is this Reality as in, something objective outside of our own senses? Because, I used to think there must be an objective reality because otherwise how do we have physics, but the more I've studied it (I'm a physics student), the more I've thought, hang on, this is all just a big analogy to explain our shared sensory perceptions - sure, other people certainly exist and the world is certainly approximately the same for more or less everyone, but that doesn't mean there is such a thing as a stricly-defined physical reality, and if there is it's meaningless to talk like there is because we can literally never find out what that is.

When I say Reality, I mean Reality as in everything that exists, our reality, included is what we can possibly do, all our options, and what we can possibly think or imagine too. If the possibility for us to think something didn't exist, we could never concieve the thought. Reality is what all the options we know, and those we do not yet know, all the possibilities exist within. It is Physical, and it is Non Physical, it is what was before, what is now, what is to possibly come after. It is the perfect system in which we exist, completely smooth in its movement and motion. It was what our Reality, Universe exists within, it is the Ultimate Reality, that is God. In that sense it is in control of absolutely everything since it is what manifested all the possibilities we have, it is the plain in which the universe can exist, and nothing can exist without reality. Reality is the base, self sufficient, without it, nothing would have ever happened or be available to happen. If it were "dead" or non existant, so too would we be non existant, nothing can only provide nothing, only nothing can exist within nothing, something can not come from nothing. Reality is the base, it has always existed, and will always exist, it is infinite, all encompassing, everything is made of it and within it, completely dependant on it, any other "God" is a false God, it is the ONE, the True.

I want to talk to you on MSN Messenger, AIM, or YAHOO. What's your addy, I'd love to add you to one of those?

I think this long convo I had with someone is relevant:

Abrahim says:

So what did you expect to talk to me about when you originally messaged me?

.com.au says:

I dunno, metaphysics

Abrahim says:

what are you beliefs? what about metaphysics?

.com.au says:

well I'm an atheist

Abrahim says:

but you believe in Reality right? You arent one of those guys who say they "might not exist" right?

.com.au says:

well define reality

Abrahim says:

like this...you me, screen, hand

.com.au says:

of course I believe in an external reality

Abrahim says:

yeah

.com.au says:

I just don't subscribe to that reality such anthropomorphic qualities as sapience

Abrahim says:

what is sapience?

.com.au says:

the abillity to think often confused with sentience which is the abillity to feel pain

Abrahim says:

sa·pi·ent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sp-nt)

adj.

Having great wisdom and discernment.

sapience

n : ability to apply knowledge or experience or understanding or common sense and insight

well we have sapience

some of us lol

sen·tience ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snshns, -sh-ns)

n.

The quality or state of being sentient; consciousness.

Feeling as distinguished from perception or thought.

So you don't believe in the consciousness of Reality?

.com.au says:

no anymore than I believe in the conciousness of a canvas or text editor

Abrahim says:

what paints the canvas and edits the text? I believe the "consciousness" if any, in Reality can be seen in everything, that fact that we are alive and able to function and move and everything is moving, that if Reality or what we Exist within was dead, or unscious, nothing would exist, or move, or happen

.com.au says:

but it's a backdrop

Abrahim says:

yeah its the background I mean its what everything exists withing within

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

what everything is made of what everything is connected to what allows the rain to fall, the planets to orbit (yes there are there foremost reasons such as gravity and all that but I mean as a Backdrop it is what provides all possibilities available for us to think or do, if the possibility is unavailable we cant do it or think it even) That Reality is the most powerful thing, what has everything within it, within its "control" in a sense. That there is No God or Controller within it, it is self sufficient the most massive and infinite, the only thing worthy to submit to

.com.au says:

I dunno about that to submit to it it must have sapience or a will

Abrahim says:

why? Submit to Reality. whats the big deal about that?

.com.au says:

if it has no desires, they cannot be fufilled

Abrahim says:

im talking about us

.com.au says:

well what do you mean

Abrahim says:

you and me, Reality the backdrop to all things. Submitting to it is becoming one with it, one with oneself, being humble. not thinking you are beyond what is real, living truth

.com.au says:

well I don't that's why I'm a materialist as in the mind thing take that descartes

Abrahim says:

I think therefor I am?

.com.au says:

naw ghost in the machine

Abrahim says:

which one is that? I just know about the Anime lol

.com.au says: htt p://en.wik ipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29 (http: //en.wikip edia.org/w iki/Dualis m_%28philo sophy_of_m ind%29)

Abrahim says:

what is it in summary?

.com.au says:

In the philosophy of mind, dualism is a set of views about the relationship between mind and matter, which begins with the claim that mental phenomena are, in some respects, non-physical. [1]

Abrahim says:

hehe yes

Abrahim says:

In philosophy, materialism is that form of physicalism which holds that the only thing that can truly be said to exist is matter; that fundamentally, all things are composed of material. ok BUT what is a thought composed of? like the thoughts going through your head now

its not made of matter, nor is it made of matter, if you superimpose, with your mind and imagination, an image onto the wall, say a dragon, I dont think its made of matter, but its there, that imagination, that imaginary image

.com.au says:

electrical pulses neurons and all that

Abrahim says:

those are the pulses, yeah but those are its own things, electrical pulses are electrical pulses

.com.au says:

I suppose it's rather reductionist

Abrahim says:

from what matter is that imagination made of? what you see in your imagination?

.com.au says:

but you asked me what it's made out of not what it is there is a substantial difference

Abrahim says:

I asked what a thought is composed of, you answered electrical impulses and neurons and all that, but I meant what is that super imposed image on the wall of the dragon in your imagination, and I mean the actual image there, what it is composed of, that the electrical impulses and neurons ALLOW you to think it, and see it, and experience it, but the electrical impulses are only electrical impulses, from what MATTER is that imaginary image composed, and I mean the actual image, not its root cause

.com.au says:

what do you mean your asking me to apply reductionist thinking to a holistic concept

Abrahim says:

im just asking a question lol whats your thought on that?

.com.au says:

well quite simply I ask you what the book '1984' is made out of you reply paper and ink I say that that is unacceptable because I'm asking what the characters and story of 1984 is made of and it's not made up of anything because it's a holistic concept but if we want to break it down we'll find that what gives it form is paper and ink and without it manifesting in paper and ink the characters, the story, would not exist

Abrahim says:

Matter is commonly defined as the substance of which physical objects are composed. It constitutes the observable Universe. I do not believe it is what "Only" exists rather that, There is the Observable, and the Unobservable.

.com.au says:

matter's the only thing that exists in external reality or the physical world

Abrahim says:

Some things Unobservable can be manifested through the manipulation of materials. In my Definition of Reality, as a Whole, are included The Physical and the Non Physical. Everything you can possibly DO, or THINK.

.com.au says:

define un observable

Abrahim says:

being an available option or else it wouldnt be able to happen unobservable are your thoughts, I mean your actual thoughts, like the dragon on the wall

.com.au says:

those are observable

Abrahim says:

no not the content they arent

.com.au says:

the processes are observable, the compositions is observable and the images are observable as well as what causes them

Abrahim says:

what? how are? if you superimpose in your imagination a dragon on the wall who else can see that?

.com.au says:

nobody but I can still observe it and wonder why I'm thinking about it

Abrahim says:

that dragon is not matter the dragon itself

.com.au says:

I never said it was

Abrahim says:

but it exists

.com.au says:

not really

Abrahim says:

yes really it exists within reality

.com.au says:

it doesn't exist in objective reality and it won't until I draw it and make it manifest using physical tools

Abrahim says:

but in Reality as a whole, which you and the dragon and the possibility for you to think and see the dragon exist so it is a part of Reality as a whole. which you belong to

.com.au says:

the dragon doesn't exist objectively it only exists inside my mind

Abrahim says:

im talking about REALITY as a whole, which whatever can possibly happen inside your mind can happen because reality allows it to happen its a part of reality the whole

.com.au says:

so both subjective and objective?

Abrahim says:

Im saying Reality encompasses ALL, subjective, objective, what you think, what you do, what you see what is here what is there, what is inside your "mind" and what happens with your brain

.com.au says:

mmhmm

Abrahim says:

Reality is not ONLY composed of Matter, it encompasses what is tangible and testable, physical and material, and what is not.

.com.au says:

well if you wish to define it as such I'm not going to disagree with you

Abrahim says:

hehe kl what else would you call it? Rather than reality?

.com.au says:

the total sum of subjective thought processes combined with all physical existence

Abrahim says:

Reality is what all that we know and don't yet know and may never know exists within, what all possible things that can possibly exist, exist within, what possibilities have not happened but can happen exist within, what all possible thoughts you can possibly think exist within

it encompasses everything absolutely everything and that is just our reality

.com.au says:

well if you wish to define it as such I won't disagree with you

Abrahim says:

lol k Reality in everyday usage means "everything that exists". The term reality, in its widest sense, includes everything that is, whether it is observable, accessible or understandable by science, philosophy, or any other system of analysis. Reality in this sense may include both being and nothingness, whereas existence is often restricted to being (compare with nature).

.com.au says:

yeah I can agree with that

Abrahim says:

yay so thats what I believe in too that it is the ultimate thing the most "powerful" people say they would call a big thing coming from the sky God but I wouldnt, because if something big came from the sky, it would still be smaller and within Reality the possibility for it to exist even etc etc whatever variations. The only God, The most powerful thing, The thing which allows us to do what we can do and think is Reality. It is not some man controlling us in the sky, but what we've discussed

.com.au says:

so you define god as the total sum of all thought processes combined with all things in existence but concious

Abrahim says:

concious in the way that Reality is active or else there wouldnt be this

.com.au says:

k I suppose we can avoid an entire minefield by avoiding anthropomorphizing this backdrop? by not

Abrahim says:

could you elaborate on that? whatcha mean?

.com.au says:

well as you define reality can we avoid giving it preference? that is, reality is impartial to all forms of actions, thoughts and emotions, basically what I'm trying to say is can we exclude reality as you define it from having one dominant preference that isn't part of what the thinkers prefer

Abrahim says:

Reality allows everything we are capable of doing or thinking each

.com.au says:

right

Abrahim says:

its preference is what is under dispute if it has any

.com.au says:

but we aren't going to anthropomorphize it right?

Abrahim says:

just as soon as we do open war begins lol

.com.au says:

that is assume that in thinks like a human it

Abrahim says:

it doesnt think like a human a guarantee

.com.au says:

cool

Abrahim says:

but perhaps our creations have intentions I mean, penis for vagina etc even though the penis can go in the ear

.com.au says:

I dunno yeah

Abrahim says:

its not intended for that

.com.au says:

but it can

Abrahim says:

it allows it

.com.au says:

maybe anatomy is less the result of intention as it is the result of maximum survival advantage

Abrahim says:

I dont believe in a human consciousness that sits around thinking like us and making intentions, I know that the possibilities for our evolution were limited what I mean to say is all the conditions in reality the possibilities that played

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

allowed for us to happen this way

.com.au says:

of course

Abrahim says:

but that there are no strange oddities that I know of in the system such as me suddenly talking to you then you totally dissapearing from where you are without moving etc etc like gaps or anything, nothing we are aware of at least, meaning it limited the options for this reality of ours

.com.au says:

we could say that there is only one option

Abrahim says:

it didnt let the possibility of all possibilities to play at once

.com.au says:

go all deterministic

Abrahim says:

yeah im not sure, I mean I dont want to give murderers excuses lol

.com.au says:

just because something happens doesn't mean it's right I mean hell, nature is full of disease, pestilence, famine corruption and destruction

Abrahim says:

what would be most "wrong" is in a dynsfunction or broken system

.com.au says:

doesn't mean any of these things are right

Abrahim says:

but I think those are part

.com.au says:

just means they happen

Abrahim says:

they certainly arent bad in my opinion but factors which have so far, or seemingly, kept the balance of things

.com.au says:

yeah the important thing is that it's a bitch to find a pattern in nature or intent in nature we could almost say that it has no intent reality that is now, to find out possible reasons why freak occurences aren't occuring

Abrahim says:

well the only intent I see is in that it exists, that it is active, and that it is FUNCTIONING properly, with no glitches, it is smooth.

.com.au says:

I posit various laws of physics to explain this phenomona

Abrahim says:

well yes those are part of reality but I am aware that it has not allowed the possibility for all possibilities to play at once, or the possibility for GLITCHES or GLITCHES that we can observe or test such as...blip the computer screen is gone suddenly WTFs etc lol so in that sense it is very smooth and is not wild or chaotic as some claim which brings us back to its "conciousness" and design, only visible in its limitations for our reality. its lack of glitches and chaos

.com.au says:

hmm well a good explanation would be that it is self-contained and unreachable by anything outside

Abrahim says:

well in my opinion there is absolutely nothing but Absolute Ultimate Reality, we being just part of it, this universe being a portion but not the whole who knows how many other possibilities completely different

.com.au says:

maybe but plurality should not be posited unnecessarily

Abrahim says:

whatcha mean?

.com.au says:

okkams razor: all other things being equal, choose the explanation that makes the least unfounded assumptions

Abrahim says:

oh I dont know if its unfounded to say our reality is limited, controlled, unchaotic(no glitches)

.com.au says:

I never said it wasn't

Abrahim says:

yep

.com.au says:

I'm saying it's unfounded to submit other worlds that are in effect, un observable and unverifiable

Abrahim says:

oh ok yeah I was just stating for some food for thought

Abrahim says:

lol

.com.au says:

so this could be the only possible world but that leaves little room for choice

Abrahim says:

we dont know about the others, We will never know about other Realities within the Ultimate Reality.

