get your torches ready--another Christian

[theophany]

I swear I won't condemn everyone on this forum to hell or thump you with the Bible. I just am interested in discussion. I realize that I'm completely outnumbered- all I ask is that you are willing to intelligently search for truth with me. Isn't that the purpose of a debate anyways? I'm afraid this will come off incredibly pretentious and I'm sorry if it does. I suppose I just wanted to introduce myself to totse, and pray to GOD that I don't drown.

My opening topic for discussion is how Christianity affronts you. What has my faith done that would create so much animosity? I’m not completely ignorant to the churches falsehood and error. I just ask that you don’t judge a faith by the religion established around it. I promise that I will do the same to not judge your own beliefs.

-Lauren

[Clarphimous]

1) The Geologist's Come-All-Ye (a folksong) by Brenna Lorenz

Come all ye lads and you will hear

About the life that we love dear,

Refrain: With our diddle-air-re-oh, falling rock away, knock it down,

Fall-di-knock-a-rock-away, me laddie-oh!

Geologists all bold and strong,

We are the subject of this song.

We get up with the rising sun

And map until the day is done.

We walk two hundred miles a day,

And study rocks along the way.

We fight our way through brush and trees

And slog through bog up to our knees.

When flies are thick, then we don't walk,

They carry us from rock to rock.

We swing our hammers with a whack,

Take home an outcrop on our backs.

Nine hundred pounds of rock or more

Is just an average daily score.

If we run out of food to eat

There's always rock beneath our feet.

There's nothing quite like granite stew

'Though graptolites are some good, too.

In the evening to the clubs we flock,

To drink Dominion and Old Stock.

Here's to your health and our health, too,

May your life prove as good to you,

As our...

[Abrahim]

Lauren, do you have MSN Messenger, AIM, or Yahoo Messenger? I want to talk to you one one of those, preferably MSN! Please!? Thank You!

[Elephantitis Man]

First, welcome to the forums. I see you're from Lee's Summit. I'm from Springfield myself, so not that far away.

Second, regarding my own personal animosity towards Christianity, I used to be a Christian. I was raised in a fundamentalist AoG/Baptist household, and bought into most Christian doctrine myself up until early this year (I'm 20). If you find that hard to believe, you can do a search on my username in this forum and there's probably still some threads in which I tried to argue for Christianity. I carry animosity towards Christians because I feel that they duped me. They duped me and they dupe themselves and each other, and their goal is to pursuade the world to surrender reason. To 'have faith' instead.

At the same time it saddens me. I look at Christians so steadfast in their faith. They say "I'm not going to let the devil tempt me! I know god exists! I can feel him! I can't imagine my life without him!" Holding onto faith in spite of contrary evidence is considered virtuous to Christians. It isn't virtuous! It's ignorance! But I remember I once thought that way. If there is such a thing as miracles, it is a miracle I was ever able to wake up and see what Christianity really is. Christianity binds people in shackles of guilt. Everyone is guilty of sin. We are all worthy of nothing but eternal damnation. Thank god's son (who is also, somehow, a part of god) for dying for a few days so that all of us wretched, evil sinners can go to heaven and worship and praise the great and mighty god forever and ever.

Blech...

So that's why you may (or already have) felt animosity towards Christianity from me. If you're curious (or have the guts) to inquire about what provoked my apostacy, feel free to ask. You claim you want the truth. Let me tell you...the truth hurts, but at the same time, it sets you free.

edit: Abrahim, you punk! I emailed you a day or two ago. Want to talk to everyone but the E-Man, eh?



[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 05-30-2006).]

[Iam]

1) A Century of Carnage

2) Intellectual Sloth

3) If It Weren't For the Judaic Faith I would Have My Foreskin, And Christianity Came From Judaism

4) Refer To #2

Those are the blanket problems I have with Christianity. If you wish for me to explain any of them, I would be happy to.

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by Elephantitis Man:

First, welcome to the forums. I see you're from Lee's Summit. I'm from Springfield myself, so not that far away.

Second, regarding my own personal animosity towards Christianity, I used to be a Christian. I was raised in a fundamentalist AoG/Baptist household, and bought into most Christian doctrine myself up until early this year (I'm 20). If you find that hard to believe, you can do a search on my username in this forum and there's probably still some threads in which I tried to argue for Christianity. I carry animosity towards Christians because I feel that they duped me. They duped me and they dupe themselves and each other, and their goal is to pursuade the world to surrender reason. To 'have faith' instead.

