you believe in god cause your scarred of dying

[UrbnTbone]

quote:Originally posted by 10000_GeV:

PS Sadie:

I encourage you to think about that statement in further detail... Pascal's (yes, this statement is a paraphrase on one made centuries ago by a French mathematician) argument is only so effective as one's assumption of what is "better."

It can be quickly torn apart when one considers that others might not think it "better" to have disbelieved and turned out wrong. Perhaps to some people this is actually better than its opposite: believing and being right.

It actually implies a fair amount of luck. One wagers that God will honor belief, without knowing that he actually will, in contradistinction to those who wager the opposite... What if one didn't want to "play dice" with one's soul, even if it meant forsaking the benefits of doing otherwise?

What if one couldn't respect a God who only honored those lucky individuals to have "placed the right bets"?

With that in mind, Pascal's argument is easily proved false because it implies assumptions about The Good that aren't necessarily true.

I mean, Plato spends so much time trying to define "the good"--I don't see how Pascal can just skip over it in a heartbeat, thinking it already perfectly clear!

Yes, yet... Rational thought is not a sin to me, even though sometimes it has got to be fought...

Examination of this creation can lead one to logical assumptions, and if there is some higher being, creative energy however you may call it, chances are that by siding with it, you end up gaining something; Just as in the world, if you side with the powerful you most probably get rewards (without judging wether good or evil as an attitude).

The difference being that in this world by siding with the system you are co-responsible of the weak's crushing. While in the spiritual hypothesis, you do nothing eveil by just following your conclusions individually.

If you influence others, though, you may have to pay some of their debts. Like, if you work a lot on reaching out to someone, then that person you "converted" becomes a vicious corruptor of religion. You sit back and think: "had I known had I done it?" And you pay karmic shit you generated, even with the best of intentions. well that's a bit off-topic...

I am not afraid of death, it can reap me anytime. I don't believe in God, just none proved me it's not God that made me, my parents, etc... So if it was real? It's worth some review and new positioning in life, wether you "believe" or not.

[lady_dw]

quote:Originally posted by eBlip:

the reason for all these fucked up religions is because, everyone is shit scarred of dying and cant find out the reason they are alive, so they pull out their korans and bibles and hope that something they dont really believe in, will save their sorry ass.

the truth is, by pulling out your bibles and korans ...you just fucked it mate.

if you want the truth... let me know and i may explain.

Firstly, what do you plan to accomplish by saying this? Most theists who read this will just ignore it or debate you on it 'till they are blue in the face and then call on faith and stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalalala, completely ignoring what you have to say.

Secondly, people fear death because it is an unknown quantity. Some religious people "know" what happens after death and it helps them get through the day. They no longer fear death. Most atheists feel the same way when they "know" that nothing happens. They don't fear it anymore for the same reason as the theist. So, why try to burst their bubble? Some people would go insane if you prove them wrong and they then have to deal with death all over again.

[UrbnTbone]

Well if it was only because of fear, people can learn detachment from fear of death without believing in anything. Anyway the feeling of abandon and letting go, is one of the keys to enlightenment, wether theist(mono- or poly-) or not(buddhist etc...)

But anyway thopse who need to debate in order to settle things are in the right place here, since they will find food for thought (tasty or not). And that's the way one goes forwards...

[Tadgh]

God is only a mere hope. People would freak out if they thought there was no god. All people have their boubts though.(even priests)... I am an athiest... whenever I tell my christian friends about what I think "Religion" is they bug out. They become totally bugged out. Panic grasps them.

They are so inscure that they can think of nothing but death. Their common sense leaves them

~TIM~

[Dark_Magneto]

quote:Originally posted by Beany:

I love life, but If god didn't exist then I wouldn't wanna either.

Does the existence of a sky pixy, so far removed from reality that it can't be percieved or detected by any means and whose existence is of no consequence to anyone, make your life any more or less worth living?

If tomorrow you found out for sure that no gods exist, would it suddenly make your life worse? It wouldn't phase me in the slightest. I wouldn't suddenly lose all my money or contract leprosy.

