Limitations?

[Metalligod]

If God is an all-knowing being, how can He have free will? If God knows all, why then did He not know that the Ten Commandments, would be, or were flawed until later down the line?

If He has free will, and knows all, would He be able to change His mind on what actions to take?

If so, then would that make Him not omniscient? I ask because, I want to know if this would then prove His prior prediction to be wrong?

Now does this decision to take a different action also show a limitation of power? I ask this because power means ability, and He'd then lack the ability to know ahead of time to what choices He'd make.

If God is perfect, why then has He made so many errors in judgement, and creation? Such as: the Ten Commandments, the Death of Christ, not being able to detect evil, making a flawed creature that is supposed to be perfect, etc.

Dedicated to Ashes; is this a better way of proving my point?

[Hexadecimal]

And poof, there goes the Christian God in a cloud of logic.

[evolove]

Look up Advaita Vedanta, or just read the Bhagavad Gita.

The illusion of free will is part of the fall.

Many Jews(Qabbalahists) read the Tohar in this way, along with some Christian Saints/Mystics, also read Rumi for a Sufi perspective. If you understand "The Word" then you will understand this in some manner.

[nevermind]

quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:

If God is an all-knowing being, how can He have free will? If God knows all, why then did He not know that the Ten Commandments, would be, or were flawed until later down the line?

if someone knows everything...he still has free will doesnt he? if a nuclear scientist knows everything about making a nuke, its still his free will about how and what he does with this knowledge... and why are the 10 commandments flawed? please explain...

quote:

If He has free will, and knows all, would He be able to change His mind on what actions to take?

well he has changed his mind-he knows everything, yes, but then also has compassion. He offered to destroy the nation of israel and continue the seed of abraham through Moses before(cos israel were showing him no respect after all he did for them)...Moses asked him not to do it, so he didnt....

quote:

If so, then would that make Him not omniscient? I ask because, I want to know if this would then prove His prior prediction to be wrong?

if he can change his mind...why would that make him not omniscient? and there isnt a single prophecy in the bible that can be proved outright, not to be true.

quote:

Now does this decision to take a different action also show a limitation of power? I ask this because power means ability, and He'd then lack the ability to know ahead of time to what choices He'd make.

if somebody had all the power they ever wanted, then never changed there mind, or listened to anybody-they would be a dictator. like it or not, however annoying some bible commands are, they are all there for your greater good. Also, would it not be unfair for God to judge us all without us knowing the future? it wouldnt prove anything to anyone except god. This shows love, as he allows us to see proof that he is right.

quote:

If God is perfect, why then has He made so many errors in judgement, and creation? Such as: the Ten Commandments, the Death of Christ, not being able to detect evil, making a flawed creature that is supposed to be perfect, etc.

why do you say creation is flawed? look around you-the whole earth, amazing things around you...i hardly call that imperfect. Errors in judgment? So would you call something perfect if it couldnt do anything for itself, or think its own thoughts?? You can know exactly what is right to do...and still not do what is right. Its called free will-and thats why we were orginally perfect. We have all the ability to think for ourselves, and yet God lets us go about doing what we want, but provides standards for us to try to meet. Its called Government. Not being able to detect evil? Why do you think that?

[Metalligod]

if someone knows everything...he still has free will doesnt he?

Yeah what's your point? That wasn't my arguement.

if a nuclear scientist knows everything about making a nuke, its still his free will about how and what he does with this knowledge...

How is that relivent to what I asked?

and why are the 10 commandments flawed? please explain...

Sorry, this was my fault. I meant Convenant.

well he has changed his mind-he knows everything, yes...

Ok, then if He changed His mind, and took a different action, doesn't that mean He's not omniscient? If He took a different action then that proves His prior knowledge wrong. He did not do what He supposedly knew He would do, therefore He was wrong, thus making Him non-omniscient.

if somebody had all the power they ever wanted, then never changed there mind, or listened to anybody-they would be a dictator.

