Profiling

[DerDrache]

How do you feel about it? I just read an article about a Muslim pilot (originally from Pakistan, naturalized in 1980) that was put on a terrorist watch list, and subsequently banned from flying. He sued and was reinstated

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/...lot_watch_list

On the one hand, I think it's a shame that innocent citizens may be caught up in a natural security net. On the other hand, if Muslim terrorists were responsible for the most devestating terrorist attack, executed via commercial airplanes, it would be utterly idiotic to not consider a Muslim pilot from Pakistan a potential threat (not to say that the individual is inclined to be a terrorist, but logically, given that Muslims (radicals, but Muslims, nonetheless) are targetting us, you're more likely to find the enemy among Muslims). If black Americans were reponsible for such an attack, I would expect such profiling against black Americans. If evangelical Christians were responsible for it, I'd expect such profiling against them.

So, I think profiling is 100% acceptable and necessary, but where should the line be drawn when there's no solid criminal evidence against a suspect?

[Star Wars Fan]

Originally Posted by DerDrache

On the other hand, if Muslim terrorists were responsible for the most devestating terrorist attack, executed via commercial airplanes, it would be utterly idiotic to not consider a Muslim pilot from Pakistan a potential threat

if.....and remember if

[DerDrache]

Originally Posted by Star Wars Fan

if.....and remember if

...They were.

[Q]

Originally Posted by DerDrache

...They were.

SWF is retarded.... And remember that.

[Star Wars Fan]

Originally Posted by Q

SWF is retarded.... And remember that.

no I'm not...

[Q]

Originally Posted by Star Wars Fan

no I'm not...

Sorry.

SWF is autistic.... And remember that.

[MR.Kitty55]

Originally Posted by DerDrache

So, I think profiling is 100% acceptable and necessary, but where should the line be drawn when there's no solid criminal evidence against a suspect?

No. Profiling doesn't make any sense and is objectively wrong. And I'm not placing any moral values or anything into it, it just logically doesn't make sense. Racial profiling is logically anti-democratic, if you support it, you can't possible support freedom and democracy...Here be why...

Why do we profile? Because we know certain groups (generally of one ethnicity) seek to attack us.

What do they hope to gain from attacking us? To destroy America/Americans and Democracy.

So what do we do to prevent that? Racial profiling. However, racial profiling violates all that Democracy stands for (i.e. Personal liberty, has anyone heard of it?). By using racial profiling we are effectively destroying democracy to protect Democracy.

Democracy means treating everyone with equal respect, not signaling out those due to racial stereotypes (Muslims are more likely terrorists). If you truly believe in Democracy and not fascism, you won't support profiling.

And just on a side note, anyone who is afraid of terrorism is a complete fucking idiot and should be executed.

[DerDrache]

Originally Posted by MR.Kitty55

No. Profiling doesn't make any sense and is objectively wrong. And I'm not placing any moral values or anything into it, it just logically doesn't make sense. Racial profiling is logically anti-democratic, if you support it, you can't possible support freedom and democracy...Here be why...

Why do we profile? Because we know certain groups (generally of one ethnicity) seek to attack us.

What do they hope to gain from attacking us? To destroy America/Americans and Democracy.

So what do we do to prevent that? Racial profiling. However, racial profiling violates all that Democracy stands for (i.e. Personal liberty, has anyone heard of it?). By using racial profiling we are effectively destroying democracy to protect Democracy.

Democracy means treating everyone with equal respect, not signaling out those due to racial stereotypes (Muslims are more likely terrorists). If you truly believe in Democracy and not fascism, you won't support profiling.

And just on a side note, anyone who is afraid of terrorism is a complete fucking idiot and should be executed.

You're wrong on all counts.

1) "'Democracy' is a form of government in which the supreme power is held completely by the people under a free electoral system." Profiling is only "anti-democratic" if the majority doesn't support it.

2) It does make sense. You said yourself that "we know certain groups seek to attack us". Statistically, that means you're more likely to find terrorists within that specific group. If someone gives you a carton of red and blue colored eggs, and says that there are more rotten red eggs than blue ones, then you would "profile" the red ones.

3) Terrorism is a very real and very dangerous thing. Go tell the Israelis that have to worry about getting blown up on buses that they're "complete fucking idiots and should be executed". Obviously, things are much more severe there (and in other places) than in America, but you're the "fucking idiot" if you think terrorism isn't real, serious issue.

[Spiphel Rike]

Originally Posted by MR.Kitty55

No. Profiling doesn't make any sense and is objectively wrong. And I'm not placing any moral values or anything into it, it just logically doesn't make sense. Racial profiling is logically anti-democratic, if you support it, you can't possible support freedom and democracy...Here be why...

Why do we profile? Because we know certain groups (generally of one ethnicity) seek to attack us.

What do they hope to gain from attacking us? To destroy America/Americans and Democracy.

So what do we do to prevent that? Racial profiling. However, racial profiling violates all that Democracy stands for (i.e. Personal liberty, has anyone heard of it?). By using racial profiling we are effectively destroying democracy to protect Democracy.

Democracy means treating everyone with equal respect, not signaling out those due to racial stereotypes (Muslims are more likely terrorists). If you truly believe in Democracy and not fascism, you won't support profiling.

And just on a side note, anyone who is afraid of terrorism is a complete fucking idiot and should be executed.

I'd accept having 'oh so important democracy' damaged, it's pretty fucked anyway, a bit of common sense won't flush it down the toilet any more than all of the bullshit that's been tacked onto it in the last 100 years or so.

By your standards it seems you would prefer EVERYONE to be searched and gone over, that's just not something that's possible with the available resources and would be much more unhealthy for freedom than checking people you're suspicious of.

I don't know about you, but if I've got a real enemy I won't pretend to not notice out of fear of being labelled a racist/fascist/whatever.

[Dark_Magneto]

Profiling is great because it lets people like Kaczynski and McVeigh bypass the net and show how ridiculous it is.