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

We do have a whole gamut of options at any moment, we can perform one, rather like a snapshot of multiple tasks at once but I mean its one frame.

.com.au says:

as we cannot verify the existence of other realities we'll just apply okkams razor and say that they do not exist for the present

Abrahim says:

one frame at a time, every moment

.com.au says:

if we find any evidence at all that they do exist we'll rethink that statement

Abrahim says:

we cant how can you?

[email protected] says:

no idea

Abrahim says:

another reality is beyond the possibility of existing within this reality or processing

.com.au says:

kind of a bitch aint it?

Abrahim says:

if we are able to process it then it is part of this reality.

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

in any case what is for sure is there is one Ultimate Reality to which we, and what we know, and what we can do possibly and think possibly, exist within.

.com.au says:

yeah and that reality is expanding all the time

Abrahim says:

I say rather that the universe is expanding and that Reality is stable. our Reality is Stable, the universe being within Reality, the Universe expanding.

.com.au says:

yeah but the range of what we can think and do is getting bigger all the time

Abrahim says:

but I do believe those possibilities were ALWAYS available to us, that no "new" possibilities are added. That at the time no humans existed, the possibility for massive towering structures made by "humans" did exist or any other creature that may have appeared who knows the possibility possibilities yes our range of understanding is growing constantly and stuff like that but the possibilities, what is possible, have been part of this reality always none being added, subtracted in the sense that once a possibility is performed in that frame no other possibilities can be performed that frame is past that moment click click click and within the possibilities are a whole gamut of thoughts we can possibly think, some of which some of us have already thought

.com.au says:

so other realities can be discerned by a simple game of "what if"

Abrahim says:

Ultimate Reality is one, Our Reality is also one but is part of Ultimate Reality, I do not know if other Realities and universes or possibilities exist that we will never be aware of since our reality can not process or connect to it but all belong within the Jurisdiction of Ultimate Reality which is essentially All there is and Every Was and All that can possibly Be.

.com.au says:

which encompasses all possible scenarios

Abrahim says:

yep

.com.au says:

and manifests itself in our reality

Abrahim says:

what does?

.com.au says:

ultimate reality

Abrahim says:

yes our specific Reality is made of Ultimate Reality, Existing Within Ultimate Reality, is one of the possibilities clearly Encompassed by Ultimate Reality, How do we know? Because here we are.

.com.au says:

right

Abrahim says:

Also within the possibilities of Reality are you and me having this conversation, and human religions all of them, those that exist, and do not exist, and all potential concepts of a "God"

.com.au says:

except logically contradictory attributes which are of course, impossible

Abrahim says:

yeah but the possibility for people to think of them, write them, accept them, imagine them and all that etc etc and I personally think these ideas about Reality are not entirely new or alien to history but rather that people have thought it, realized it, some even explained it, others misunderstood it, and made concepts that were humanized to make others understand, metaphors, which later ended up degrading the essential message, people

.com.au says:

kinda sucks

Abrahim says:

yeah lol Most people religious, and some non religious, say they image or would accept a God that is within Reality which to me would mean it is limited, and nothing is beyond Ultimate Reality

.com.au says:

right

Abrahim says:

so that Ultimate Reality is the highest thing, the ONLY thing essentially when you get right down to it

Abrahim says:

The True One.

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

So the question comes, does Ultimate reality communicate with what is within it? It is "Alive" in the sense that we are alive and functioning and that everything is in constant motion. But does it communicate with us? How can we ever know if it does? It certainly can not Communicate with us as you and I communicate with each other, it lacks any form and is what we are within, it is beyond us. What it CAN do is allow for people to concieve of the possibility of its existence and for people to, to some degree, comprehend it

.com.au says:

mm so god exists because I can conceive it?

Abrahim says:

Ultimate Reality exists even if you can't concieve of it as a thought

.com.au says:

right

Abrahim says:

and there are a whole bunch of Gods a practically infinite number of possibilities we can think of as Gods

.com.au says:

so

Abrahim says:

the only True God in my Opinion being what all those possibilities are within, Ultimate Reality.

.com.au says:

so all that there is, was, and can possibly be that is god right?

Abrahim says:

yeah, what we've discussed as Ultimate Reality, what has our Reality within it, and our Universe and what everything is made of and all that

.com.au says:

cool

Abrahim says:

that we are all part of the same thing but just part we are not the whole of it and essentially there is no break in it, its all one whole

.com.au says:

well yours is certainly not the god of philosophers or abraham

Abrahim says:

im not sure about that

.com.au says:

well they assume a somewhat limited god at least abraham did with the jealousy and the burning bush's and all that crazy jazz

Abrahim says:

lol yeah if what is written is true, I am uncertain about those things origins I mean to say if Abraham, if he existed, what he thought himself or what he was told what I know is that its been a long time since then long in our terms at least

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

and that alot has probably been altered in re writings and with misunderstandings

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

for all I know, the real Abraham couldve been talking about the same God as me and humans simply misunderstood in retellings or the story or to make it easier to understand for other people simply made the God more humanized especially for translations and in language shifts I tried to explain this to a person who spoke english in Norway but they could not at all comprehend what I was saying lol so to explain it in a humanized way might have been easier etc even though I personally didnt. It is a possibility within Reality that some can come to this understanding and attempt to assist others to learn, or that one might be in a form of "direct" communication through "inspiration" its our mind doing the work and the processing of all the info, its the info within reality to decipher if it is true or not is left to us what we accept as true possibly is within the jurisdiction of Reality. Can Ultimate Reality aka God manifest its entire self in something? No, not more than it already is everything, everything made of it, everything a manifestion within reality. so that dispels any God within Reality.

.com.au says:

any special thing

Abrahim says:

can it communicate? Yes, in a sense of inspiration of truth, the human does the thinking, the possibility provided by ultimate reality.

.com.au says:

the burning bush story assumed that god was outside of it all

Abrahim says:

in the case of Moses he was apparently the only one whom manifested as part of his "inspiration" an actual voice all possible "miracles" are within the realm of physics and reality still I dont think there has ever been a miracle so absurd or out of wack like a person just dissapearing zapped out of existance lol its always something within reality, something possible, something capable of happening physically and existing within reality

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

If they happened or not, I wasn't there what is written so far and accepted by many are things that are always within physical limits and possibilities for the most part I do believe true prophets, "inspired" if their true texts and what originally was given and all that, I do believe they preach this in what way they can but also made in a way that one can understand inspiration not coming in the form of a series of digits 45923=4-59=3-592=592=591=-924=194=19 or whatever but clearly in a form that the individual himself and the people around him can understand because it was the persons mind doing the work the processing, the computing, the speaking, the possibility was Ultimate Realities, as we can not manifest or create anything, nor can we produce possibilities that were not already there so the ultimate credit of the inspiration goes to Ultimate Reality "God" though the person did the physical work of it the thinking, and maybe not so directly thinking or trying to think

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

but the speaking, the processing and all that

.com.au says:

but that's like saying the credit for mona lisa goes to red, blue, yellow and canvas and because viewing it in unfiltered form is rather plain

Abrahim says:

the Credit for the Mona Lisa goes ultimate to Ultimate Reality, which allowed the possibility for his hands to move, the image to appear that way and the paint to settle that way, his mind to think the thoughts it thought and the possibility of the name Mona Lisa and all the other factors that went into it

.com.au says:

right

Abrahim says:

but the artist did the processing and the work and toiled and all that and made it some might Thank God for it, that wouldnt be so far from appropriate, hehehe if they understand at least

.com.au says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

I honestly dont believe that the prophets sat there and thought it out and then claimed it was inspiration so much as a kind of clear consciousness "inspiration" which can be translated as "communication" but rather "understanding"

.com.au says:

I mean the canvas and thr primary colours of dye granted the possibility of the mona lisa happening

Abrahim says:

yep

.com.au says:

but da-vinci made it stand out

Abrahim says:

and the ultimate reality granted the possibility for Da Vinci to make it stand out

.com.au says:

right damn you and your linguistic trickery

Abrahim says:

what would be a word for me? to describe me based on what you have experienced with me so far?

.com.au says:

zen on LSD

Abrahim says:

hahaha good one I like that



[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 05-23-2006).]

sp0rkius
2006-05-23, 07:06
quote:I want to talk to you on MSN Messenger, AIM, or YAHOO. What's your addy, I'd love to add you to one of those?

[email protected], for MSN

I'm going for a piss but I'll be back pretty soon. I'll be off to breakfast in about an hour, and after that I'll probably not be online again till the 13th of June (don't ask), but it'll be cool to speak to you then if we don't this morning.

Abrahim
2006-05-23, 07:32
Cya there!

Abrahim
2006-05-24, 10:49
Any comments or questions?

Abrahim
2006-05-25, 16:41
The Following are is a convo I had that is relevant to this Thread:

says:

Pardon me for having to sign off. msn is being very uncooperative tonight. i hope you received my last messages.

Abrahim says:

oh im not sure I did but I'm glad you're back

says:

thanks

Abrahim says:

I feel that everyone who meets anyone, they each serve some function for the other for whatever reason, yes my intentions with that guy was to convert him to my way of thinking though he was the one who messaged me originally, I cut out the large opening part of the convo where it was just regular talk, I wanted to know why he messaged me so then it got into the Reality stuff

says:

i see

Abrahim says:

as for you, I feel that I singled you out for a similar reason, that whoever hears it is to hear it and all that BUT if you hadn't read that Islam post thing, (I have two others, The TRUE Religion, and WHAT IS GOD?) I wouldnt have mentioned or really gotten into beliefs for some time. as I prefer people not to know right off the bat and to slowly introduce concepts

says:

i can see how that would put a more positive spin on things, otherwise people may misinterpret you and feel as though they are being judged, or looked down upon.

Abrahim says:

yeah what I like to do for those who dont know my beliefs is basically do and continue what we did the first time we talked

says:

the best example is living well Right on!

Abrahim says:

heheh When you told me you were reading the Islam thing then I figured I might as well explain it further. I'm not at all neutral, my intentions, for those who are able to comprehend and understand what I'm saying, is "conversion" and bringing them closer to what I view is right, and teaching them the Qur'an and all that.

says:

a noble cause, if any

Abrahim says:

Though in general I dont really get into it with people unless I feel they have a capacity for it, or somehow give me the feeling that they should at least hear about it to everyone I explain things but not everyone knows why

says:

the curiosity was killing me. i had to ask you directly. hehe

Abrahim says:

So we were discussing the innocence of people who are without the message, if ever there were such a people, and those people arent really of concern their dealings are their own BUT what is of concern now that curiosity brought us here is our destination and direction

says:

but i'm saying there ARE such a people, and that cultural influence has a lot to do with perception.

Abrahim says:

yes it does

says:

and in my opinion, if people exist, then they are of concern to all of us. *people like that exist

Abrahim says:

true, but if we can't reach them

says:

what happens? they are condemned to hell?

Abrahim says:

I dont think so unless they did get an opportunity to guidance and understanding but turned away, but if not, their judgement is not within range to decipher its really their life, I know all humanity is the concern of humans but I mean I dont know them, and I cant say what happens to them the Qur'an never suggests those who never recieve the message get punished, but that everyone gets the like of what they earned and not even an "Atom's weight" of injustice will be done but thats a matter of faith

says:

in laymans term's, it's tit-for-tat. right? the message behind that makes sense.

Abrahim says:

well I dont want to confuse that with personal human law where forgiveness is often better for the individual and should not be tit for tat

says:

i concur forgiveness is one of the greatest gifts one can possess

Abrahim says:

the Qur'an also concurs with the following : 005.044

Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.

And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.

says:

why is the concept of Allah necessary, if within each person is the tendency towards good or bad? could they accept the principles of Islam without recognizing Allah?

Abrahim says:

every single thing good you do, you do for yourself, and those who do bad, the loss is their own. That is the Qur'ans view. It is important to know what Allah is, NOT some Diety out in space, but actual, literal reality thats why I repeat it so much denying "Allah" is like denying yourself, the computer screen, everything

says:

but only if your perception of reality is that of Allah. if Allah is not a part of your perception of reality, yet you STILL manage to live a Good life, is it still wrong?

Abrahim says:

its not perception of reality being Allah, its that REALITY, this, here, what you and I are experience, the DIFFERENCES in our experience, all the possible things you can possible, do or think, all the options executed, non executed, and available are all part of the Ultimate Reality, and that is God, Reality. Its not about Perceptions, ALL possible perceptions are within the Realm of Reality.

says:

and why would the belief "Allah is a symbol for What is Good", be false? For some, he is a part of God, for others, he may just be another symbol for God, nothing more or less.

Abrahim says:

no no

says:

but Abrahim, you cannot have reality without having some kind of perception of it ... wouldn't that be almost the definition of "unconscious"?

Abrahim says:

Allah is just a word of God. I'm saying that every possible PERCEPTION available in existence and reality is a possibility only because reality has the option for it

says:

it doesn't just have the option for it... it DEPENDS on it

Abrahim says:

what we dont have an option for, for example if we dont have the option of a possible concept, NO one can think of that concept or even concieve of it

says:

for without it, that said "reality" could not exist. but concepts and perceptions are infinite, right? (this is going to turn into a Tower of Babel/Library of Babel discussion)

Abrahim says:

You and I exist, especially You, You are completely dependant on Reality, not your PERCEPTION of Reality (which is a part of Reality) but REALITY, meaning everything you can say do or think being within that realm

says:

I can agree to disagree on that

Abrahim says:

but it shouldnt be a discussion on perceptions cause im saying ALL possible perceptions a living human being can think of is within the realm of Ultimate Reality as a possible thing they can possibly think of if the option for the thought of that concept did not exist within the system, the thought could not EXIST

says:

I stand by: Reality cannot exist without my perception of it.

