Even if the Christian god did exist...

[Elephantitis Man]

I would not be inclined to worship him.

It is said that god is omniscient. People have debated whether or not this implies we are all predestined to go to either heaven or hell, or if god does not know at the point of our conception where we will end up at our life's end (which wouldn't really be omniscience, but whatever). However, it is a given that god knows that a majority of people are going to hell. It even says in the Bible that the road to heaven is small and winding, one less traveled.

God also created man to worship him. Think about it. God has no needs. He's perfect. So why would he create us, but to worship him? It also says in the Bible that's what people do in heaven, praise God for all eternity. So god created us for his own self-gratification. And he knows that a majority of the people that he creates (as he creates all life, all souls) are going to hell.

These aren't the acts of a benevolent being. Even if he had to eternally seperate the sinners from him, he didn't have to make a lake of fire to throw them all into. Why not make a replica of heaven? Or, at worst, a replica of earth? Why no second chances? Why infinite suffering for finite transgressions?

Because in reality, god does not genuinely care about every human on earth. At least 2/3 of the people on this planet are going to suffer for eternity because he can't think of, is incapable of, or doesn't want to give them a second chance, or make hell less painful.

The Christian god is not an all-loving god. If he were real, I wouldn't worship a god so cruel.

[IanBoyd3]

If you even just read the bible itself (without any bias) you can clearly see how brutal and despicable god is. The brick testament shows in visual, literal detail the horrific things he does, it's very well done.

[hyroglyphx]

http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/humans.htm

http://www.carm.org/questions/whydidGodcreateus.htm

[Rust]

Those links don't answer anything. They conviniently ignore the "fact" that he is supposedly omnipotent.

[Elephantitis Man]

That still doesn't cover the whole "billions of souls suffering in hellfire for all eternity" bit.

So God created us so he could die for us, so he could display his love? Sad thing is, god can rise from the dead. Meaning he can give his life again, and rise again, and die again, and rise again. He's immortal. He can be crucified a million times over and go right back to heaven. In effect he created billions of souls, a majority of which to be damned from ever entering heaven, all so he could be tortured for a week or so, lie in a cave for three days, then come out and go right back to heaven to bask in eternal glory once again.

[hyroglyphx]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

That still doesn't cover the whole "billions of souls suffering in hellfire for all eternity" bit.

So God created us so he could die for us, so he could display his love? Sad thing is, god can rise from the dead. Meaning he can give his life again, and rise again, and die again, and rise again. He's immortal. He can be crucified a million times over and go right back to heaven. In effect he created billions of souls, a majority of which to be damned from ever entering heaven, all so he could be tortured for a week or so, lie in a cave for three days, then come out and go right back to heaven to bask in eternal glory once again.

God doesn't damn them, He sentences them. They damned themselves by their actions, just like the murderer condemns himself by his actions when he has to stand before the state. As to the exact reason why He created us, I don't think anyone knows the absolute significance of it. I mean, why are there Penguins? Why are there microbes? Couldn't He have created life without them? Yeah, probabaly. But as far as we know, they serve a function down here. What the expressed purpose is, is not something any of us can understand here in this earthly realm.

And God torturing Himself was a way to show His love for humanity. All, or most of humankind can identify with suffering. They obviously know its a bad thing. So God sacrificing Himself through self-immolation in a horrific way, even though He didn't have to, is an act of mercy on His part. This is Christianity 101. I know you understand this... So what is stumbling you these days?

[slickt0mmy]

do you know what Jesus went through to save you? have you seen the Passion of the Christ? that movie displays pretty much exactly what happened to him.

None of us, not even you, could make it through what he did! His whole body was torn to shreds from their flogging (and don't even think they missed his groin), they shoved a crown of thorns on his head, they stabbed him with a spear, they spat on him, they made him carry his own cross up a mountain, and they beat him mercilessly. When he asked for a cup of water (after they drove 9 inch nails through his wrists and ankles) they gave him a sponge filled with vinager.

Now, tell me, could you go through ALL that without breaking down, begging to be spared, or dying? Yes, he eventually died. But he's human! every human dies. but he went through all that just so your life could be spared from eternal suffering.

the fact that you can say, "oh, he was just tortured for a week" makes me think you are one heartless person. He wasn't just tortured, they beat him to the point where you couldn't even tell if he was a human. He looked like a walking ball of flesh and blood.