Either gods exist or they don't. If they do, then so be it. if they don't, then they never did and I guess all the joy, happiness, and every positive experience in your life was false because there wasn't a man sitting on a cloud somewhere.

So all those good times that were had, you have to give them back.

Either your life is worth living, right now, or it isn't. The existence or non-existence of any particular deity is entirely without incident. If your enjoying life, then continue to do so because you enjoy life. The existence of supernatural deities aren't requisite to have a good life.You could win a million dollars and discover that there is no god on the same day, and those million dollars aren't going to depreciate in value because you finally came out of your ignorant preconcieved notion and realized the natural state of things as they has always been.

Either your life has purpose now, or it never did. The existence or nonexistence of any particular thing is irrelevant.

[Kikey_Kikeowitz]

quote:Originally posted by Tadgh:

People would freak out if they thought there was no god.

I don't see you freaking out.

Nor any of the many athiests I know. They're not freaking out because they think there's no God.

Just because you assume some kind of intellectual superiority due to your beliefs, doesn't mean that the people who believe in something contradictory to what you believe are some kind of fucking chicken littles.

Hell, I'd be willing to wager that many of them are far smarter than you are.



[This message has been edited by Kikey_Kikeowitz (edited 07-20-2003).]

[UrbnTbone]

Funny to notice that intolerance and irony are not the monopoly of poor little believers. And as a sign of fear, the unability to integrate and investigate seriously any system different from yours, is quite reliable of a sign.

So why stay symptomatic and fearfully stuck in your pseudo-logical mind ruts? Go and investigate, then talk. And I mean, talk atheism, but at least, with some real thought, not as an insult to common sense.

In other words, I encourage you to either learn more about logics and the limits of investigation on God, and come back with backed theories, or else to realize that religion is not just what sick&mad weirdoes taught you it was, and then naturally stop somatizing on that topic that you ignore.

Eblip, you just brought yourself down a few my making this superior stance which was soon destroyed by the brains of this thread. You need to listen and learn and not post things that you thought were intelligent.

Perhaps you should try to rethink your idea because no offense, its just out there.

[Fuck]

hey eblip, what is your opinion on atheists who have had near death experiences even though they didn't believe there was an afterlife?

[eBlip]

Right....

People are entitled to believe whatever they like..... Its not important to me wether someone agrees or disagrees with what i have to say...

i say it simply because i want to...

i dont have to say what you want me to say...

im free to say what i want....

my thoughts come from inspiration rather than education, i dont need to read up on facts and listen to other peoples ideas....as i have a mind of my own...

noone knows me better than myself...so you cant tell me what is right and wrong.

If its an intellectual battle you are looking for... then go to college.

if you want to know the truth....this i know for a fact...you wont find there.

if you seek the truth then be inspired and look within....and whatever you come up with will be true to you....true to your personal experiences and true to your heart.

i dont care whether religions say to do this or not....its totally irrelevant to me.

i am as i am....

i can see there are a lot of bullshitters around with their heads up their own arse, and want to be seen to look good and splutter out loads of sheer crap, and try to tie people in knotts in orde to win their argument.

the only important thing for them is winning.

all i am saying is, dont just believe, find out directly what is in your innermost being,

quash your ego and KNOW.

if you have been born into a religion...then dont commit unitl you have looked at every single other religion on planet earth....see what they have to say.....if your a disbeliever then dont committ to that until you have first looked at every single other religion on planet earth..

as you know..this is impossible to do in one lifetime...so another approach....which is my personal approach. is to not bother with all these religions and books and priests etc.

just make a sincere effort throughout your life to find out about yourself, why you do things, what are you. analyse your feelings and the things you do and always ask YOURSELF WHY. when you decide to do something ask yourself, who decided, look deep within, and learn to be as you are. and as you learn you will erradicate all the unnecessary stuff, and learn to depend on yourself and not have to listen to what the bullshitters are spurting on about, not have to listen to people who only know about 1 or 10 religions.

ITS YOU WHO HAS TO LIVE THIS LIFE .....SO THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING TO UNDERSTAND.....IS YOU.