Abrahim says:

oh

says:

this conversation will quickly become circular, because you believe that perception exists BECAUSE of reality. I'd like to politely agree to disagree.

Abrahim says:

lol I believe that you would not be able to think it, or think at all if you did not first of all exist, second of all have the option to think.

says:

but again - without having a perception of existing, i wouldn't really exist, would I? I would be a complete shell without a furtive mind to understand my surroundings.

Abrahim says:

and im saying perception is a part of reality, something we all have and its not all the same

says:

not the same. just co-dependent on one another

Abrahim says:

but all the possible perceptions one can percieve are part of ultimate reality and if their option didnt exist then it wouldnt exist you're not a sol·ip·sist? "The theory or view that the self is the only reality. " "The theory that the self is the only thing that can be known and verified. "

says:

thank you, you provided that kernel of information earlier

Abrahim says:

yes I did but are you in agreement with that idea? My simple conflict with that is that one can not think or percieve or do anything without being within ultimate reality, there is nothing but ultimate reality, all the options within it made of it, part of it ok so basically what are you saying? I clearly don't understand (I think lol)

says:

relative to being known and verified, I do not believe that the Self is primary in being able to exist. For example, I could be this perception-less shell of a person just "existing" in reality, but others (through their own realities, because they HAVE perception!) would still be able to both know, and verify my existence

Abrahim says:

who is perceptionless?

says:

(to answer you question on: are you a solipsist?) no one is, if they have any concept of Reality

Abrahim says:

even if they dont define a concept, if they can see, hear or think, if they are alive in other words they are percieving a reality only a dead body is a perceptionless shell so where is it that we are in disagreement? per·ceive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-sv)

tr.v. per·ceived, per·ceiv·ing, per·ceives: To become aware of directly through any of the senses, especially sight or hearing.

To achieve understanding of; apprehend.

says:

I would like you to define that. Where do you think we are in disagreement? I cannot view the world through your perception, therefore you think you are right and I am wrong, and are politely attempting to point out the "error in my thinking". And I commend you for your effort, it is a noble one and I am sure not with any malice on your part. But it just seems that since we have such different "perceptions" of our Realities (concerning God), this will forever be a circular conversation, going nowhere (although admittedly interesting) I believe our perceptions on reality does not differ much at all except when it comes to God.

Abrahim says:

and im saying all your perceptions are within the realm of Reality, which is the place that makes perceptions available

says:

in your humbled opinion

Abrahim says:

and that God is that Ultimate Reality which we exist within, NOT a perception, as ALL perceptions are within it. We can think of the concept but it is THE concept.

says:

you believe in that (that God us the Ultimate Reality)because you choose to shape your views on reality based on a sect of religious beliefs. And I respect that. I believe that God is a symbol for those who are trying to get a better handle on their place in this Universe.

Abrahim says:

and im saying the Universe, the systems within the universe, physics, possibilities, atoms, matter, can not appear, nor sustain themselves without a base which allows for their options to exist, THAT IS REALITY

says:

and the difference, my friend... is that you choose to define your reality based on God, and I don't.

Abrahim says:

im saying the word Reality and God are interchangeable

says:

God is your symbol for everything that encompasses Reality. You use that to shape your views of it. it is interchangeable to you, because you subscribe to that Train of Thought.

Abrahim says:

You can exchange the words, God being the only thing worthy of Worship the most powerful Thing, Reality being one in the same

says:

You can exchange the words as well. I say: Whatever helps you to wake up happy each morning.

Abrahim says:

lol So you believe in reality, and that all perceptions available for one to think of reality, are available within Reality, but that Reality is not "God"

says:

I do not use "God" as my symbol for defining reality.

Abrahim says:

we cal use the name Fred, its been called the Tao it doesnt mean anything its in reference to one thing

says:

I realize that that mode of thinking probably seems foreign to you, but that is the beauty of individual perception. exactly. I could choose to use the word "Cantaloupe" more importantly, I do not believe in heaven or hell, or an afterlife

Abrahim says:

from my perspective it seems like you're not understand that im saying the same thing as you, but that the name of the thing is meaningless, yes we can all it anything from Allah or God to "Cantaloupe" or Tao its one thing we're talking about though what is typically considered or called Reality or Existence, our perception of it is based on us, but it is what makes it available to have perceptions of it

says:

now we're on Semantics

Abrahim says:

you believe that a person lives, they die, and their energy is simply converted into something else right?

says:

I believe that once our conciousness has expired, there is simply no way one could "experience" heaven or hell

Abrahim says:

you are right completely

says:

would we have consciousness without a brain to support it? absolutely not.

Abrahim says:

absolutely not I agree completely when you are dead and without a body or brain to function it you are dead nothing experiencing absolutely nothing no heaven no hell nothing that I agree with.

says:

so could you experience heaven or hell? or any kind of neutral afterlife, for that matter? it seems not.

Abrahim says:

the "soul" is nothing, doesnt think, isnt our minds, isnt bad or good, its simply the energy of a living thing, or you know, like, life in the plant

you CAN NOT without a brain or eyes or body experience heaven or hell

says:

the soul is just an abstract thought to me

Abrahim says:

what would you call it our life force

says:

our conscious awareness, which expires when our brains expire?

Abrahim says:

I mean the life in a planet

says:

yes, that is what i would call it, if i absolutely HAD to refer to it as a soul. although i do think it's a nice metaphor

Abrahim says:

plant

says:

but plants aren't subject to afterlife existence, so what is the relevance?

Abrahim says:

what would you call the difference between a living plant and a dead plant what does one have that the other doesnt have

says:

^ see above. where is the relevance to the afterlife?

Abrahim says:

its important we're defining life force, energy, soul what is it? what shall we call it? the life in a plan plant

says:

you can call it "life". why introduce another metaphor, clutter it up even further?

Abrahim says:

ok we will call it life no its not a metaphor, the life in the plant is the same as the life in us

says:

now help me realize the relevance to this as concerned with the afterlife. i meant why call it anything BUT life?

Abrahim says:

exactly soul should just be a word for life, there is no such thing as a

spirit

says:

pull up a plant from the ground and sever it's roots ... it dies, the same as our "soul" to brain analogy

Abrahim says:

or a concious soul

says:

soul is a metaphor of life. established! life dies, soul dies. BAM!

Abrahim says:

yes but im clearifying that it has no being or form

says:

i agree with you there.

Abrahim says:

not the greek spirit concept or immortal soul concept there is no such thing and a soul can not experience anything

says:

no form, no being... but is still totally dependent on the brain for a person to be aware of it

Abrahim says:

it is nothing but a word for life life in a living thing

says:

i gotcha

Abrahim says:

ok good

says:

so this "life" dies. then what?

Abrahim says:

then we're on the same level and when you die your soul or life force or energy is converted, goes to the mass, whatever you wanna call it, decomposers use it, whatever, its GONE

says:

why does it have to be converted? why doesn't it just NOT EXIST, much like our bodies and bones don't exist, once they've decomposed?

Abrahim says:

no no thats not what im saying by converted im trying to say that life is gone when you are dead

says:

yes. go on

Abrahim says:

that energy returns to the mass of energy or if you dont want to say that, basically that your life is gone it doesnt "go" anywhere except back to the mass of energy or is no longer existing

says:

so where does the afterlife come in?

Abrahim says:

it doesnt when you're dead when you're dead, you're dead

says:

so why do they call it "after"life? heaven or hell cannot be had in "present"life. it insinuates that this all happens once you're dead ... or like most scriptures like to put it : "when you pass on from this realm to the next"

Abrahim says:

thats untrue, I mean that simply isnt true there is no realm

says:

to me, Abrahim, "afterlife" is the exact same experience as "beforebirth". You just - aren't.

Abrahim says:

where our bodies dont exist you were "dead" before you were born and so you will be "dead" again poof gone, nothing, no realm, no brain no thoughts done

says:

but YOU aren't YOU except for at one point in time... when you are alive! therefore, what happens to the "you" before or after that period ... is of absolute zero relevance!

Abrahim says:

yes

says:

the right here and now. it's all you can contribute to as a human being. those are my thoughts.

Abrahim says:

and it is ABSOLUTE zero too prior to your birth you were nothing afterwards you are nothing you are only now so lets see what we agree on

says:

so the scope of heaven and hell ... how would that affect a person? we agree on this: prior to your birth you were nothing, afterwards you are nothing

Abrahim says:

and we agree that when you are dead there is no realm and that life is nothing by itself except life it is not like a spirit waltzing around and we agree on the irrelevant option plain called Cantaloupe aka Reality and perceptions of it exist and we agree that life exists in a plant and does not exist when it is dead

says:

but i implore you: what is the relevance of heaven or hell, then? other than abstract thought and a metaphorical "incentive" for people to live good lives?

Abrahim says:

nope it doesnt exist when you are dead you are dead no heaven and hell

says:

why would the bible, the Qu'ran, and other holy scriptures point to it, then?

Abrahim says:

the Qur'an does NOT disagree with what we've said here it never suggests spirits waltzing around or being bad or good, or that they have a form or are independant from the body or life functions

says:

so how are they referencing it? I read your description of Paradise versus Hell is it all metaphor, incentive?

Abrahim says:

no

says:

then on what level does it happen?

Abrahim says:

and it says when you are dead you are dead, there is no communication or experience, you can think of it as sleep (dreamless) there is no soul in your body there is no life you are dead, nothing

says:

then what does heaven and hell encompass?

Abrahim says:

now paradise and punishment dont at all exist as alternate realms or during your death

says:

when, then?

Abrahim says:

nah I dont want to say lol

says:

umm, okay

Abrahim says:

I will say it though just finding quotes

says:

it's alright, you may use your own words. i prefer that to scripture. it's not the Qur'ans opinions I seek. It's Abrahims.

Abrahim says:

the Qur'an says it nicely because it gives your side of the argument too

says:

you're a wise fellow, I am sure you could piece it together for me nicely but if you prefer it that way, I understand and am cool with it.

Abrahim says:

dang so many quotes

says:

just say it from your head, and use your "heart" as a guidepost

says:

it's a good exercise in Independent Thinking

Abrahim says:

"And they used to say, "What! when we die and become dust and bones, shall we then indeed be raised up again?- And also our forefathers? ""Say: "Yea, those of old and those of later times, "All will certainly be gathered together for the meeting appointed for a Day well-known.

says:

if you are wondering, I have been punctuating with alot more smiley-faces than usual because I am trying to convey to you that I am willing and eager to understand your beliefs, even though I do not agree with them. And I wish to remain congenial and friendly while doing it.

Abrahim says:

They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?" Say: Be ye stones or iron Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up),- (Yet shall ye be raised up)!" then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say, "When will that be?" Say, "May be it will be quite soon! "They say: "What! when we die and become dust and bones, could we really be raised up again?

"Such things have been promised to us and to our fathers before! they are nothing but tales of the ancients!" Say: Whose is the earth, and whoever is therein, if you know?

says:

Should I interpret "raised up" as reincarnated?

Abrahim says:

no you shouldnt hehe

says:

born again, then?

Abrahim says:

nope 075.001

I do call to witness the Resurrection Day;

Does man think that We cannot assemble his bones?

Nay, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers.

But man wishes to do wrong (even) in the time in front of him.

He questions: "When is the Day of Resurrection?"

says:

resurrected, then. recreated. born again. basically.

Abrahim says:

rather yeah but rather ressurected on judgement day

says:

I see. I'm sorry I don't respond well to scripture, it's just that it's your individual thoughts I am interested in, and I could easily pick up the Qur'an if I was trying to get that particular view. i am learning though! and thanks for being patient about it.

Abrahim says:

lol yeah but I included the quotes because they showed the dissatisfaction of the people in olden days too

says:

right on, right on

Abrahim says:

lol anyway thats where it comes in

says:

wow! it's almost tomorrow already!

Abrahim says:

lol thanks for staying at it with me

says:

my pleasure. i live to swap thoughts with others another time, for sure! Keep on keeping on.

Abrahim says:

lol next time I guess we'll discuss further into the ressurection and then judgement day

says:

i've already bookmarked it in my brain Goodnight, and be well!

Abrahim says:

you too thanks for listening to all this lol

says:

hey! you listened right back at me! thanks for reciprocating all this rich thought

Abrahim says:

we agree on most points I think, what I said here was not at all in defiance to the Qur'an, the ressurection relevant to our discussion on how there is no such thing as an alternate realm or a soul as a being or experiences without the body of course, I do think probably, just like the people in the olden days, you'll probably never place much faith into the concept hehe and there is absolutely no way to prove it as true since it hasnt happened the only proof being the scientific facts mentioned in the Qur'an in relation to validate the source of knowledge but thats nothing for most lol can I copy paste one last relevant revelation?

says:

but we're getting ahead of ourselves! we'll take this up again. if i don't get sleep i will not be able to function tomorrow and i've got HUGE day. thanks again! till next time

Abrahim
2006-05-25, 16:55
The Following is a Convo Relevant to this thread, it includes many counter arguments:

Abrahim says:

lol hurrah! the Abrahim "Your Only God is Reality" thing is spreading like wild fire the only nemesis being a Finnish Philosopher goes by the name Antti and he's certainly Anti whatever anyone has to say lol

says:

dont tell someone bought that stuff another weakling, who doesnt stand by what he believes oi!