At the same time it saddens me. I look at Christians so steadfast in their faith. They say "I'm not going to let the devil tempt me! I know god exists! I can feel him! I can't imagine my life without him!" Holding onto faith in spite of contrary evidence is considered virtuous to Christians. It isn't virtuous! It's ignorance! But I remember I once thought that way. If there is such a thing as miracles, it is a miracle I was ever able to wake up and see what Christianity really is. Christianity binds people in shackles of guilt. Everyone is guilty of sin. We are all worthy of nothing but eternal damnation. Thank god's son (who is also, somehow, a part of god) for dying for a few days so that all of us wretched, evil sinners can go to heaven and worship and praise the great and mighty god forever and ever.

Blech...

So that's why you may (or already have) felt animosity towards Christianity from me. If you're curious (or have the guts) to inquire about what provoked my apostacy, feel free to ask. You claim you want the truth. Let me tell you...the truth hurts, but at the same time, it sets you free.

edit: Abrahim, you punk! I emailed you a day or two ago. Want to talk to everyone but the E-Man, eh?

I'VE BEEN WANTING TO TALK TO THE E-MAN SINCE HE FIRST SHONE HIS SHINEY LIGHT UPON THE SKY OF EARTH AND FOREST BLUE! But which email did you send it to?! Do you gots AIM, MSN, Yahoo?

abrahimesker , [email protected], abrahim_esker

[Abrahim]

E-Man, what offended you about our AIM convo! Did you block me!? I didn't mean to offend you!

[Elephantitis Man]

Dude, you're an ass, Abrahim.

edit: Don't waste you're time talking to Abrahim. He just fucks around with you. Acts like a serious poster on the boards; acts like a 12 year old kid on IM.

quote:E-Man, what offended you about our AIM convo! Did you block me!? I didn't mean to offend you!

Bullshit. I asked you a straighforward question and you first acted like I had mistaken you. Then you mocked me. The you typed some incomprehensible nonsense while I was trying to make out what you were saying. Then I said I was starting to get pissed and you mocked me some more.



[This message has been edited by Elephantitis Man (edited 05-30-2006).]

[Clarphimous]

He can be entertaining, though.

[theophany]

Springfield, aye? The big question now is Chiefs or Rams… answer wisely if you want to keep my respect.

It’s difficult to discuss your apostasy of the Faith unless I know your beliefs on the Bible. I am certain that you no longer accept the Word in It’s entirety. Yet, as a basis for our dialogue it is imperative that we have a point of reference in which to discuss. Therefore, what is your take on the Bible?

“They duped me and they dupe themselves and each other, and their goal is to pursuade the world to surrender reason. To 'have faith' instead.”

Easy there, remember don’t judge my faith on the religion built around it. In the past the Vatican or the organized church has made errors in their attempts to lead others to Christianity; their motives not always being sincere. Yet, in the pure essence of our once shared faith there is no brainwashing or prevarication. Reason, that which is a conclusion/justification for an idea is scattered throughout scripture. Romans 1 says, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie,” Most of Paul’s epistles are an apology for the faith. Yet in order to believe anything you must have faith that it is true. Faith can be based on reason. True Christianity calls for the search for truth, the truth of Christ and his purpose. Let us always focus on that. The rest is rhetoric.

“Holding onto faith in spite of contrary evidence is considered virtuous to Christians.”

A wise Christian considers the contrary “evidence.” And is willing to discuss it. That is virtuous. St. Peter writes “Always be prepared to give an answer to the hope that you have. Yet, do so with gentleness and respect.” So many forget the latter message in Peter’s epistle. Christians in general are terrible witnesses and it breaks my heart. It is my hope that I might reverse this stereotype. I hold fast to my faith because I trust it as truth. There is contrary arguments to any faith. I passionately advocate the search for truth. For both of us cannot be right. At least not in this situation. Either Christianity is true or it’s false, it’s that simple.

“It isn't virtuous! It's ignorance!”

Having an educated opinion and being willing to discuss it is not ignorance. Don’t be so open minded that you lose your brain. Is staying steadfast to a faith ignorant? It only is when you do not understand both your viewpoint and the antithesis of it.

“Christianity binds people in shackles of guilt. Everyone is guilty of sin. We are all worthy of nothing but eternal damnation.”

Christianity liberates us from guilt! If we are saved then we are no longer guilty. We are by nature sinful, true, but Christ forgives us. Isn’t that the gospel message?

:So that's why you may (or already have) felt animosity towards Christianity from me. If you're curious (or have the guts) to inquire about what provoked my apostacy, feel free to ask. You claim you want the truth. Let me tell you...the truth hurts, but at the same time, it sets you free.”

Truth is my passion. I have the guts, :flexes: to continue this discussion. Please, enlighten me with the truth.

Thank you for responding,

-Lauren

p.s I may not respond tomorrow. (Art Studio) I promise I will reply as soon as possible.





[This message has been edited by theophany (edited 05-30-2006).]