Question to fellow atheists...

[Elephantitis Man]

I recently converted from Christianity to atheism.

However I had a noob-atheist question and was wondering if someone who's studied a bit could explain:

The universe is formed by the repetitive expanding and collapsing of all matter in the universe (correct me if I'm wrong). My question is, where did the matter originate from? Matter as we know it cannot be created or destroyed, but it had to be created somehow, correct? So what is the origin of matter?

PS. Anyone who quotes Genesis 1:1 gets a fat thumbs down.

[Sarter]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

So what is the origin of matter?

This is more of a Mad Scientists question, but I don't think they'll have an answer to give you that doesn't result in a "well if that created matter then where does that come from?" I think the latest Quantum Physics explanation says our universe is basically a collision between two, super-dimensional particles in slow-mo. The cop-out answer is that matter can be created from energy and vica-versa (E=MC^2).

[iSoape]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Matter as we know it cannot be created or destroyed, but it had to be created somehow, correct?

Incorrect, there is the possibility that the universe always existed, this I beleive. Being rasied a as a human you are led to believe there MUST be a beginning and ending for everything. But this may not be true. I cannot say because of lack of proof, we will never know for sure. But again, I just believe the universe has always been around. Take an open mind to the idea that maybe it wasn't created, its always been there in one shape or form.

[Junyi]

quote:Originally posted by Sarter:

The cop-out answer is that matter can be created from energy and vica-versa (E=MC^2).

Yeah, that is what I believe is the answer to the question, so quoted for truth, I guess. Maybe in the near future we will be able to create materia from energy and make experiments to prove that.

[The_Rabbi]

quote:Originally posted by iSoape:



Incorrect, there is the possibility that the universe always existed, this I beleive.

Shit, you might as well just believe in god.

[SurahAhriman]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

I recently converted from Christianity to atheism.

However I had a noob-atheist question and was wondering if someone who's studied a bit could explain:

The universe is formed by the repetitive expanding and collapsing of all matter in the universe (correct me if I'm wrong). My question is, where did the matter originate from? Matter as we know it cannot be created or destroyed, but it had to be created somehow, correct? So what is the origin of matter?

PS. Anyone who quotes Genesis 1:1 gets a fat thumbs down.

That theory is nowhere near confirmed. Not insulting your physics noobness, I like the theory myself.

But that question is utterly irrelevant. During a "Big Crunch" a couple wierd things happen. As a Crunch is a Bang in reverse, I'll explain it this way so it should be easier to both explain and understand.

1. The four forces (gravity, electromagnetic, weak and strong) will unify into one force.

2. As the size collapses, the heat increases. Eventually, we'll start losing dimensions.

Net effect of this from the Big Bang? It's impossible to aquire information from before it.

Of course, that might be all wrong, but I havn't seen anything disproving it yet.

[jsaxton14]

If I wanted to, I could pull out a couple Physics books of mine and explain in great detail the current theories regarding the origin of the Big Bang (for which there is abundant empirical evidence for). However, I don't fully understand these theories, and, as far as I know, they're just theories. Science hasn't provided us with a complete understanding of the Big Bang yet. This shouldn't bother you. It certainly doesn't bother me. Filling Scientific gaps with religion, however, bothers the hell out of me.

Here's a great example of someone attempting to fill a Scientific gap with religion. I'm sure you're familiar with Isaac Newton. He did much work in kinematics, optics, gravitation, and formalized Calculus in the process. (He spent most of his time, however, studying Theology, oddly enough.) One of the things he did was use his discovery of the Law of Gravitation to derive the elliptical orbits of the planets. He then observed that all the planets were in the same plane. His conclusion? We live in a clockwork universe; God is the watchmaker.

Today we know far more about solar system formation. The planets are all in a plane because the nebula that formed our solar system started to spin and collapse. Using celestial mechanics (not my field) we can demonstrate mathematically that all the major planets should be in a plane. This new insight renders Newton's copout null and void.

It should be noted that this work isn't theoretical. We can observe nebulae and solar system formation using telescopes. Our calculations and theories are consistent with reality. Newton was wrong.

Going back to the original question, most of us want to know where we came from. We're curious beings by nature. I'm not going to say that your curiousity should be satisfied by the current theory of the Big Bang, because that's not true. If everyone were satisfied with the current theory of the Big Bang, we would no longer be researching or debating it. What I'm saying is that, as an Atheist, you no longer have an omniscient god with all the answers. Humanity is on it's own. If we want to know something, we need to figure it out, and we're more than capable of doing so! We can't simply can't ask a magical omniscient man in the sky to answer all of our questions. Embrace this. The Universe is teeming with mystery. That should be uplifting, not depressing. You're only human. You can't possibly know all there is to know, and if you could, what would be the point? It would take all the fun out of life, all the mystery. Life would be boring.

Where did the Big Bang come from? We don't really know. Maybe we'll find out tomorrow, or in a few months, or maybe it'll take decades until we can fully understand it. But right now we don't know, and that's perfectly ok.

[IanBoyd3]

Good point Jsaxton, very well said.

[CBUM]

maybe there was no orgin and we live in the present always, so the matter was always there and always will be and all time is an allusion.

[jb_mcbean]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

Matter as we know it cannot be created or destroyed, but it had to be created somehow, correct? So what is the origin of matter?

This phrase is something that creationists derive out of context to try and push their evil agenda. They take it from the first law of thermodynamics which states that the total energy content of a closed system (the sum of kinetic, potential, and thermal energy) is constant.

Anyway when the universe was created there was nothing; I mean no matter, no space, no time, nothing. The fact that nothing at all existed means that there were no laws regarding the universe; there was no E=MC2, no v=d/t or any of that stuff, even normal mathematics or logic couldn't apply as there was nothing for it to work by, nothing for it to be tied or related to.

Because of this it is quite acceptable, in fact plausable that out of nowhere a singularity bubbled up, this would contain all matter that is present in the universe and be about the size of an atom, and it would slowly expand until it reached about the size of an orange, when a catastrophic expansion phase that is described as the big bang began.