Abrahim says:

lol nah I just get them to the obvious fact that God, the only God there will ever be, the controlling force in their life that gives them all the options they will ever have, the thing they are completely dependant on, the ultimate power is Reality and without Reality they are nothing, it is the only God, thats as far as I get them lol

says:

well if reality is god, that means that there is no god, there is just the world so you saying you agree with me hmmm

Abrahim says:

yeah man, not the world only though, just Reality there is no "god" within Reality or some man in the sky controlling things like a Chess board Reality is God, God is Reality, there is no Other God. Your life depends on it, you can't even think a thought without it.

says:

why you include the word god in it

Abrahim says:

to stop people speaking about False Gods, imagining or expecting some humanized idea they made up because Reality is the ultimate Power the only true "God" in our lives

says:

you know thats taoism

Abrahim says:

yes it is same thing they call it the Tao Wiccans some of them, they call it the Source others call it Mother Nature lolz

says:

and i call it........useless lol

Abrahim says:

but thats too humanized for me, I call it Reality, and God. to dispel false ideas about God and make people understand they are looking for something that doesnt exist lol how is it useless man, you wouldnt be able to say that if it werent for Reality it provided you with the option to think AND say that, and any other possible things you could have said

says:

well its useless to babble about it you know your ideas have changed towards mine the whole time.........so i guess i was right afterall *does a victory dance*

Abrahim says:

lol no they havent changed at all really, I thought they might have changed too, but then I read that old document of mine and found I was saying the same thing lol but was stating "God is in the Image of Nothing" which is true, and then I said "God is Reality" lol you just hate the word God, im using it to make people understand its the Only God they will ever have, the only ultimate power: if any God exists within it, it is dependant on it,

says:

well i dont hate the word , but you keep saying god is nothing......yet you keep talking about it lol.......its nothing! lol the fact that you use the word god means that your perception is changed by the common beliefs of religions such as christinity

says:

and you use that word to twist it to something you want you cant say god is nothing, when in definition it is something greater than that you cant take a word twist it and change it definition thats the only problem i have with that word

Abrahim says:

lol I say God is in the IMAGE of Nothing to dispel people saying God is some Man then after I say what God is, the only thing that is worthy to be considered "God" the thing with the true power thats Reality.

says:

it just doesnt work that way the word god is already imprinted in peoples mind to mean something else

Abrahim says:

lol sure it does! but I've removed the "God is in the Image of Nothing" thing from my promotion, even though its to say, if there was no universe, there would still only be Reality, and Reality by itself has no image or form, but is infinite, a plain of the manifestation of all possible possibilities, and our reality and everything in it is part of that made of that existing within that. yes the word God is LOADED, totally Loaded: people screamed "THATS NOT GOD!" athiests screamed that too, because of their preconception. and I say "IT IS THE ONLY GOD YOU'LL EVER HAVE, YOU ARE COMPLETELY DEPENDANT ON IT, THERE IS NO GOD BUT THIS GOD, REALITY" and then they stop lol

says:

doesnt work reality has infinite possibilites? .......is that reality?

Abrahim says:

this reality does not have infinite possibilities

says:

if reality has infinite possibilites then its posible to have infinite possibilites that reality doesnt have infinite possibilites

Abrahim says:

im not denying the possibilities of other realities within Ultimate Reality, and its true that fact is not really relevant to us, we can never in my opinion experience another reality, our current reality is not capable of processing anything but what is available for this reality. Our reality DOES NOT have infinite possibilities, our possibilities are MANY, but limited still eventually, very limited

says:

so it changes again lol, do you have anything certain in this whole thing?

Abrahim says:

lol its not changes! nothing is changing ive said the same things a million times just in different ways in my old lecture I used to say that Ultimate Reality encompasses the possibility for all possible Realities, of course this is CONJECTURE there may only be THIS REALITY, in any CASE it is the most powerful thing in our lives.

says:

and what does that mean.......there is only this reality?

Abrahim says:

not sure, I dont know

says:

does it have any meaning then why you keep saying it if its pointless lol

says:

for US there is only this Reality, this Reality is Relevant.

says:

and there is no one who disagrees with that.....so whats the point

Abrahim says:

lol no point I just get everyone to agree with me and vice versa then I get them naked

says:

its the same as saying strawberry is a strawberry.......and try to convince everyone that is the case

Abrahim says:

lol yes but the problem is not everyone understands that and looks for A God that doesnt exist so im showing religious people what the only God is, showing Athiests what they should say what the only God is.

says:

but if it exists in your mind isnt it reality?

Abrahim says:

nope just a part of reality like a poo or you or superimposed mental image of a dragon it exists as part of reality, it is not God

says:

yeah but if it can exist in your mind you cant say that it doesnt exist can you, its reality for them, who are you to deny the reality, you can only be sure about yourself

Abrahim says:

im saying it does exist, but its not THE Reality, THE reality is what allows them to think of all their various Gods, it has the possibility available already for whatever they can possibly think

no no I wont fall to Solipsism which is the belief that you are the only verifiable Reality

says:

lol

Abrahim says:

I say the only way you can think that is because YOU are in Reality

says:

but everyone has different reality

Abrahim says:

yes perceptions and all perceptions available are provided within reality, if the possibility for it is not within the bounds of reality, then you cant even think it whatever you can possibly do think or say has to exist already in reality as a possibility it can handle, in other words, an available possibility

says:

so your saying that the god the man on the cloud is possible since you can think of it, busted

Abrahim says:

no im saying thats not a GOD no matter WHAT

says:

lol you just said so

Abrahim says:

the only God is what makes it available for you to think that which is REALITY

says:

"if the possibility for it is not within the bounds of reality, then you cant even think it" so its possible

Abrahim says:

you can imagine everything from a God to a Dragon, the possibility for you to think that is available, neither of those are the REALITY which allows you to think those things, and that is the only True God. no no you misunderstood that above sentence about the possibility, im saying EVERY THOUGHT YOU CAN THINK is provided within reality not that every possible thing you can think can be MANIFEST in OBJECTIVE Reality.

says:

well i guess that also creates a loop that doubts your own theory

Abrahim says:

how?

says:

just as it doubts any other theory, it could be just a dragon

Abrahim says:

let me state it in bullet points:

The only True God, the most powerful thing in our life, is what allows us and gives us the ability to do things, and think things.

We can not manifest everything we think literally.

Reality provides all we can possibly do, or all we can possibly think, If the option to possibly think something does not exist for a specific thought, the thought can not exist, if the thought exists, Reality is what it is within, Reality including both objective reality, subjective reality, what is in your mind, what is outside.

God can not be a man or a Dragon because a Man and a Dragon are both things that in order to manifest those forms would still have to be within Reality, no matter what Reality always wins, it is the only God.

says:

and god meant what?

Abrahim says:

what?! The reason I use the term God is so they realize that Reality is the only True God as it is the power in which they exist, and all they can possibly think or do exists within, and is limited by.

says:

yeah but if you use the word god , your saying that reality is the almighty creator of the universe and so on, but reality cannot create.......it is what is created

Abrahim says:

created? no it doesnt seem to me that Ultimate Reality, in which this universe and this specific reality is manifest was created as absolutely nothing can exist Beyond Reality, and Nothing can do Only Nothing so nothing would exist if it was ever only nothing, so I place Reality is something that was always there, always will be. the Reason I go into all those possibilities is I state the conjecture that Ultimate Reality must be the manifestor of all possibilities, but thats only a conjecture, I dont know if this is the only Reality, if there were others before it, after it, or are right now...Yes, Clearly, things can manifest within Reality, as here we are, explain it to me otherwise?

says:

explain what? i iddnt understand anything you said lol

Abrahim says:

lol re readz it!

says:

ultimate reality in which this reality is manifest

Abrahim says:

ok let me break it down

"Created?"

"No it does not seem to me that Ultimate Reality, which is what this universe and specific reality and combination of possibilities exists within, was "created" (except manifested by Ultimate Reality."

I think this because only nothing can exist Beyond Reality.

Nothing can do Only Nothing, so if there were Absolute nothing prior to us, there would still be Nothing, nothing can only do nothing, something can not come from nothing.

I believe Ultimate Reality, has always existed, will always exist. It is essentially all there is and ever was and will be.

says:

then you believe that time is infinite.....

Abrahim says:

The Reason I talk about all those other possible Realities within Ultimate Reality is for the reason that, to explain our existence I say that Ultimate Reality manifests ALL possibilities, we are just one of the possibilities, this is only a CONJECTURE, I don't actually know this, I cant prove this. For us there is only this Reality the only one I believe we will ever know and can only experience.

says:

isnt dreams another reality, game can be another reality? you can experience them all still

Abrahim says:

no no they are all part of this Reality which is within Ultimate Reality. if they can be experienced, that means they exist in this Reality, Reality includes what is subjective, and objective.

says:

then your not ruling out religions......since people can experience and feel something special......it might be in this reality

Abrahim says:

maybe you're not understanding my definition of Reality, this Reality encompasses the possibilities for whatever we can experience, whatever we can see, whatever we can do, whatever can exist. That doesnt mean my thoughts can come true, but that they can exist and are still within reality, dependant on reality, they are within the realm of subjective reality, its not objective reality like your computer screen or mine. A superimposed mental image of a dragon: The dragon itself is not made of Matter. The processes that allow for the dragon thought are. You can only see the dragon.

says:

but it can cause physical things in you i think you have tricked yourself off the track here now your saying reality is everything, while everyone else is trying to find out what created the reality

Abrahim says:

all of that is still within Reality which includes all that, doesnt mean the dragon is objectively real, it means the thought of the dragon is within Reality, meaning you are having that thought within reality, experiencing it within reality, and all that, everything within Reality that can be within Reality is within Reality, including our possible thoughts. Doesnt mean those thoughts are OBJECTIVE as scientifically provable or manifest or physical, they can cause physical sensations but the physical sensations and the imagery of the thought are all possible only within Reality which is what we and those exist within, it does not mean they are OBJECTIVELY real.

says:

and what created it, is the god the power

Abrahim says:

God the Power, IS Ultimate Reality, It has always Existed, This Reality, This Universe, These possibilities we have all exist within it, where it comes from is Reality, this is because there is nothing BUT reality, nothing can exist beyond it, Ultimate Reality is The God so whats your explanation?

says:

i dont have explanation but yours is kinda boring lol.....

Abrahim says:

lol

says:

well it is........reality exists.......thats it

Abrahim says:

yep

says:

no one is arguing that it doesnt......

Abrahim says:

some do

says:

but i dont think that has anything to do with "god"

Abrahim says:

lol there is no "God" but "Reality"

says:

but reality is what your mind allows you to believe...........say what if there is another reality where we tranfer after we are done with this reality upon death and there is god dude waving , hello abrahim

Abrahim says:

I will never believe him he is NOT God, because I can see him, and he exists within Reality then, I am as much a God as him and both Our God is what we exist within.

says:

well that is only if you believe that your mind would be stronger than the ultimate power that has created this all

Abrahim says:

My mind is not Stronger than what I am Dependant on, Reality. it is completely limited and dependant on the options it has provided

says:

maybe it is that you want to be godlike , so you create a belief that you are.....and then desperately try to get approval from other people

Abrahim says:

im no more a part of Reality (God) than you or a tree we're all part of the same thing made of it, existing within it

says:

but everyone knows that thats just saying your atheist

Abrahim says:

lol but my Theo is Reality. its what I submit to, willingly or unwillingly, it is what im dependant on completely

says:

its no theory.........saying reality is reality is no theory it just is

Abrahim says:

exactly, and its the only thing worthy of being called God, as anything else that requires existing within Reality, is thus limited by the options it provides, in other words Reality is God, the Most Powerful God, the Only True God. Its got our asses in a bind lol

says:

not really , it might be that the reality we believe is completely different

Abrahim says:

doesnt matter: whatever we CAN believe possibly is provided by Reality.

says:

reality doesnt provide anything it just is we can change reality at will if you can control reality, arent you above it i dont like this reality thing it means nothing

Abrahim says:

sure we can so that too, im using the word provide as "it is what makes it available" No, You can NOT change the Reality you are dependant on, whatever "Will" you can possibly manifest is within Reality...Controlling yourself based on the limited options you have and the limited options of what you can think, is not being Above reality, but utilizing what it has provided, provision meaning what is available.

says:

but isnt reality dependant upon you? without you there is no reality

Abrahim says:

nah I dont believe that, I believe that Ultimate Reality is self sufficient, we are dependant on it, when we die Reality continues, this can be proven to most as when someone they know dies, life goes on, BUT a Solop guy will say that "PROVE TO ME WHEN IM DEAD THAT REALITY CONTINUES"

says:

your ultimate reality dies as you die , sorry lol

Abrahim says:

lol so you're a Solip guy!?

says:

what can i say, thats the reality

Abrahim says:

sol·ip·sism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slp-szm, slp-)

n. Philosophy

The theory that the self is the only thing that can be known and verified.

The theory or view that the self is the only reality.

says:

the problem with the whole thing is that reality doesnt provide any answers therefore it is not interesting it is useless to anyone

Abrahim says:

sure it does, what answers are you looking for? Reality is where all answers to questions that have answers can possibly exist...obviously its not "useless" as you are using it right now, and will be your whole life

says:

what about when life ends?

