The Philosophical Musings in TDK

[DerDrache]

(This isn't actually about The Dark Knight)

So, since I'd guess most of us saw Batman yesterday/today, I'm curious what you all thought of the various philosophical things it suggested. As I saw it, you h ave this chaotic world, and the 3 main characters approach it in different ways. Batman follows his rules and is apparently incorruptable; Harvey Dent is corruptible and essentially decides to leave good and bad acts up to chance; and The Joker just doesn't play by any rules and embraces the chaos.

Do you think there's anything to any of Nolan's ideas? (ie. Is our world really so chaotic? Is it better to have rules or not have any at all? Do the views of these characters have a more abstract significance?)

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by DerDrache

(This isn't actually about The Dark Knight)

So, since I'd guess most of us saw Batman yesterday/today, I'm curious what you all thought of the various philosophical things it suggested. As I saw it, you h ave this chaotic world, and the 3 main characters approach it in different ways. Batman follows his rules and is apparently incorruptable; Harvey Dent is corruptible and essentially decides to leave good and bad acts up to chance; and The Joker just doesn't play by any rules and embraces the chaos.

For a Hollywood movie, it had an admirable dose of philosophy, but let's be real here --- when your primary motive is to make $$$ and keep the audience on the edge of their seats you ain't gonna have alot of groundbreaking insight.

Do you think there's anything to any of Nolan's ideas? (ie. Is our world really so chaotic?

[spoilers]
Maybe in a world where a single maniac can instantly rig up ocean-liners, hospitals and police headquarters with explosives and gain a personal army of assault-rifle toting thugs by stabbing somebody with a pencil. Fortunately we don't live in that world.
[/spoilers]

Is it better to have rules or not have any at all?)

Frankly it makes more sense to ask whether or not any portion of the world without rules stands a chance of keeping itself that way.

[KikoSanchez]

I think it was an interesting study of "human nature," if there is such a thing. But I think the whole boat situation was nonsense, someone would have pulled that trigger in real life.

[Q]

Originally Posted by KikoSanchez

I think it was an interesting study of "human nature," if there is such a thing. But I think the whole boat situation was nonsense, someone would have pulled that trigger in real life.

Exactly!
In my opinion, the Joker is the voice of reason in the movie.
Everything in reality is chaotic at some level, so trying to bring order to it is futile.
The same applies to humans, who are inherently repulsive and pathetic due to their instinct to survive, and the Joker realises this.
In real life his experiment would have succeeded.

[DerDrache]

Originally Posted by Q

Exactly!
In my opinion, the Joker is the voice of reason in the movie.
Everything in reality is chaotic at some level, so trying to bring order to it is futile.
The same applies to humans, who are inherently repulsive and pathetic due to their instinct to survive, and the Joker realises this.
In real life his experiment would have succeeded.

While I agree that someone (between the boat full of selfish criminals, or just the normal citizens) would have pulled the trigger, there's no need for you to throw your idiotic, "humanity is pathetic" crap into the mix. You can't objectively say that an instinct to survive is pathetic or repulsive. Furthermore, "pathetic" and "repulsive" are vague adjectives that ultimately just reflect your negative opinion, as oppose to actually describing a human quality.

[MR.Kitty55]

Everyone is overlooking the whole purpose of the Joker. His whole thing was that he never wanted to win, however, he never wanted to lose(as he states at the end while hanging). He is looking for a life of constant struggle with Batman because in doing so it brings a purpose to in otherwise a purposeless life.

I think it's just supposed to be basic existentialism, the Joker sees no objective reason in the world and looks to bring meaning to his existence. That's why he says he doesn't want to kill Batman because Batman gives him a reason to live. He enjoys chaos and destruction due to his brutal past which has created hatred for the world and Batman gives him almost a goal to keep striving for. One he hopes he never achieves because otherwise he would be thrown back into the world of nihilism he disdains.

[ganjaninja]

Originally Posted by theprince

maybe in a world where a single maniac can instantly rig up ocean-liners, hospitals and police headquarters with explosives and gain a personal army of assault-rifle toting thugs by stabbing somebody with a pencil. Fortunately we don't live in that world.

thank you

[whocares123]

everyone bitching about that boat scene...i thought it was fine. but my first thought when i saw it happening was the joker had lied and made it so the detonator would either cause whoever pushed it's own boat to blow up, or both boats to blow up. wouldn't that have been better? the group of normal citizens deciding to take out the criminals, turning the key on the detonator, and then their own boat blows up and the criminals are spared, thus rewarding the criminals who weren't willing to blow the other people up. that's just what i thought would happen.

[DerDrache]

Originally Posted by whocares123

everyone bitching about that boat scene...i thought it was fine. but my first thought when i saw it happening was the joker had lied and made it so the detonator would either cause whoever pushed it's own boat to blow up, or both boats to blow up. wouldn't that have been better? the group of normal citizens deciding to take out the criminals, turning the key on the detonator, and then their own boat blows up and the criminals are spared, thus rewarding the criminals who weren't willing to blow the other people up. that's just what i thought would happen.

Uh...that's not what this thread is about, you DICK.

[whocares123]

Originally Posted by DerDrache

Uh...that's not what this thread is about, you DICK.

at least two people mentioned the boat scene, stfu. there's like a billion batman threads, they're all the same now.