Violence

[aLn]

What got me the idea for writing this thread was the culmination of two recent events. One happened to me and the other was a friend's anecdote.

The first event was at a party with some friends. It was a friendly get together until these two guys showed up. You could easily tell they were on some kind of "psycho-intimidation" type vibe and were trying to scare everyone. They would go up to all the girls there telling them to suck their dicks, talk shit to the guys there and tons of other rude and uncalled for shit.

Eventually the guys made their way over to me. One of them had blond hair and piercings on his face, the other brown hair. The brown haired guy was definitely the more reserved of the two. The blond haired guy was the one being the rudest and trying to intimidate the hardest.

I guess the brown haired guy could tell I may own a set of balls and defend myself so he laid off trying the intimidation shit. His blond haired counterpart though took a different route and really started testing me. He started like grabbing my manboobs and then he went for my dick. At that moment some animal shit kicked in and I threw maybe one or two punches and that guy was on the floor within seconds. Turns out those two guys were soft as fuck kids from some hick town.

In that situation I felt the violence I engaged in was justified.


Now for the other event. The one I described as a friends anecdote. It goes like this: My friend was taking the bus home from work, he does construction so he was carrying a hammer and other tools. When he stepped on the bus, three black guys, sitting two or three rows up started laughing and commenting that they wished they had that hammer when they beat some guy down.

My friend chuckled and then took a seat. Then he witnessed something very unusual. One of the three tall black guys proceeded to roll up a newspaper, spit on it, and then bash some random white guy on the head with it.

The stunned white guy gets up and starts screaming some shit, the black guys rush him and start senselessly beating on him. One of the black guys shouts "he called me a nigger" (which was completely untrue).

The bus driver stopped the bus and the white guy managed to escape and lock himself into a nearby donut store.

So those are the two events.

What I would like to know is when is violence justified? When should one use force? I believed my use of force in the first example was justified, but what of the situation with the black guys. If I was that white guy on the bus what would I do? If I fought back against those black guys, I'd surely lose. Would the right thing to do fight back and lose? Would the right thing be to just take the humiliation and walk away?

TLDR; When should one use violence? or When is use of force necessary?

[Sir_Fos]

Originally Posted by aLn

He started like grabbing my manboobs

...lol, you've got manboobs

[Deliteful Despot]

I don't think the guy in the second scenario would have been justified in using violence in retaliation because he was not in any sort of immediate danger. His best bet would probably be to just ignore them because if they failed to get a rise out of him then they would probably have just moved on. The guy would have been justified in responding to the three black guys in a nonviolent way.

Also, I don't think you were entirely justified in your use of violence, the other guys were just being pricks and/or were drunk/high. I could understand you trying to protect your rep but they were obviously lightweight(er)s, what did you prove by knocking a pussy out?

[The Return]

Originally Posted by aLn

One of the black guys shouts "he called me a nigger" (which was completely untrue).

Hahahaha, they do that ALL the time. Really pisses me off.

[aLn]

Originally Posted by Deliteful Despot

I don't think the guy in the second scenario would have been justified in using violence in retaliation because he was not in any sort of immediate danger. His best bet would probably be to just ignore them because if they failed to get a rise out of him then they would probably have just moved on. The guy would have been justified in responding to the three black guys in a nonviolent way.

Also, I don't think you were entirely justified in your use of violence, the other guys were just being pricks and/or were drunk/high. I could understand you trying to protect your rep but they were obviously lightweight(er)s, what did you prove by knocking a pussy out?

I agree with the last part, I should have probably kept my cool.

The first part though... You get smacked on the head with a spit on newspaper and you just ignore your attacker? That seems a little fucked up. But it is a tough question as retaliating could result in serious injury or death. I think now, that the best decision would be some kind of verbal condemnation, but not provoking. In the heat of the moment that would be very tricky.

I suppose in theory violence should only be used in self defense against serious harm. Does anyone really stick to that though? I wish I had some kind of perfect code for when to be violent and when not to be.

[Deliteful Despot]

Originally Posted by aLn

I agree with the last part, I should have probably kept my cool.

The first part though... You get smacked on the head with a spit on newspaper and you just ignore your attacker? That seems a little fucked up. But it is a tough question as retaliating could result in serious injury or death. I think now, that the best decision would be some kind of verbal condemnation, but not provoking. In the heat of the moment that would be very tricky.

I suppose in theory violence should only be used in self defense against serious harm. Does anyone really stick to that though? I wish I had some kind of perfect code for when to be violent and when not to be.

I agree with you on when violence should be used. Although, I don't think he should have "condemned" the guys, at most he should have asked them politely to stop, it sounds like the three guys were just itching to fight.

Perfect code? I don't think there is one.

[aLn]

Originally Posted by Deliteful Despot

I don't think he should have "condemned" the guys, at most he should have asked them politely to stop

Your telling me if I bashed you over the head with a solid object, the most you would do is politely ask me to stop? Or does the fact I am white change your decision here...

[Deliteful Despot]

You say it was a newspaper? At MOST it will sting. It really is just an annoyance. Now, if you came at me with a hammer I would be inclined to take some kind of action (most likely run, but you get the idea).

EDIT: Race, even if you are not motivated by it, can make a situation more volatile if others think that what you are doing is racially motivated.

[aLn]

Originally Posted by Deliteful Despot

You say it was a newspaper? At MOST it will sting. It really is just an annoyance. Now, if you came at me with a hammer I would be inclined to take some kind of action (most likely run, but you get the idea).

EDIT: Race, even if you are not motivated by it, can make a situation more volatile if others think that what you are doing is racially motivated.

Okay. But, is it right to just take that kind of abuse from people? Does one not have a responsibility to take action in order to send a message that this kind of stuff is out of line?

Back in the olden days this kind of behavior would get a man killed. Nowadays people just idly sit by and watch others get hurt.

Classic example of what people are turning into:
http://www.canada.com/windsorstar/ne...a-53801510af24

Thats a link to the story of a man who was beheaded on a Canadian greyhound bus. Everyone just sat idly by and watched a psychopath cut the head off some random dude sitting next to him.

Like Wtf... Are people nowadays honestly this cowardly and weak?

[Deliteful Despot]

Granted that is pretty fucked, I could see why people would be wary, I mean, he is fucking the guys fucking head off. But point taken. There is a big difference between getting swatted with a newspaper and having I guy carve you like a turkey. I think there could actually be a significant drop in homicides if people would just leave well enough alone and not have things come to such a painful (literally) point.