Abrahim says:

when you die, your experience of reality will end.

says:

how do you know? maybe its different reality or even same but with more knowledge your reality cannot answer that

Abrahim says:

well if you experience it then im including it within this Reality no matter what the circumstances, all of your journey is within reality. So if you die and you live on in Reality without the use of your brain or body? Or that you are ressurected in Body and Brain and can experience and process info again? "Afterlife" meaning a new life!!? If it happens then it is still within your journey and encompassed by Reality...

says:

so you dont rule religions out......it can be within your reality ......your just saying everything can be anything.....its reality. or reality is reality i mean

Abrahim says:

lol yeah lol I cant rule out anything I dont know, such as after we die or the distant future

says:

so in the end , your wrong to try to change people......since they might even be right

Abrahim says:

or even tommorow lol no im not wrong though

says:

you can be, .....................it can be the reality abes

Abrahim says:

all im doing is clearifying the ultimate reality being God, the only matter of Faith is in the ressurection and afterlife

says:

dont missuse the god now there can still be god in afterlife that is in the journey of reality

Abrahim says:

nope

says:

yes

Abrahim says:

cause if it exists in reality its not God some something else existing in reality

says:

sure it can be

Abrahim says:

no it cant be

says:

why couldnt it be maybe he created the law of reality that reality is the foundation

Abrahim says:

cause if its within reality its dependant on it, nothing within reality can do anything about reality and there is nothing outside of it Ultimate Reality is God.

says:

but now your limiting your theory to your own logic.......which cannot be the only logic in the world, i could say the same thing about time

Abrahim says:

lol I'm just stating the simple fact that anything within reality is thus limited by the possibilities it has provided for it, or else it could not exist, So if some Man said he was God, I can only experience him because of Reality, he is part of Reality, just as much as me, Ultimate Reality is the only God.

says:

time is the god because without it reality cannot exist only time can make something exist

Abrahim says:

Ultimate Reality has always existed, Time is within it. a concept of this reality.

says:

so how can time be created when itself requires time

Abrahim says:

Ultimate Reality is not within Time, it is the only thing all things are made of, Reality, the one we exist within and know, has time, time is within Reality

says:

how can reality exist before man who created the word and its meaning

Abrahim says:

lol its just a word, we could call it Omni if you want, or Louey

says:

if everything is made of reality then how can the concept of unreal exist?

Abrahim says:

unreal is a concept allowed by reality. so are many other concepts

says:

maybe its unreality that allows reality to exist lol

Abrahim says:

how does that work? Unreality= Nothing, Only Nothing can exist in Nothing, Only Ultimate Reality exists, and our Reality exists within Ultimate Reality. Ultimate Reality is the only God, Unreality as a concept, as well as the concept of nothing, are both concepts within Reality. The concept of Nothing can not be experienced or even thought of accurately.

says:

how can blackholes exist when they are in conflict with reality and logic?

Abrahim says:

how are they in conflict with Reality and Logic? if they Exist they are within Reality.

says:

because they can suck in light that is the absolute speed that anything can go, or the blackhole warps time and twists it

Abrahim says:

whatever it can do, the fact that it is doing it means it is within Reality.

says:

but what would that mean? what is the point of saying that

Abrahim says:

just to say nothing we can know, or think or experience or image is beyond Reality (subjective objective), that Ultimate Reality, in which our Reality exists, is the only God, what everything is dependant on. the only matter of Faith is what happens after we die or in the future.

says:

or what happened in past

Abrahim says:

true

says:

or if there is something else we cannot find in our reality which can be anything

Abrahim says:

yeah well thats none of our concern as whatever cant be in this reality wont be, whatever can be, can be.

says:

but still you arent ruling anything out there can still be men in the clouds you actually give hope to all religions lol because that can be within the reality reality is just a concept that everything is

Abrahim says:

lol there could possibly be men in clouds maybe, I dont know, but they will never be God, as if they can exist in form of thought or physically for us, They would be within Reality, Reality is the only God.

says:

it doesnt mean it has any power its just concept with no power god doesnt mean it would have to exist out of reality there can still be entity of power that decides if abes should be tortured eternally or given a car and a pepsi for a job well done no one cares if you say reality is reality......it holds no power......it is not of concern to anyone

Abrahim says:

lol man it IS of concern cause Reality is the POWER that we are dependant on

says:

no it isnt*, you said yourself reality is reality

Abrahim says:

all the options we have are dependant on it yes Reality is Reality. it has you in its power, you are controlled by its limitations.

says:

so ?

Abrahim says:

So there you have it.

says:

you cant break it

Abrahim says:

exactlyu

says:

so it doesnt concern

Abrahim says:

lol why you wanna break it! lol

says:

i dont , you do lol if you cant do anything about it, why is it your concern? it just is what you should be concerned of is what is inside the reality not the reality itself

Abrahim says:

true but its to stop people from the God is a man bandwagon, to Get athiests a proper definition of things, AND yes what is in reality is of concern. MOSTLY what is of concern in Religion and dependant on ones faith is THE FUTURE

says:

yeah but as i said god can be reality ........in the reality i mean

Abrahim says:

lol Reality is the God, there is nothing within it that can be God, if it is within it, it is within it, and thus Reality is still beyond it and more powerful and controlling and nothing can be beyond Ultimate Reality Ultimate Reality is God.

says:

and "reality is reality" is not a proper definition to anything yeah but reality is just concept.... there can still be some man controlling our lifes , where we go live for eternity thats what people are concerned of it can be the reality i'm not saying the dude that might control is beyond reality since reality is just a concept

Abrahim says:

lol Reality is a word for everything that exists, can possibly exist. in our minds or in physicality

says:

yes so the dude can exist

Abrahim says:

he's not God if he's within reality, just some dude, another part of reality just like me, even if he through some means of magic controls me, his control and his magic would then still be within Reality, Ultimate Reality is the God, he's just controller Dude, and I dont believe he exists. lol

says:

no god means the dude........it doesnt mean reality ..........definition of word my friend

Abrahim says:

lol

says:

seriosuly you cant change the word god to mean something without meaning

Abrahim says:

Reality is the only true "God". If some other power exists, it exists within it, dependant on it, even if it controls you, if it is within Reality is is part of Reality, made of Reality, Ultimate Reality is the only True Ultimate God.

says:

but what concern is that to you.........there can be the god inside reality......so what?

Abrahim says:

then we can call other things God like Money, or Dudes, but nay, those things, if experienced in mind or matter, are within Reality, the TRUE GOD

says:

the fact is that you allow the god to exist

Abrahim says:

and Reality (The True God) is what allows to call any of a whole gamut of options God.

Abrahim says:

Though it itself is the ultimate power on which you are dependant on. in which you can think those thoughts.

says:

but again doesnt matter to anyone reality just is reality

Abrahim says:

yep and one should accept that, and understand thats the ultimate and only God in their life, and the one to believe in not controller dudes in the sky, as if they exist, such as aliens, they are still within Reality.

says:

yeah but wouldnt you rather believe in them since they have the power to shove sharp metal objects in your butt after you die lol what good does it do to believe in reality since everyone knows it exists and is

Abrahim says:

lol Reality is what everyone and everything renders "worship" to willingly or unwillingly. I dont know these sharp metal butt guys and ive never seen them I'd be careful if I did see them though

says:

and is shaped by what happens yeah but still it doesnt matter you screaming reality is greater than you.....when you are in pain for eternity and your reality stuff just enforces that it might be possible

Abrahim says:

our world is shaped by what happens, our universe, BUT NOT REALITY, it is what has provided all the possibilities for what can happen, so what does happen is within it, its not Shaping Ultimate Reality, we are within it, and this Reality, but its shaping our life, our universe, or whatever depending on what you do lol...the options are provided by reality. lol I dont think I will be in pain for eternity for stating a fact that the only and ultimate God is Ultimate Reality and the only one everything renders worship to willingly or unwillingly, and if something can hurt me for saying that, they should make it clear to me

says:

they dont have to say anything to you.......what fun would that be

Abrahim says:

any number of possibilities and conjecture can be mentioned lol From alien Blargxix to huge metallic men who reincarnate me to eat me and then repeat lol none of them can be proven as of yet its in the future, one can only wait but I do personally have faith in the ressurection and judgement, I can not prove it at all

says:

yes so why you preaching like this is an alternative to everything else when its not

Abrahim says:

whatchu mean?

says:

well its not alternative your just saying reality is reality nothing new your saying nothing can exist if it doesnt exist everyone knows that concepts dont hold any power except what they are made to do

Abrahim says:

yes its obvious

says:

yeah

Abrahim says:

but when I say something so clear and obvious some people are like WOAH!@ lol they hadnt thought it like that hadnt been using their minds lol or they had I just mean lol

says:

well its notthing new that that happens either lol after all they also say whoa , about the bearded man in clouds and about bush's marvelous ideas lol

Abrahim says:

lol well some athiests also go Woah as they have a no way of describing the obvious and gives them a "God" of some kind, not a bearded man which they had initially denied, and for those who believe in bearded men in the clouds, they are told by this bearded man what God is and are like WOAH! THATS WHAT GOD IS? lol but really, the dispute of religions should be about the Afterlife not about God or Gods, im trying to, to some degree eliminate one dispute and place it with the obvious, and instead focus the battle on the Afterlife. which actually is something unproveable.

says:

oh well, as always........gob is unaffected......

Abrahim says:

lol

says:

but keep on theorizing, i'm waiting what it will evolve to

Abrahim says:

yeah me neither

says:

neither?

says:

hmmm strange answer me too........that i would have understood or yeah i dont

Abrahim says:

lol I laffed "me neither" lol hahahaha

(As a Recap: My belief as stated above is that God is Ultimate Reality, all that exists, all that we can think or do or see, whatever we can experience is a part of this Reality which is within Ultimate Reality, it is the Only God, the One, we are all made of it, completely dependant on it.

The Arguments against this are the following:

Solipsism: I am the Only Reality and the only thing verifiable, you're all just my imagination!

Answer: Your imagination or the ability for you to think, and the limited options of what you can possibly think are all within the bounds of Reality, deny it or accept it, you are dependant on it completely.

The only thing religions should argue about is what happens after we die, though it is something unproveable and in the future for us all. This is when one requires faith. Not even an athiest can know what happens. The options are many, but here are some of the most common:

The following are dependant on the unproveable assumption that ones body is inhabited by a spirit being who is responsible for our thoughts and actions:

Reincarnation: Your Spirit Being Transmigrates into something new.

Heaven and Hell: Your Spirit Being tranfers to the realm of either Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory, or any realm such as the "spirit world" "underworld" or any other thing.

The next might be based on the assumption that our ability to experience is based on our body, mind and senses. The soul being only life force, the same as that in any living thing:

Death: You die and the movie ends, you cease to experience anything at all, it is like dreamless sleep.

Ressurection: After death your body is recreated and you are ressurected in full form, often coupled with facing judgement for all that you have done in life, then experiencing literal physical punishment or reward in a literal physical paradise or hell on Earth or a planet.)

beaver
2006-05-28, 14:18
GOD IS MY CAT!!!!!!

bow down to my cat, for she can breakdance!

MEOW!!!!

Viraljimmy
2006-05-28, 21:35
god is my nut sack.

He likes to rub on my leg.

Florida Snow
2006-05-28, 22:45
god is realization, god is existence, god is what everything is not, forever.

Florida Snow
2006-05-28, 22:48
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

This post is called "WHAT IS GOD?". It is primarilly designed for people's opinions on what God is. For those who believe in God, they can mention what God they specifically believe in and what are its qualities and aspects. For those who do not believe,they can attempt to describe their concept of God, what God would be if God existed, or what the "real" God of things is, such as money etc etc. This can also be used as a forum to ask questions as to the nature of God, if God exists, and more.

In my belief, God is the Reality in which we all exist within, what everything is made of and sustained by.

Any Other Questions or Comments?





So by your standards, What happens when one leaves reality? He leaves god? Goes to Hell? Heaven? Becomes God? When one leaves this reality, deceased or not, they have died.

Abrahim
2006-05-29, 01:07
When a person dies their energy is converted into the mass and all that. But yeah, I dont believe in ghosts so I do say the person is dead. Our body is mind is what we experience through, I dont believe the "soul" is a being but only life energy that supplies all living things. When a person dies, the life energy goes away or rejoins to the mass of energy and the body is done so there is no more experiencing.

Then the matter of Faith is in "The Ressurection"

Abrahim
2006-05-29, 10:54
Any other questions or comments?

Abrahim
2006-06-01, 04:39
What do you consider the ultimate power in life? What are you dependant on?

Fundokiller
2006-06-03, 05:54
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

What do you consider the ultimate power in life? What are you dependant on?

The ultimate power is hydrogen, I'm dependant on oxygen, carbon and hydrogen. Long live hydrogen

Abrahim
2006-06-03, 09:35
quote:Originally posted by Fundokiller:

The ultimate power is hydrogen, I'm dependant on oxygen, carbon and hydrogen. Long live hydrogen

And what is it Hydrogen exists within?

Abrahim
2006-06-03, 22:24
Well before you kill this beast, let me tell you one thing: There is no being in the image of man nor any being that created every thing. There is no Diety or God save one, One so obvious that it remains a mystery to most.

People look for a God in the sky, in the Earth, some kind of Image to place faith in, an idea. Yet every single day they meet the only True God, and they deem themselves self sufficient of it, yet they are completely dependant on it.