I think someone who does that for you deserves a little more respect.

[slickt0mmy]

also, God COULD make Hell less painful. But he won't because the people that don't worship and follow him deserve their punishment. They were warned and they ignored him. Tough luck.

And yes, God cares about EVERY human being on the Earth. He loves us so much but he gives us free will to choose to follow him or not. If he didn't, nobody would truly love him, and that's what he wants.

So, you have a choice to follow Him or not. He cares about you and will guide you through life. But the moment you decide to do things your own way, he steps back and gets out of your way. It's your choice. Would you rather go to a place where you can have anything you want, never get sick, never have ANY trouble at all. Or would you rather go to a place where you will burn in sulfer, get your head TORN off every day (yes, that's in the Bible), and suffer for all of eternity?

If for no other reason, follow him so you can live in happiness forever.

[Elephantitis Man]

quote:Originally posted by slickt0mmy:

I think someone who does that for you deserves a little more respect.

Thousands of humans have experienced that much pain and anguish, if not more. Are you trying to suggest we all accept him out of sentiment?

quote:God doesn't damn them, He sentences them. They damned themselves by their actions, just like the murderer condemns himself by his actions when he has to stand before the state.

He sentences them based on their nature. Humans are sinful by nature. A murderer conciously chooses to murder. Yet even desiring to sin is a sin itself. He 'sentences' us for things we cannot help.

quote:So God sacrificing Himself through self-immolation in a horrific way, even though He didn't have to, is an act of mercy on His part.

I talked about this in my earlier post. Jesus is immortal. He can be crucified a million times over and it be nothing to him. And when a majority of humanity denies Christ, do you call that a success on God's part?!

If God is so adamant about showing his love, why send people to hell? Why make hell such a terrible place? Jesus told his followers to love their enemies. Yet his father sends people to suffer for eternity everyday without thinking twice.

Furhtermore, god pins it on the people! "You've rejected my offer for salvation. You've damned yourself." No we haven't! We are endowed with rationality. We live on a planet filled with hundreds of various religions, all of them offering answers, all the followers of them pledging that their religion is the one truth. On top of that there is science fighting with them all. You think God expects us to know which one is right? He doesn't! He doesn't expect us to know, and he expects that many of us will damn ourselves and doesn't do jack shit about it!

He places us on this planet with full expectations for a majority of us to 'curse ourselves' to an eternity in hell. He either does not want to, can't, or doesn't know how, to make a difference so that everyone can know him and that none of his creations have to suffer forever. He is not just, nor merciful, nor benevolent.

[Elephantitis Man]

quote:Originally posted by slickt0mmy:

also, God COULD make Hell less painful. But he won't because the people that don't worship and follow him deserve their punishment. They were warned and they ignored him. Tough luck.

What about indigenous tribes in places like New Guinea and some tribes in Africa that have never heard of Jesus. Hell, there are probably people all over the world who go their whole lives without ever hearing the gospel. They were never warned. They never had the opportunity to 'ignore him', yet they are sent to hell anyway.

Furthermore, you seem to think hell is a justified punishment for sinners. Tell me, how is it just to grant infinite punishment for finite transgressions? Why would the most loving being in the universe lack the compassion in his heart to grant his fallen children a second chance at salvation?

quote:And yes, God cares about EVERY human being on the Earth. He loves us so much but he gives us free will to choose to follow him or not. If he didn't, nobody would truly love him, and that's what he wants.

So, you have a choice to follow Him or not. He cares about you and will guide you through life. But the moment you decide to do things your own way, he steps back and gets out of your way. It's your choice. Would you rather go to a place where you can have anything you want, never get sick, never have ANY trouble at all. Or would you rather go to a place where you will burn in sulfer, get your head TORN off every day (yes, that's in the Bible), and suffer for all of eternity?

If for no other reason, follow him so you can live in happiness forever.

Let's say I put a gun to your head. I say, "give me your wallet, or I'll kill you". I have given you free choice. You can choose to give me your wallet, or you can be shot and die. Either way, your wallet is already mine.

God puts us on earth. He says, "worship me, or I send you to hell". He has given us free choice. We can worship him or be sentenced to eternal damnation. However, whether we worship him or not, the status of our soul rests in his hands anyway.

Would a loving God hold a spiritual gun to your head?