Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:
I often sit silent and think until my head hurts. I often I start to think about where we came from, and often I say a god put us here. Then I think well, where or who did this god come from?
I see a vast whitness and then I think of energy and then a single energy. And wonder where it came from. Then I think well, somebody created God, some body created that god. And it goes on and on and on.
If God did indeed put us here, what energy did he come from?
Well if you were a god, would you wonder about this too? And would you try to find out? If so, how would you do this.-And then my thought stops, it's like I'm coming on to something that I'm not supposed to know. Everytime I get to this part and I try to keep thinking it feels like something is shutting me out.
Has anyone else ever tried this, if so did you feel this too?
Or what exactly would you do if you were a god in this predicament?
Do you think we're supposed to know this?
Sorry to those who feel it's a cyber rant, but this has been happening to me for years and I had to say something about it.
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"Relative and absolute,
These the two truths are declared to be.
The absolute is not within the reach of the intellect,
For the intellect is grounded in the relative." Shantideva(buddhist teacher 7th-8th century CE)
Apparently these thoughts of god are common to man of all eras metalligod, you are not alone! Particularly in asking "Do you think we're supposed to know this?"
That is a good question!
A relative truth would be to say "I know Metalligod from the posts on TOTSE, I know how Metalligod thinks and expresses, therefore I know Metalligod." But do I? No, not in an absolute sense, and in fact to actually know Metalligod in the abolute sense I would need to become you!
Impossible, same as god or how s/he came into being, absolute knowledge is not possible, unless god is a part of us or we are a part of god, or perhaps a reflection?
Myself, i cognise reality in this way: There can be nothing! To say nothing exists or could have existed, or might exist in the future is not possible. Nothing does not exist, it is an oxymoron to say nothing exists.
I exist, "I think therefore I am" (Descartes?) + there is a natural physical existence apparent. Nothing cannot exist + The universe exists = existence is the imperative -- there can be 'nothing' besides.
Physics(as I in my limited understanding of it) portrays a material universe constructed of energy. Energy is eternal - 1st law of thermodynamics "energy cannot be created or destroyed - it simply changes form". A seed sprouts, it absorbs energy from sunlight, and energy from the earth, grows to maturity and dies. The energy dissipates, some to other plants and animals, parts of the tree may burn and the energy converts to light and heat. No energy is lost, ever, there is nothing else, only energy, constantly changing form.
In this world of matter, we being composed of matter, perceive only the 'relative truths', as expressed in matter. There are however energies that are not visible or detectable by the natural human senses, but are discoverable through scientific analysis.
"As above so below"(Kybalion), likewise Taoist teaching instructs one to observe the natural universe and then one may extrapolate that to the unseen universe. However the Tao that can be known is not the Tao, the Tao that can be named is not Tao".
There exists energy and matter, the dimensions in which 'pure' energy exist are not observable by means of matter, that is our physical senses. Our mind however is different. Where in your brain is your mind located, where is the seat of your consciousness, your awareness? One may be conscious at the same instant of parts within and things without, consciousness is able to project itself and see, through the eyes of imagination, all of the universe and the parts therein.
In a chaotic energy field, such as the universe may be seen to be, electricity is observed to transmit in triangular irregularities. Those patterns resemble the neurologic pathways of the brain, could the universe be wired like the brain? Could the universe think?
What is a thought? A neurotransmitter firing a synapse? Energy? Can one show a thought? Handle it - literally?
Electrical forces are partnered to magnetic forces and one sees that electricity sets up electromagnetic forces, you and i are subject them at this very moment from the monitor in front of us. High tension electrical powerlines are know to light a flourescent tube held in hand beneath the wires that are far overhead. We are subject to electro-magnetic radiation at all times, sunlight, radiation, Schumanns Waves( mother earths electricity, generated by the thousand or so lightning strikes every moment around the planet, the electricity generated travels in waves around the planet at frequencies that match human brainwaves).
Thinking in terms of energy and thought, and the eastern philosophys that identify 'god' as consciousness, the modern japanese concept of 'Hado' that equates the energy that consciousness works at as being composed of the smallest units of energy - the energy propelling the electrons. Thermodynamics and Hermetics added to the mix gives me the impression of being as a unity. All things being in their essence composed of energy.
Energy equating to 'spirit', that is spirit as being non-corporeal, and answering to 'pure' energy not being detectable by natural material beings, and, "God is Spirit"(Gospel of John)
"where or who did this god come from?" As i understand it god did not come from anywhere, there is nothing aside from existence! That existence is expressed as energy, constantly changing form and undectable by matter when in the form of pure energy, as is spirit. God is spirit = god is energy. The absolute is not able to be known by the relative. Energybeing is not cognised by matterbeing.
"If God did indeed put us here, what energy did he come from?" The energy of existence, as per the 1st law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, it is eternal, just as god is said to be eternal, and because there can not be "nothing", 'nothing' never existed, therefore there was never a beginning, as that would have required a state of nothingness prior to the beginning, and from nothing comes nothing.
In the absence of zero there is only infinite positives and negatives, as in algebra when one is able to make sums from a zero as long as the negative values assigned are matched by the positive values. So we see in nature an endless progression of negative and positive values, from the protons and the electrons through to nebulas where stars are born and black holes where matter is destroyed - converts back to pure energy. Everything is one substance manifesting as pulling and pushing forces in an infinite array of matter, energy is this substance.
"Well if you were a god, would you wonder about this too? And would you try to find out? If so, how would you do this.-And then my thought stops, it's like I'm coming on to something that I'm not supposed to know. Everytime I get to this part and I try to keep thinking it feels like something is shutting me out."
Yes and yes
How, is by recognising that the only constant is change, even the speed of light has been mastered by science, "everything moves, everything vibrates"(Kybalion) What is my 'relative truth' today may change by the morrow and still be a relative truth, but the absolute is unknowable except by the 'absolute'.
That, i am not, however "as above so below", i am still able to learn, progressively, those things that are able to be known in the realm of matter.
The reason i feel, as do you(maybe), 'uncomfortable' in approaching the absolute, is that it is so great that my 'relative' being shrinks .. to nothingness, and of course that does not exist
Then i question my own existence, am i in fact real? What is real? Is real that which is eternal, unchanging? Then i am not real, that is the physical/material me, but what of the energy? my spirit?
END OF RANT IN REPLY TO RANT
DISCLAIMER: this rant should not be taken as 'gospel', rather as a contribution to a conversation about the unknowable.
Namaste
Linear Mode