They want some God that is within the universe that floats around on a magical cloud and controls the universe with a chessboard. They can find that in their minds. Yet that is not The True God I speak of. Any of you can guess what this True God is, the Only God, one that completely has you under its controls through its limitations on you. You can not even think a single thought unless that thought is an available option to you, or do anything without it. You live with it, sleep with it, and interact with it in waking and in sleep. What is it?

God is not some man in the sky, nor will ever be, nor will any thing you can see that you do not already see be your God.

Your God is one God, what we are all made of, exist within, and are completely dependant on.

God is Reality. The Ultimate Reality. The Reality we exist within, interact with, are made of, where all possible perceptions of all possible things can occur, if the option for the thought is not available, you can't think it. The System is smooth, flawless, perfect, without Glitches.

People question the "control" of God without seeing how in fact they are completely limited and dependant on Reality. They look for something within Reality, when Reality itself is The Only God.

I don't only mean objective physical reality, I mean the subjective reality too, what we can think, a superimposed hallucinatory image, what matter is it made of? The actual image is not made of any matter, yet it is still an option within this Reality, or else you wouldn't be able to think it.

God is The Reality, there is no God but this. People say they will believe when they see some large being come down from the sky? Yet any large being that may come down from the sky is within reality, made of reality, limited by reality, thus Reality remains the True and Ultimate God.

The Ultimate Reality is where we exist, where this universe is, essentially it is the only thing, that ever was or will be.

Nothing does not exist, what I mean to say as, True, Absolute Nothing, does not exist, as something (this) can not come from Nothing. Nothing always remains as Nothing, it has no capability to manifest.

On the other hand, Ultimate Reality has always existed, there is nothing beyond it, it is all there is and ever was, it is the manifestor of all possibilities, all realities, including this one.

It is "alive" if it were dead, inactive, then so too would we be non active, incapable, non existant, All things are in motion constantly.

God is The Reality, all things are part of the Reality, made up of the Reality, dependant on the Reality. You can call it anything, from God, Allah, The Tao, The Force, The Brahman, its one thing, all of the above were words to describe it but some ended up humanizing it. It is not a human, it has no form, it is infinite, it has no limits, it is the only power, the ultimate power.

Why would one deny evolution and the processes of this universe? They are made manifest and clear. But to deny Reality would be the mistake, and Reality is the only God, the Ultimate God. The sustainer of Worlds, the Supreme "King", The Provider of all things.

Prove to me Reality does not exist? You can't without blatant denial of yourself and all that is within and without you. Reality is God, the Only God. We are all within it, and Nothing is without it.

Originally posted by truckfixr:

I can agree with you up to a point. Reality exists. Beyond that, you are stretching things a bit.

Reality is not a sentient being, thus it honestly cannot qualify as being a God. You're calling it so is based on your opinion/belief. Not on emperical evidence.

I'm not saying it is sentient in the way we are sentient:

Here is the definition from www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com)

sen·tient ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snshnt, -sh-nt)

adj.

Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).

Experiencing sensation or feeling.

____________________________________________

Everything is made of Reality, including our feelings, and our ability to be sentient. Everything is within Reality, everything is in constant motion. Reality is not "dead" or else that would mean it would be nothing and not exist at all, nor would any thing manifest, exist, or manipulate, or even have a plain on which to exist, nor would or could anything manifest, appear or even move.

Reality is "Alive"

a·live ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-lv)

adj.

Having life; living. See Synonyms at living.

In existence or operation; active: keep your hopes alive.

Full of living or moving things; abounding: a pool alive with trout.

Full of activity or animation; lively: a face alive with mischief.

Main Entry: alive

Pronunciation: &-'lIv

Function: adjective

: having life : not dead or inanimate

Clearly Reality is Animate, we and everything is proof of this.

Ultimate Reality is "Aware" of all things existing within it, the proof of this is in the manifestation of all the available possibilities for us and our ability to execute them, furthermore our personal Awareness being proof of "Reality posessing Awareness". Besides all that, if Reality were not "Aware" those things it is "Unaware" of would not exist.

Aware

adj 1: (sometimes followed by `of') having or showing realization

We and everything around us are the Realization of Reality.

re·al·i·za·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-l-zshn)

n.

The act of realizing or the condition of being realized.

The result of realizing.

Manifestation:

man·i·fes·ta·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-f-stshn)

n.

The act of manifesting.

The state of being manifested.

An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something: A high fever is an early manifestation of the disease.

man·i·fes·ta·tion (mn-f-stshn)

n.

An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something...

Main Entry: man·i·fes·ta·tion

Pronunciation: "man-&-f&-'stA-sh&n, -"fes-

Function: noun

: a perceptible, outward, or visible expression

There is your "Creation" The Manifestation of this Reality which is within Ultimate Reality, which is the Manifestor. To call it the "Manifestor" is not innacurate as clearly, we are manifest and here to prove it.

The funny thing is "We are witnesses unto ourselves" what I mean to say is "we are the proof against ourselves" So is everything else!

So to Recap, We and All that is, ever will be, ever was, ever can or will be, in this or any other reality, belongs within Ultimate Reality. Ultimate Reality is what we are "Manifest" within. There is no Diety or God greater or mightier than this, and it is not a humanoid or anything of the sort, nor does it operate or think like us, it is infinite, the proof of its life is in the movement of all things, the proof of its awareness is in our being manifest. If it did not "know" we would be "dead" or inactive in it. know ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n)

v. knew, (n, ny) known, (nn) know·ing, knows

v. tr.

To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.

To regard as true beyond doubt: I know she won't fail.

To have a practical understanding of, as through experience; be skilled in: knows how to cook.

dead ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dd)

adj. dead·er, dead·est

No longer in existence, use, or operation.

We are the proof amazingly, yet we look everywhere for something that doesn't exist, when "God" is right infront of us, we are operating through it. We are sufficient proof of it. The Ultimate Reality, we are within it, it is without us, self sufficient, be it that we exist or not, it is ever living, before and after. Call it what satisfies you, it is one undeniable thing, to deny it is to Deny the Truth, Yourselves, The Reality which you exist within.

ex·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zst)

intr.v. ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists

To have actual being; be real.

It is one God that has appeared throughout history, constantly mutated by the minds of men which belong to it completely, for their form to the possible thoughts they can possibly think. Even the most ancient hunter gatherer societies have this most ancient concept ingrained into their personal religions, even so, athiests deny it due to their definitions of God which they base of the corruptions of humans. God is and has always been "The Ultimate Reality" Never has "God" been a man in the sky, some being with a form, or anything possible within Ultimate Reality because it, itself is Ultimate Reality and all things are within it, not without it.

Its been called many things, though it is one thing, and so too are we, who all belong in it and exist only within it and because of it, are one with it, yet we deem ourselves self sufficient, we are completely dependant. We are under its controls by its limitations. It is beneficent in its gamut of options which it has bestowed us, to do what we wish, and all things having their cause and effect.

People claim that this world is IMPERFECT, do they see glitches? Does your computer screen suddenly dissapear forever with no explanation right before your eyes? The System is Perfect, This Reality is Perfect, Ultimate Reality is Perfect, if it is incapable of one thing it is Imperfection, as Imperfection is Nothing, it can not manifest.

All Religions are an attempt to explain this truth in a way people can understand. Many get close. Christianity tries in its own way but its humanizations mislead.

The first beliefs understood this, it was understood all was a part of Reality, then each part, to explain the phenomena was accounted a spirit of action, originally accepted as part of the One, but later misrepresented through alagory and explanation as its own part, and all beliefs have this core, as does human existence, since it is undeniable.

Each Religion from the most ancient to the new says it in their own Way and tries to make the message clear. It is one Message. There is only One Religion.

The only dispute and matter of "Faith" should be in an afterlife or ressurection.

But even so, that concept is there, once again reflecting ultimate Truth, that to everything there is a Cycle, even so to this universe, it expands and will collapse and restart. The Night and the Day and the Night and the Day. The land grows dry and dead and then rains bring out the life again. A million metaphors to represent the ultimate cycles within Reality.

Please read the above post if you havent!

Reality is obviously not aware in the way we are but Reality is aware, the fact that we exist being that awareness manifest. If not we would not exist, but true that to us sounds humanization, but I don't mean it that way AT ALL.

en·ti·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-t)

n. pl. en·ti·ties

Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit: Persons and corporations are equivalent entities under the law.

The fact of existence; being.

The existence of something considered apart from its properties.

If anything, in that case, Reality would be the only Entity, what we all exist within, what only exists, what we are all made of. That would only be according to definition 2 of the word. In any case, everything is within and part of one thing, and that is Reality, it is infinite, essentially it is all there is.

in·fi·nite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nf-nt)

adj.

Having no boundaries or limits.

Immeasurably great or large; boundless: infinite patience; a discovery of infinite importance.

Mathematics.

Existing beyond or being greater than any arbitrarily large value.

Unlimited in spatial extent: a line of infinite length.

Of or relating to a set capable of being put into one-to-one correspondence with a proper subset of itself.

I thought it was relevant since the word Manifestation was used, Creationists can simply say that the Bible uses metaphor to teach in the case of the story of our creation. Then they can take science as the fact, the story as the metaphor representing the science. I don't know why they would defend something untrue when they can just as easy take it as metaphor.

I'd LOVE to talk to you on an IM program! Which one do you use? I am MSN, AIM, and Yahoo. Which do you use? How can I add you?

Yeah I didn't understand what the phycedelics was reffering to:

did you mean:

psy·che·del·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sk-dlk)

adj.

Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis.

Hope to see you soon on one of the IM's I'll add you, or you could add me at [email protected] , abrahimesker , or [email protected]

Originally posted by truckfixr:

We are aware. Reality is not.

Consider this. If all life in the universe were to cease to exist, any and all awareness would also cease to exist. Reality would remain. There would simply be no one to observe.

If we are Aware, Reality "posesses" Awareness. If it did not, we would not be Aware. Its language trickery maybe, but its literal too.

You are right about the second part, Reality would remain.

Most of what happened yesterday is unknown and unremembered, unverifiable, unproveable.

Were we created?

Were we manifested?

Were we molded by evolution?

Why can't people understand whatever the case, they are all the same, and the proof is that we are here.

We are manifestations, manifested within Reality and this Universe, and molded/created by evolution, a process which was originally manifested as a possibility within Reality and this Universe. The argument goes into semantics, language, and philosophy. There is only One God worthy of Worship, Understanding, Submission. There is no Being within this Universe or outside it worthy of worship save the one thing.

The one thing has been described in a billion ways over history by different people, and it is always an attempt to explain the one thing which EVERYONE knows willingly or unwillingly. There is no Elephant, Bearded man, Spirit Being, or any other explanation of the One thing.

The One Thing is not seperate from anything, or any of us, we are within it, a part of it, manifested by it, within it, and are completely dependant on it.

Some call it "What is Real" some give it other images and forms, thus limiting it in peoples minds and ruining the original concept.

Hinduism, Taoism, Islam, they all talk about the one thing and describe it in various fashions. Even Zoroastrianism, even Athiests can't deny the One Thing, they all call it by different names, it has no name save a name we give it.

Even the oldest religions, the most ancient hunter gatherer beliefs try to describe this one thing and mention it in their various fashions.

I call it "Reality" what encompasses all of us, objective, subjective.

Hindu's call it brahma (nominative singular), brahman (stem) (neuter[1] gender) means the concept of the Supreme transcendent and immanent Reality or the One Godhead or Cosmic Spirit in Hinduism; this is discussed below.

The Vedas depict Brahman as the Ultimate Reality, the Absolute or Universal Soul (Paramātman) [6]. It is the ultimate principle who is without a beginning, without an end, who is hidden in all and who is the cause, source, material and effect of all creation known, unknown and yet to happen in the entire universe.

Bhuddists include this belief as well as other religions that have sprung from Hinduism.

"Ishvara (ईश्वर in devanagari script, pronunciation /ī:sh vərə/), also variously transliterated (romanized) as Īshvara, Īshwara, Īshwar, Īśvara, etc. (Sanskrit: "the Supreme Lord, and hence the Cosmic Controller") is a Hindu philosophical concept of God meaning that entity or the Supreme Being which is the lord and the ruler of everything. It is also used in Buddhism to mean 'lord' or 'master', eg, Avalokiteshvara."

The same goes for "The Tao" in Taoism.

The same with "Allah" in Islam, it is a description of Ultimate Reality.

Everyone from the beginning of our attempts to explain things, have been attempting to explain one thing, which we exist within, interact with, are controlled by, has an infinite potential of aspects (manifestations) but is One, call it what you want, Reality, Tao, The Brahman, Allah, God. It is one thing, and it is One. Nothing is outside of Reality, it is infinite and all encompassing, the most powerful thing. No big man in the sky, beast, or alien creature is worthy of Worship, the most powerful thing is this Reality. It is one Religion, it has always been one Religion, people have tried to describe one thing over and over and people tend to misunderstand it over and over again: They seek what can only exist within their minds, and EVEN THAT is within the bounds of the One Reality, The Ultimate Reality.

"Pantheism (Greek: pan = all and Theos = God) literally means "God is All" and "All is God". It is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent God

Debate

Some critics argue that pantheism is little more than a redefinition of the word "God" to mean "existence", "life" or "reality". Many pantheists reply that even if this is so, such a shift in the way we think about these ideas can serve to create both a new and a potentially far more insightful conception of both existence and God."

This forum is for religious debate, it has a name that is very cute: My God can beat the Shit out of Your God, while both are attempts to describe one singular thing.

