Free will?

youth in asia · #1 2008-10-24, 06:47

I know this is the oldest discussion ever but do you believe in free will?

I personally don't, provided you define free will as something outside of determinism. In other words, you are 'free' to make the choices that have been predetermined by the initial states of the universe, but are unable to deviate from that.

It's a very interesting concept, if everything we do has been predetermined from before we were born, and we are in essence just reacting to everything that happens to us, the concept of responsibility becomes somewhat meaningless, no?

yoda_me07 · #2 2008-10-24, 06:59

Yes, i believe we do have a free will, in that i do believe in God.

btw this question isn't really applicable to agnostics or atheists alike.
so it belongs in 'My God can beat the shit out of your God'

youth in asia · #3 2008-10-24, 07:01

i think it belongs here, i have no wish for any religious people to comment on it because I could care less for their point of view

yoda_me07 · #4 2008-10-24, 07:21

so i take it your an atheist?

i'd say that if your an atheist,

life just randomly happened.
the universe is just an accidental colorficaiton of atoms.

so essentially, the universe is an accident.
your birth is an accident,
your death is an accident,
and everything else in between is just another accident.

so really, you can't believe in pre-determination anyhow.

KikoSanchez · #5 2008-10-24, 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoda_me07

Yes, i believe we do have a free will, in that i do believe in God.

btw this question isn't really applicable to agnostics or atheists alike.
so it belongs in 'My God can beat the shit out of your God'

The two ideas are exclusive. You can believe in god and believe in free will or not believe in free will and the same goes for agnostics or atheists. It definitely belongs here, as it has little to do with theism.

KikoSanchez · #6 2008-10-24, 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoda_me07

so i take it your an atheist?

i'd say that if your an atheist,

life just randomly happened.
the universe is just an accidental colorficaiton of atoms.

so essentially, the universe is an accident.
your birth is an accident,
your death is an accident,
and everything else in between is just another accident.

so really, you can't believe in pre-determination anyhow.

Why not? He was determined to end up with the belief of determinism. Determinism does not make us unable to think, rationalize, or make thoughts, in fact, it is BECAUSE of determinism that we are able to do such things. Non-determinism is chaos. It seems the only way around determinism, while keeping rationality intact, is to invoke the supernatural via dualism, which is easily disposable upon any scientific scrutiny.

Personally, I don't think we have real/absolute free will, just free will the same as a dog, cat, ant, flower, etc have, that is we can "do what we want," which isn't saying much since our notion of 'what we want' is determined and transmitted as a thought after it has been created subconsciously. Thank god for our lack of free will.

enkrypt0r · #7 2008-10-24, 15:16

No, I don't believe in free will. I believe that we can make choices, and it seems like free will, but in reality, all it is is complex brain functions, chemical reactions, electric sparks, etc. which we have no control over. These brain functions happen as a result of the environment and how we see and interpret the environment. It seems like free will, but everything's based on equations.

From there, it gets into the Chaos theory a bit, but all in all, the universe runs on equations, and it's nothing but order masquerading as disorder. Humans and their brains are no exception.

merciless mercenary · #8 2008-10-24, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by enkrypt0r

No, I don't believe in free will. I believe that we can make choices, and it seems like free will, but in reality, all it is is complex brain functions, chemical reactions, electric sparks, etc. which we have no control over. These brain functions happen as a result of the environment and how we see and interpret the environment. It seems like free will, but everything's based on equations.

From there, it gets into the Chaos theory a bit, but all in all, the universe runs on equations, and it's nothing but order masquerading as disorder. Humans and their brains are no exception.

"brain functions are result of the envirorment and how we interpret it" so people never change and if they do they're not aware of it or this thing called "self reflection." Lol u fail

of course free will exists if you aren't a bitch or a pawn lost in a maze.

my screw ups are my screw ups. It might seem like someone elses fault but it really isn't. Its like people who're like ZOMG I CANT STOP DOING DRUGS IM POWERLESS. That just means you're weak and more easily lead around.

easeoflife22 · #9 2008-10-24, 18:27

Can you define Will?

youth in asia · #10 2008-10-24, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by merciless mercenary

"brain functions are result of the envirorment and how we interpret it" so people never change and if they do they're not aware of it or this thing called "self reflection." Lol u fail

of course free will exists if you aren't a bitch or a pawn lost in a maze.

my screw ups are my screw ups. It might seem like someone elses fault but it really isn't. Its like people who're like ZOMG I CANT STOP DOING DRUGS IM POWERLESS. That just means you're weak and more easily lead around.

^totally missed the point