A race of sheep?

[Special. K]

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately, and it seems to me that Humans are probably less adaptable than we would like to think.

Imagine there was an event that wiped out 95% of the population. The natural state of the earth however was relatively unharmed, with food & materials still in quite an abundance. I think you would find that upon the collapse of ordered civilisation many many people would lose the will to live, many people just wouldn't be able to cope.

The question I have is why? Because I know that personally I would adapt... I've always loved reading survivalist shit. I was talking with a friend the other day, she's pretty lazy - Like, no ambition. Really smart, could have lifted herself out of the mire of lower-middle class suburbia but instead has basically fucked around her whole life making excuses and now her outdated teaching degree doesn't count for shit.

We were having a conversation about society and exactly this topic, and she said that we acted like a race of sheep, a herd animal. How right she was, and yet she is one of the biggest culprits, always stressing over minor unimportant things, the day to days rather than the direction she is heading. Yet, she was aware of the very fact, at least to some extent.

This is the thing, as humans most of these sheep are aware of their herd mentality, their lack of concious thought but only seem to engage that part of the mind when provoked to do so.

Why is it that only a minority of us actually possess foresight - This ability to look beyond the immediate present and plan for the future, to look at the past and observe our mistakes consciously? Most importantly not to stress over micro-issues such as a window left open, but to tackle the big issues? Is this what leadership is about?

[Heinous_Anus]

I think you would find that upon the collapse of ordered civilisation many many people would lose the will to live, many people just wouldn't be able to cope.

Sure some wouldn't, and they'd die, and what would be left? The strong ones.

The question I have is why? Because I know that personally I would adapt... I've always loved reading survivalist shit.

You love reading it? Ever try doing it? I assume you live in a city and don't get outdoors much..right?

We were having a conversation about society and exactly this topic, and she said that we acted like a race of sheep, a herd animal.

True, but thats one of the reasons we survive so well, the weak follow the strong. If we didn't then it would be like what you just said, people without guidance being unable to cope.



Also, have you ever done mushrooms? If not I recommend it, they're brilliant for allowing you to take a step back and have a good hard look at humanity, and more importantly yourself.

[DeliciousPun]

Some people strive to be herded, others strive to herd. Its all about ambition and what you want from your life i guess.

[thatcoolkid]

Originally Posted by Special. K

Why is it that only a minority of us actually possess foresight - This ability to look beyond the immediate present and plan for the future, to look at the past and observe our mistakes consciously? Most importantly not to stress over micro-issues such as a window left open, but to tackle the big issues? Is this what leadership is about?

Statistics. Normal Distribution.

Also, when we invented modern technology we removed ourself from the process of natural selection.

[varactor_blue]

Someone from another site I frequent wrote this account, but I think it applies well here, and goes a long way toward answering the OP's question, I hope.

Originally Posted by Some Dude Whose Name I Can't Remember

I agree with you that technology is really the root of our problems and will not/cannot save us.

But when it comes to options, we must face a very terrible fact: *we have become 100% dependent on technology for our survival as a species in the civilized world*.

This notion that we must join together and become communities of change, or whatever is completely misguided. Unless the other members of your community can be totally self-sufficient, it is absolutely doomed to failure. The reason people want a community is to continue the scourge of specialization. It's the only way people know how to live. But this is completely unsustainable in a small low/no-input, low-energy community.

First, unless you have a LOT of very fertile land with good soil, and enough gasoline/diesel to prep it, you're done.

Second, even if you do have said land, if you don't know how to make it sustainable, you're done.

Got seeds? Got heirloom seeds? Got lucky enough to have rain at the right time? How's your back for carrying large buckets of water around?

I can speak authoritatively on this, because I am doing it right now. And it is a total backbreaking, demoralizing, low-yield, maddening affair. There are things you can do to fight these problems, but they ALL involve sucking the teat of technology and unsustainability. Unless you've done this, you have absolutely no idea what a truly post-peak world will be like. It will suck more ass than you can imagine.

If you have a community to do this work, it means less of the meager harvest goes around, because no one contributes as much to the production of calories as they take. We had 5 friends over one weekend to "help" us, and they actually set us back a day. They didn't know what anything looked like, they didn't know what to do and needed total direction. The "is this a weed?" question got asked about a million times. They were actually worse than useless.

I was a doomer before, but for all the wrong reasons. Doing this, experiencing this has shown me that basically it's impossible to do without technology. Before civilization farked everything up, there was adequate wild food around. Birds, fish, game were everywhere. People now cannot even comprehend the world that existed before civilization. It HAD to be that abundant for us to have ever made it, because if our ancestors lived in the world as it is today, they would have died. We have stripped, polluted, corrupted everything. Only the harshest, most inhospitable places are still vaguely wild.

Once your eyes really open and you see things as they are, not how you want them to be, the picture that emerges is far too terrifying to process. I understand now why people do almost anything to avoid thinking about all this. I understand why so many diversions exist. Just last night, I was working past dusk in the field, which is a huge mistake, because that's when the Cottonmouths come out. Walking the quarter mile back to the cabin, there were two in the path. Can you imagine walking out there in the blackness of night with no light? Do you have any idea how long you'd last doing that on a regular basis? Well... what do you do in the middle of the night if something, or someone is out in your field stealing your crops?

Several years ago, someone threw a stick of dynamite into one of the ponds here and killed/stole all of the fish.

Whatever you take days/weeks/months/years to build and do can be undone in an instant by someone else with technology, or even nature herself. Technology is the only "edge" we have, and it will be used in the most ruthless, devastating ways you can think of. Your chances are very low, no matter what you do.

If you are a lone wolf, you'll do fine until your technology fails you, or you meet another lone wolf.

If you're in a community, you'll do fine until your technology fails, or you meet a lone wolf.

I will continue to share as much useful information I can from this experiment, but the results are in. Even with 4 very fertile acres, without some small measures of technology, it is impossible to feed anyone more than maybe 10% of your calories. It's as simple as that. It's a net energy loser.

Just because we turn away from something unpleasant doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

I kind of got it before... but now that I am actually wearing my fingers to the bone in the soil do I really get it. It's a pity that most people cannot or will not experience this. Unfortunately, what they'd take away from the experience is not a profound desire to change our course, but instead a strong desire to be in an air conditioned room with a cold beer.

I think about using chemicals every day. When the tropical fowl mites infested the place (you have not known unpleasant until you've had these things crawl in every orifice), I went down and bought some pyrethrin. There was literally no other choice, other than abandoning the cabin, which was not an option.

When the deer start eating all the beans, I think about hunting them down and killing them.

When the Japanese beetles went after stuff, I seriously thought about using poison.

I am not perfect. Not even close. But this experience has made me a better person.

I think this guy is living the reason why so many won't/wouldn't be able to cope.

[Star Wars Fan]

Unless you've done this, you have absolutely no idea what a truly post-peak world will be like. It will suck more ass than you can imagine.

I haven't done it, but I do know if I do farming that way it will suck TREMENDOUS ass. I remember thinking over it a few weeks/months ago about the bad parts of agriculture and after the Oil Peak, if it's the worst case....