The other point people can debate on is the afterlife, something which no one has proof or knowledge about or for, what we know is now, and we should use it to the best of our advantage.

Understand: New and Old, attempts have been repeatedly made to describe one thing, there is nothing else we know but Reality, it was what we live in and are made of and are completely dependant on.

The Qur'an says it, Hinduism says it at its core, and Taoism said it too.

It has no name so call it what you want, it is one thing and it is undeniable.

There is no Diety or God but the Reality we exist within. There is no man sitting in the sky waiting for you, there is no man who is God, there is One Ultimate Reality, all that is within it is a part of it equally.

You are all manifestations within Ultimate Reality, this is obvious because here we are, debating what is obvious.

Nothing can threaten the True Religion, and it is one, and nothing can destroy it either because it is True. You can attempt to deny the undeniable, but it is futile because even to deny it you utilize it to do so and are completely dependant. The best you can do for yourself is to humble yourself to it, submit to it, attempt to become one with it, at peace with it, do right: Islam, Taoism, Hinduism, Bhuddism all suggest the same thing. Judaism and Christianity also attempt to describe the path of becoming at peace with Reality.

Do what you know is right, and good for you, good for others, you know it, I know it, we may do it differently. What is wrong is bad for us and others, what is right is good for us, and good for others. Use common sense.

Being human and living in Reality is an automatic religion, you breath, you walk, you talk, you fight, you write, you laugh you cry, you argue about one thing with different names.

All Polytheistic Religions from the past were originally an attempt to describe what is known, and what is unknown. To describe Reality which is one, they gave it aspects, which became known as spirits or Gods, which controlled each aspect, but are all part of the "Creator" or "King" or the "Master" God which is Reality, and all were manifestations of it.

The One Truth, Reality exists, internal or external, we are all here and manifested by it, dependant on it completely.

truckfixr
2006-06-03, 22:40
We understood your concept that God=Reality within the first 20 or so times you posted it (in this and almost every thread in this forum).You've run it into the ground already.

If no one wants to add to your thread, let it die. Quit bumping your own threads. Give it a rest already. Damn Troll.

Abrahim
2006-06-03, 23:12
quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:

We understood your concept that God=Reality within the first 20 or so times you posted it (in this and almost every thread in this forum).You've run it into the ground already.

If no one wants to add to your thread, let it die. Quit bumping your own threads. Give it a rest already. Damn Troll.

I hope your big brother is larger and tastier!

But really I wanted to put it in here because it was relevant and just so I can link people to it instead of linking them to the middle of Civil Liberties where the above was originally located.

Snoopy 2
2006-06-06, 13:12
God is somthing that resides in your imagination.

Abrahim
2006-06-07, 00:36
quote:Originally posted by Snoopy 2:

God is somthing that resides in your imagination.

Does everything you see and experience in the entire world and universe reside in your imagination? In what does your imagination reside? Your mind? In what does your mind reside? Your body? In what does your body reside? The world? In what does the world reside? The universe? In what does the universe reside? Reality. God is the Ultimate Reality, there is no other "God". Everything is made of it, manifested within it, existing only because of it, you are completely dependant.

Viraljimmy
2006-06-07, 23:18
Does reality have a personality? Does reality love you, or judge you, or make bushes talk to you? Does the highest order of the universe fight rebellious parts of itself? That's the "god" that people don't believe in.

Yes, probably there is more to reality than what we understand, but from what we do know, it seems like the unknown is "something" not "someone". That's the difference.

It doesn't really mean anything to say "reality is god". Reality doesn't need magic tricks and preachers to make people believe in it. The universe doesn't care what you think.

Navicalist
2006-06-07, 23:49
You're agnostic.

Actually I'll just tell what you are.

You're a religiously-confused fella who actually has the heart to express his thoughts. You're naive, immature, however driven and have a potential to be free. I don't think you're even agnostic yet.

[This message has been edited by Navicalist (edited 06-07-2006).]

Navicalist
2006-06-07, 23:54
Thought I'd add this while I was at it.

Your dream is not reality.

potyhead123
2006-06-07, 23:57

potyhead123
2006-06-07, 23:58
Great stuff

Satans Handicaped Helper
2006-06-08, 00:18
start a cult http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

AngryFemme
2006-06-08, 00:31
quote:Originally posted by Navicalist:

You're agnostic.

Actually I'll just tell what you are.



No.

He is a Pantheist, living under the principles of Islam, entertwining the two whenever it suits a particular debate.

Like most practitioners of religious faith, he probably feels as though he is really redeeming himself in the eyes of God by attempting to convert the masses into his way of thinking. SURELY that is extra heaven-points that will pay off in the afterlife!

Nitpicking his ideologies should therefore be left to the Christians! Then it can become a non-zero-sum game where both sides get to benefit from all the reactionary drivel of pumping up their Gods, while each lose a bit of credibility when they realize they are basically comparing apples to oranges. They both reap, and they both lose in the end.

The Unbelievers can always just sit on the sidelines, willing to offer up a slice of logical reason whenever it is needed to clear things up.

truckfixr
2006-06-08, 00:59
This "Reality" God seems to me to be just a spin on Spinoza's God. Nothing really new or profound.

AngryFemme
2006-06-08, 01:25
Except Spinoza's God is the natural world and has no personality, and Abrahim's God lends judgement, resurrection, and an afterlife.

Navicalist
2006-06-08, 01:51
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

No.

He is a Pantheist, living under the principles of Islam, entertwining the two whenever it suits a particular debate.

Like most practitioners of religious faith, he probably feels as though he is really redeeming himself in the eyes of God by attempting to convert the masses into his way of thinking. SURELY that is extra heaven-points that will pay off in the afterlife!

Nitpicking his ideologies should therefore be left to the Christians! Then it can become a non-zero-sum game where both sides get to benefit from all the reactionary drivel of pumping up their Gods, while each lose a bit of credibility when they realize they are basically comparing apples to oranges. They both reap, and they both lose in the end.

The Unbelievers can always just sit on the sidelines, willing to offer up a slice of logical reason whenever it is needed to clear things up.



I wish you read till the end. Sorry, being corrected bothers me if it wasn't really my fault.

Abrahim
2006-06-08, 11:20
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Except Spinoza's God is the natural world and has no personality, and Abrahim's God lends judgement, resurrection, and an afterlife.



Perhaps the judgement isnt the kind of humanistic judgement we think of in reference to the word judgement? Ressurection because all things are in cycles. My idea is NOT unique, its extremely ancient, before spinoza, many religions have it including Islam and Hinduism, even prior the most ancient hunter gatherer religions start with this core basic understanding. The truth is, we are the judges in this life and should do what is best for us and what benefits us, to do what is better than worse.

I don't believe God has a personality like humans but that humans in order to understand and comprehend attempt to see God as a reflection of themselves and thus attribute humanistic attributes.

I believe it is positive and therapeutic to believe in an afterlife despite if it exists or not, to give a meaning, purpose, and direction to life and encourage doing right and good with extra rewards even if one feels unrewarded in this life.

Real.PUA
2006-06-08, 13:11
And yet you also happen to believe that the koran is divinely inspired and contains "scientific miracles."

Abrahim
2006-06-09, 04:50
quote:Originally posted by Real.PUA:

And yet you also happen to believe that the koran is divinely inspired and contains "scientific miracles."

Theres something up there in one of the long convos about "inspiration"

Also AngryFemme has got it right but I also find that I'm living under the principles of other religions in their original forms too.

[This message has been edited by Abrahim (edited 06-09-2006).]

Junyi
2006-06-09, 05:43
I believe God is all, and at the same time better then everything. For example, think of Gaia theory, that the planet Earth, in it's mix of every living and not living things, is a living thing itself. So the mix of everything in the universe is God, which is a "living" thing. He is the creator because we are part of him, that himself created.

Also, don't think of the God of the Bible, because the Bible was written by humans so, to me at least, it is just a story made to try to make people believe in the Christian Church, in my opinion just a human made organization for more political then religious issues.

We have sort of a paradox here, He created himself. BUT He is God, a being of higher counsiousnes, of higher understanding, a higher dimension, so this paradox do not exist for him. Too weird?

We as humans are not capable of understanding this paradox, and also it is simply arrogance to say everything can be explained through humans' studies. Think of the dimensional theorys, where a "being" of the second dimension can move up, down, back and forth, but can't go left nor right. This "being" can't even imagine things in a third dimensional way, so the maximum he can explain is up to the things in the second dimension.

So, we are in the third dimension, and if I remember correctly there are 7+ dimensions, acording to mathematical researches, so, really, there is no way we can "measure" God, because he's higher up and humans are stuck to third dimensional thinking and theory.

But I also believe we are constantly evolving, as beings. I believe this where we are is "hell". When we die, I believe the soul "rests" at the fourth dimension and comes back in another body, until we can finally move on and evolve to "heaven", or the fifth dimension. Also don't think of the Christian views of hell and heaven.

Could you understand, err... something? Anyway, this is just my opinion, feel free to ask anything.

Abrahim
2006-06-09, 07:52
quote:Originally posted by Junyi:

I believe God is all, and at the same time better then everything. For example, think of Gaia theory, that the planet Earth, in it's mix of every living and not living things, is a living thing itself. So the mix of everything in the universe is God, which is a "living" thing. He is the creator because we are part of him, that himself created.

Also, don't think of the God of the Bible, because the Bible was written by humans so, to me at least, it is just a story made to try to make people believe in the Christian Church, in my opinion just a human made organization for more political then religious issues.

We have sort of a paradox here, He created himself. BUT He is God, a being of higher counsiousnes, of higher understanding, a higher dimension, so this paradox do not exist for him. Too weird?

We as humans are not capable of understanding this paradox, and also it is simply arrogance to say everything can be explained through humans' studies. Think of the dimensional theorys, where a "being" of the second dimension can move up, down, back and forth, but can't go left nor right. This "being" can't even imagine things in a third dimensional way, so the maximum he can explain is up to the things in the second dimension.

So, we are in the third dimension, and if I remember correctly there are 7+ dimensions, acording to mathematical researches, so, really, there is no way we can "measure" God, because he's higher up and humans are stuck to third dimensional thinking and theory.

But I also believe we are constantly evolving, as beings. I believe this where we are is "hell". When we die, I believe the soul "rests" at the fourth dimension and comes back in another body, until we can finally move on and evolve to "heaven", or the fifth dimension. Also don't think of the Christian views of hell and heaven.

Could you understand, err... something? Anyway, this is just my opinion, feel free to ask anything.

Junyi, I'd like to have you on my MSN, AIM, and Yahoo lists please. How may I add you?

[email protected]

abrahimesker

[email protected]

I'd really appreciate you adding me or your email or username for one of those so I may add you! Thank You!

Abrahim
2006-07-04, 12:16
Originally when I made this post I expected various people to come in and give different Gods and try to prove them, I didn't know the majority of people on here, though disbelievers in any diety, still had set up in their mind a false illusionary idol which they despised though they defend it violently and hold to it when other Gods greater are brought to face it.

Holy Shit
2006-07-04, 17:29
Math is exact, language isn't. You cannot justify your logic with dictionary definitions. The universe is indeed imperfect. A black hole is the easiest proof of it. Reality has limits, when my mind doesn't. Therefore, my mind > universe. Therefore, my imagination > your god. Since in your belief, nothing can be greater than god, he must not exist, because my mind has no limits.

potentgirt
2006-07-04, 17:35
but his "god" is responsible for all of your thoughts and stuff....

lol

http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/005624.html

read that

Abrahim
2006-07-05, 04:32
I don't know how a black hole = "imperfection" as it can not exist if it were not part of the system which is perfect.

Holy Shit
2006-07-05, 06:03
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I don't know how a black hole = "imperfection" as it can not exist if it were not part of the system which is perfect.

It's a hole in the universe that nothing can escape. Whatever enters a black hole is destroyed and becomes part of the singularity in the center. Therefore, something has to dissapear since the singularity has no mass even when something enters it. If the system is perfect, no part of it can simply dissapear, if something does, it is no longer whole, therefore imperfect.

Holy Shit
2006-07-05, 16:41
^^

Abrahim
2006-07-05, 16:47
quote:Originally posted by Holy Shit:

It's a hole in the universe that nothing can escape. Whatever enters a black hole is destroyed and becomes part of the singularity in the center. Therefore, something has to dissapear since the singularity has no mass even when something enters it. If the system is perfect, no part of it can simply dissapear, if something does, it is no longer whole, therefore imperfect.

I really don't see how something that sucks things and doesn't let them return makes the system imperfect...

Holy Shit
2006-07-05, 16:51
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I really don't see how something that sucks things and doesn't let them return makes the system imperfect...

How can the perfect system still be perfect after a piece of it is completely destroyed? It's gone. Forever. For something to be perfect, everything has to be functioning. If a part of a whole perfect universe is destroyed, the universe is no longer perfect for it is no longer whole....

Abrahim
2006-07-05, 16:55
quote:Originally posted by Holy Shit:

How can the perfect system still be perfect after a piece of it is completely destroyed? It's gone. Forever. For something to be perfect, everything has to be functioning. If a part of a whole perfect universe is destroyed, the universe is no longer perfect for it is no longer whole....

But isn't everything functioning? Is everything that existed before existing now, or do things change while the system is still perfect, is the removal and dissapearance of something not a change? Is not change encompassed by the perfection of the system? If there are black holes, and black holes are part of the system, I don't see how they are imperfect for their function.