What does this have to do with anything?

Also, would it not be unfair for God to judge us all without us knowing the future?

It wouldn't be unfair, however, He'd not be omnibenevolent. This would mean that He can't truly love us all. If you loved someone, and you knew ahead of time they would take actions that will cause them to burn in hell forever, would you not try and prevent it from happening? If so then how could your truly care for them, how could you be omnibenevolent? How the hell does that show love?

why do you say creation is flawed? look around you-the whole earth, amazing things around you...

I don't mean to be rude...but, you'd have to be really stupid to think the world is not flawed. There are thousands dying everyday, countries starving, rape and a world of other horrible things going on.

Errors in judgment? So would you call something perfect if it couldnt do anything for itself, or think its own thoughts??

What does that have to do with anything I've said? What the hell does that have to do with anything I've said?

You can know exactly what is right to do...and still not do what is right.

Umm... That's called an ERROR IN JUDGEMENT!!

Its called free will-and thats why we were orginally perfect. We have all the ability to think for ourselves, and yet God lets us go about doing what we want, but provides standards for us to try to meet.

You must have vasty misunderstood everything I've posted. Because this has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said.

Its called Government.

What the f**k, this shit is funny. I'm sorry but this has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Not being able to detect evil? Why do you think that?

Because He didn't know that Satan, nor Ezekiel, and lot of others were evil.

Do you not read the bible?

[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 04-20-2004).]

[Metalligod]

It may seem like it but I'm not trying to be rude to anybody. So plz don't take offense to what I say.

[Metalligod]

I don't believe He's omniscient or omnipotent, and now have proof(if indeed the bible is truth) that He's not. And to man that should be a good thing.

I raise these questions to say only this, people shouldn't expect so much from God. God does not any of us intimately, so why should He care for us?

Going to heaven would mean the possibility of knowing Him. But I don't know God, and I don't love Him. And if I were God, I wouldn't love everyone 'Just Because' either. To love someone, I believe you have to know them intimately. I believe that any being that could just love someone without knowing them, would be a naive and ignorant being.

But again the whole point of this post was to say that ppl should not expect so much of God. I'm sure He has His own agenda, and needn't make time to plz everyone. I don't believe His goal is to plz everyone.

For, what would He have gained if everyone is made to love Him. Where then is the free will? If He wanted to make a being that just loved Him without any will own there own then it would be pointless to make us.

If He can gain the love of someone then He has gotten something of true value.(This goes for anyone)

[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 04-21-2004).]

[NewDude]

if someone knows everything...he still has free will doesnt he? if a nuclear scientist knows everything about making a nuke, its still his free will about how and what he does with this knowledge

Gimme a break. Let me try to ask Met's question. I'll dumb it down for you.

God is omniscient and by definition his knowledge cannot be wrong. God knows (via his omniscience) that he will drink a glass of milk on Friday. So the question is, does God have free will in this situation? Can he choose not to drink the milk on Friday?

[AI]

Maybe god being all-knowing is a lie. All powerful is something different. Think about it they do go hand and hand yet they are different, so its easy to get them mixed up. What if someone was trying to describe god and said omnipotent all powerful. A child can't lie unless it knows better. And after a lie has been carried down from generation to generation, a lie just might become true, though it is still a lie. How could anyone believe in the bible knowing that it has been edited many a time. I have the King James version.

On the other hand, have you ever known somebody so well that you just know what they are going to do. Maybe gods omnipotence is kinda like that. We are creatures of habit.

The ten commandments are bull because they can all be sumed up in two. Respect, and the sabbith.

Honestly I think we judge ourselves. God doesn't judge us because WE ARE NOT PERFECT! So asking us to be perfect is bullshit. Grace.

[BD w/ Kung-Fu Grip]

You have free will, because God really does not want everybody in Heaven. It was the plan all along to trick most people into going to Hell and make it very difficult to get into Heaven.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Matthew 7:13-14

You have to be an über-christian to get into Heaven.