Graemy
2006-07-05, 16:56
part of creation is destruction just like death is a part of life humans are perfect because of their flaws

Holy Shit
2006-07-05, 17:02
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Is not change encompassed by the perfection of the system?

No. Why would a perfect system change if it is perfect?

A system cannot improve if it is perfect.

Abrahim
2006-07-05, 17:05
quote:Originally posted by Holy Shit:

No. Why would a perfect system change if it is perfect?

A system cannot improve if it is perfect.

I think it depends on your definition of perfection, several perfect steps can't be part of a perfect staircase?

Holy Shit
2006-07-05, 17:14
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I think it depends on your definition of perfection, several perfect steps can't be part of a perfect staircase?

I suppose it does. My definition of perfect is more like a circle. By my definition, a staircase cannot be "perfect" since it has a begining and an end. I realize that your what your definition of perfect is now. I guess this difference is what seperates our minds. I recognize that you are an intelligent individual, and I am not here to challenge your beliefs. Ya, well, I'm out for a couple hours, will continue breaking down reality later.

Abrahim
2006-07-26, 02:57
quote:Originally posted by Holy Shit:

I suppose it does. My definition of perfect is more like a circle. By my definition, a staircase cannot be "perfect" since it has a begining and an end. I realize that your what your definition of perfect is now. I guess this difference is what seperates our minds. I recognize that you are an intelligent individual, and I am not here to challenge your beliefs. Ya, well, I'm out for a couple hours, will continue breaking down reality later.

Alrighty!

Abrahim
2006-07-28, 23:45
Any Other Comments or Questions?

Aft3r ImaGe
2006-07-29, 05:03
For someone asking a question your very close minded. You ask what is god then say he can't be these things. Who are you to say what god is or isn't, probibility wise all the different religions have an equal chance of being true. There are 100s of religions and 100s of interpretations of those religions.

Odds are we are not alone physically (see drake equation) or spiritually (OBEs, Drug enduced experiances, mental deseases where people are otherwise sane but see things [normally elves], ghosts, telepathic ability [more specifically remote viewing which has been proven as far as science can prove in this situation, true] and many other facters [really could just keep going on, interesting book to read on this subject is Sex, 'Drugs, Einstein, and Elves', it is unbias, lets the reader interpret the data, mind opening, and talks about a lot of weird things, everything from phycological time perception, hypnotism, proust, art, phycedelics, computer programs which try to say the forbidden to say outside of temple according to jewish religion 'true' 4 letter name of god, the sleeper fish, sushi, genetic engineering, Albert Einstein, and so much more... VERY recommended for people interested in any of the above things, and/or for anyone with an open mind] which further research would show), what this means to you, AKA the interpretation of those odds, determines your religion, and wether or not you have one, or even make your belief system. Also remember thinking about the big picture tends to shatter most belief systems. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Also I would like to add your knowledge of black holes is flawed, first of all matter never simply dissapears, law of conservation of mass, remember? As to what happens next steven hawkings has suggested that the various things on where the matter goes, and there have been countless explanations by other scientists. More interesting still is black holes effects on time are porpotional to space, meaning the closer you get to the event horizon, the more distorted time gets. A common misconception is time moves at the same rate throughout the universe, which is untrue, any amount of gravity has an effect on spacetime. I'm drastically rambling now, but if you Abrahim can than so can I right?

So if I have a question, it is how do you know you are right in your theory? (which last time I checked contradicted it's self, a clear proof it is wrong)

Edit: Bolded the main points in the 2nd paragraph to show the points in order to prevent people from getting lost in detail. Please note by skipping the detail, you skip the proof, I just highlighted the main point.



[This message has been edited by Aft3r ImaGe (edited 07-29-2006).]

Abrahim
2006-07-29, 11:34
Are you sure you're talking to me?

I never said much about black holes, that was someone else talking about black holes, I was talking based on the information they provided me.

Who am I to state what GOD is or ISN'T? If someone states God is a toilet, I'll say YES, but only a PART, it is not the whole! Because I believe God is the all encompassing ultimate reality which we are made of and which this reality and this universe exist within. That a toilet is not the greatest thing, nor is any single image or being that can appear within a reality, but what encompasses all those realities and things and images, The Ultimate and True, Infinite, Single God.

Aft3r ImaGe
2006-07-29, 16:02
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Are you sure you're talking to me?

I never said much about black holes, that was someone else talking about black holes, I was talking based on the information they provided me.

Who am I to state what GOD is or ISN'T? If someone states God is a toilet, I'll say YES, but only a PART, it is not the whole! Because I believe God is the all encompassing ultimate reality which we are made of and which this reality and this universe exist within. That a toilet is not the greatest thing, nor is any single image or being that can appear within a reality, but what encompasses all those realities and things and images, The Ultimate and True, Infinite, Single God.

The black hole discussion was the only part of that was meant for someone else. Everything else was talking to you.

quote:Adam Kirsch: If space is the 5th dimension what are the 6th or 7th?

Dr Michio Kaku: If the fifth dimension vibrates, then ripples on the fifth dimension are visible as light. If the other dimensions vibrate, then the ripples are seen as the nuclear force, so the forces of the universe can be viewed as ripples in hyper-space

You are defining god as the universe, and since you can only perceive the universe outside of earth as light from space, which according to string theory is ripples in spacetime, you are in effect worshiping the fabric of spacetime and it's ripples.

You have really over thought this one and suspended logic.

For one thing if god has concousness then you are stating your toilet has concousness. If god does not have concousness then there is no point in worshiping or trying to communicate with god.

Also at the smallest quantum level, spacetime is unstable, constantly moving, with rips, moving mountains, and valleys. This would mean your god is constantly being torn apart, reshaped, and torn apart in a random chaotic manner.

And what about other universes existing in hyper space? If god is our universe then is each universe a separate god? Then there would be more than one.

And you did claim you knew what god is or isn't.

quote:Originally posted by Abriham:

There is no being in the image of man nor any being that created every thing. There is no Diety or God save one, One so obvious that it remains a mystery to most.

So answer my questions, how do you know your right?

Is there even any point to your beliefs if your right?

And wasn't there a thread proving you were wrong and you have contradicting ideas?

[This message has been edited by Aft3r ImaGe (edited 07-29-2006).]

Abrahim
2006-07-29, 21:36
quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

So answer my questions, how do you know your right?

Is there even any point to your beliefs if your right?

And wasn't there a thread proving you were wrong and you have contradicting ideas?



I apologize on your behalf, to me, for not reading my posts. I don't believe God is the Universe, I'm not sure why you think that is what I believe, I don't recall saying that, but I have tons of posts of what I believe God is all over the place, you can check out some more in "My dear, Abrahim, your theories are flawed" which is a Catholic and Atheists debating my theories and ideas, even some of them thought that I believe God was the Universe. I don't believe God is the Universe, I believe the Universe and all Universes and All Realities, and all Possibilities are made of, within, existing by, completely dependant on the all encompassing infinite one Ultimate Reality, which is God. If you read the Theories Flawed topic and the first page of this topic you might get a nice idea of what I believe God is since I repeat it often, then you can ask me more questions.

Aft3r ImaGe
2006-08-01, 00:28
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

I apologize on your behalf, to me, for not reading my posts. I don't believe God is the Universe, I'm not sure why you think that is what I believe, I don't recall saying that, but I have tons of posts of what I believe God is all over the place, you can check out some more in "My dear, Abrahim, your theories are flawed" which is a Catholic and Atheists debating my theories and ideas, even some of them thought that I believe God was the Universe. I don't believe God is the Universe, I believe the Universe and all Universes and All Realities, and all Possibilities are made of, within, existing by, completely dependant on the all encompassing infinite one Ultimate Reality, which is God. If you read the Theories Flawed topic and the first page of this topic you might get a nice idea of what I believe God is since I repeat it often, then you can ask me more questions.



I did read your posts, you decided to ass-u-me that I didn't. In order to know whether I did or didn't you would have to know the motives to my question, but since you think your smarter than you really are you decided I must have ignored your posts, which upto this point were mostly spam. You humiliated yourself further by stating I apologize on your behalf to myself, basically masturbating your ego for all to see. Believe it or not this will make people hate your more rather than change their minds. Now with that out of the way back to the actual point.

My point is there is no proof of what your saying, which is why I asked how do you know your right. I also asked if there was any point to your beliefs if your right. I expected an actual answer not a dismissal/sign of immaturity, but if thats how you choose to respond to people thats your choice, just don't expect a lot of people to take you seriously.

Abrahim
2006-08-09, 01:21
quote:Originally posted by Aft3r ImaGe:

I did read your posts, you decided to ass-u-me that I didn't. In order to know whether I did or didn't you would have to know the motives to my question, but since you think your smarter than you really are you decided I must have ignored your posts, which upto this point were mostly spam. You humiliated yourself further by stating I apologize on your behalf to myself, basically masturbating your ego for all to see. Believe it or not this will make people hate your more rather than change their minds. Now with that out of the way back to the actual point.

My point is there is no proof of what your saying, which is why I asked how do you know your right. I also asked if there was any point to your beliefs if your right. I expected an actual answer not a dismissal/sign of immaturity, but if thats how you choose to respond to people thats your choice, just don't expect a lot of people to take you seriously.

I thought it was kinda cute.

My beliefs are Philosophical, they are discussed in length in My Dear Abrahim. My ideas can not be proven true or false as one can choose to believe any number of things, all of which I would respond to as: All is Within God, Nothing is Without God. This means that all is a part of the one ultimate reality which this reality is part of. Prove it? It's just a way of thinking about something.

The benefit is a sense of one-ness with everything, a kind of humility and sense of peace with all.

Digital_Savior
2006-08-09, 09:46
How can anyone take Abrahim seriously ?

He's like a soapbox preacher that stinks of Whiskey, hanging out on 5th Avenue. *shakes head*

Abrahim
2006-08-09, 10:30
quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

How can anyone take Abrahim seriously ?

He's like a soapbox preacher that stinks of Whiskey, hanging out on 5th Avenue. *shakes head*

Wash ouf or thazzz fiya cuz ish HAWT!

Abrahim
2006-08-13, 12:55
What is your definition of what a God should be? What is God?

Jackketchs Muse
2006-08-13, 20:23
quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

How can anyone take Abrahim seriously ?

He's like a soapbox preacher that stinks of Whiskey, hanging out on 5th Avenue. *shakes head*

Seriously?

Hmmm...interesting...yes...

Some of it sounds a bit "New Agey" to me though.

edit:

Not to say that is necessarily a bad thing.

[This message has been edited by Jackketchs Muse (edited 08-13-2006).]

Abrahim
2006-08-13, 20:25
quote:Originally posted by Jackketchs Muse:

Seriously?

Hmmm...interesting...yes...

Some of it sounds a bit "New Agey" to me though.

Yeah my ideas could go into the category of New Age. In the Wiccan belief system all Gods and things are a manifestation or aspect of the One, known as The Source, that being the same God I speak of as Allah or The Brahman.

AngryFemme
2006-08-13, 23:01
quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

How can anyone take Abrahim seriously ?

He's like a soapbox preacher that stinks of Whiskey, hanging out on 5th Avenue. *shakes head*

That's kinda how I visualize you! Except you're a soapbox preacher who reeks of politics, and hangs out on Totse.

Abrahim
2006-08-13, 23:06
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

That's kinda how I visualize you! Except you're a soapbox preacher who reeks of politics, and hangs out on Totse.



What about me? How do you visualize me!

AngryFemme
2006-08-13, 23:10
I could see you preaching from upon a soapbox on 5th avenue, but you mentioned you didn't partake in alcohol, so that part just doesn't apply.

Whether or not I take you seriously is unimportant, and irrelevant.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Abrahim
2006-08-13, 23:12
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

I could see you preaching from upon a soapbox on 5th avenue, but you mentioned you didn't partake in alcohol, so that part just doesn't apply.

Whether or not I take you seriously is unimportant, and irrelevant.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Or you could've just said "as a beautiful cat like human wonder"

One_way_mirror
2006-08-15, 20:01
quote:Originally posted by Totyai:

I'm getting pretty sick of pseudo-spiritual internet dipshits who want to be big philosiphers by posting their beliefs on myspace.

Shit. people actually do that these days?

Jackketchs Muse
2006-08-15, 21:00
quote:Originally posted by Abrahim:

Or you could've just said "as a beautiful cat like human wonder"





That got a chuckle out of me... http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

jca2006
2006-08-15, 21:02
You really want to know what god is? God is my big fucking cock.

Ra-deus
2006-08-15, 21:27
God either exists or does not. It's as simple as that, and you all will probably never know the answer, so there is not much use to wondering.

Abrahim
2006-08-16, 01:15
quote:Originally posted by Ra-deus:

God either exists or does not. It's as simple as that, and you all will probably never know the answer, so there is not much use to wondering.

If God is the one who the Bible and Qur'an talk about, apparently there should be some concern because those who do not believe in him or the ressurection and do wrong, will be cast into a place of horrible torment.

AngryFemme
2006-08-17, 00:44
But what if they don't do wrong, yet they still don't believe in God or the resurrection?

Any fine grey areas in-between?

Abrahim
2006-08-17, 00:58
quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

But what if they don't do wrong, yet they still don't believe in God or the resurrection?

Any fine grey areas in-between?

There don't seem to be any grey areas but then again the final judgement is left to God.

burymeag
2006-08-20, 14:32
it would take infinite amount of pages to explain god, but he tells us not to worry about him but worry about how we can come back to him