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Go Back   Community > Society > My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God

My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God For discussing any and all religious viewpoints. Intolerance will not be tolerated. Keeping your sense of humor is required. Posting messages about theological paradoxes is encouraged.

 
 
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Old 2007-01-10, 05:45
Oculus Oculus is offline
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What follows is a quick write up i did for a local group of Reagan lovin', WWJD wearin', "W" supportin' "christians."

Jesus Christ: Conservative or Liberal?

A short time ago I decided to take on the investigation of answering question on whether Jesus Christ would agree with more of the standpoints of the modern American left or that of the modern American right. I attempted to go about the procedure in a strictly scientific and unbiased way. Therefore I set these rules ahead of time.

1. Ten issues that liberals and conservatives constantly disagree about would be researched in the gospels.

2. The evidence must come from Jesus himself. This means that only the four gospels can be used and then only the words or actions of Jesus himself.

3. The quotes used from the bible must directly involve the issue at hand. Therefore I could not use the quote "Jesus liked to collect teddy bears" to validate the point that 'Jesus wanted grizzly bears to be placed on the endangered species list.'

4. If an issue is not directly addressed, the issue must be placed in the 'Undecided' category.

5. If the issues that aligned with Jesus' stated beliefs were dominantly sided with one of the political ideologies (my personal number was set at four degrees of separation, but that is completely subjective and for my personal gratification. Feel free to set your own.) then, from empirical evidence, Jesus could be described as having the beliefs of a modern American liberal or modern American conservative.

6. In the event of a tie (I am for some stupid aesthetic reason using the even number of ten), or the degree of separation is three or less then Jesus will be described as a moderate.



The Issues (in no particular order):

1. The Environment

There is no biblical teaching concerning environmentalism, much less quotes directly from Jesus. This is understandable because they did not have coal burning refineries polluting their air and drinking water at the turn of the common era. Logical deduction can reason that God would not want his creations destroyed and contaminated by pollution, but there is no evidence of this in the bible. Therefore, this issue is Undecided.

2. Economy

For this issue the fight is basically a focus on capitalism. Would Jesus want us to invest capital to make gains for ourselves? Let’s refer to Matthew 6:24 “Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” Alright, what is mammon? Mammon is used in the New Testament to describe material wealth or greed. Now, let us look at capitalism. Capitalism is the system of trade where a free market is incorporated to allow Adam Smith’s ‘invisible hand’ to guide the economy. That invisible hand is a metaphor showing how those who seek wealth by following their individual self-interest will inadvertently stimulate the economy. For example, the businesses will use competition to entice the consumer to buy from them. So, through greed, capitalism grows. That sounds a little against the teaching of not loving money. Therefore, I deduce that Jesus would not take kindly to a capitalistic market. On the topic of economics, the nod goes to the Liberals.

3. Abortion

I found, startling enough, only one instance of abortion being directly mentioned in the bible. It was in exodus 21:22 “If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely, or she has a miscarriage, but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.” It states that if a miscarriage were to happen it would be “no serious injury.” An interesting digression, but not from the gospels, and therefore Undecided.

4. Taxation

In Matt 17:24-30 we see that Jesus, in fact, pays taxes. “After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, "Doesn't your teacher pay the tax?" "Yes, he does," he replied” From this we learn that Christ did not live outside of the laws of taxation, and neither should we. Whether or not there should be a tax is not addressed, but from his actions we see that Christ paid taxes.. ..until: Mark 12:17 says “Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.” Therefore, on the issue of taxation, Jesus sided more with the Liberal point-of-view.

5. The Death Penalty

This is a very hotly contested issue. For the pro-capital punishment side of the argument we can see that Jesus does condone the death penalty for denying that he is the son of God. Luke 19:27 states: “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” This crime, of course, lines up with what is known as the ‘unforgivable sin’ or denying one of the members of the holy trinity. It is not clear whether or not crimes of the world would qualify for this punishment. On the other side of the argument, we see the infamous story which gives us the “those without sin, cast the first stone” (matt 23) quote. From inference we can deduce many things from the crucifixion, biblical opinions in a system which has accidentally put to death the innocent, and other such articles of debate, but these are just inferences. From the evidence given, I think that the issue is pretty much stalemated, so to be safe I go with Undecided.

Alright, we are halfway done, let’s see the cumulative scores:

Undecided: 3

Liberal: 2

Conservative: 0



6. Warfare

Jesus’ stance on warfare can be seen in both Matt and Luke. First Matt 26:52 “"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” The statement “put your sword back in its place” clearly states that he wanted no violence during his arresting. This is further reinforced by the statement in Luke 3:14 “Do violence to no man..” I believe that this is proof enough that Jesus would want us, given the opportunity, to use diplomacy and pacifism in all occasions. Therefore this issue goes to the side of the Liberal.

7. Welfare

The welfare system is to help the poor and those who cannot help themselves. Besides the fact that this is one of the most repeated actions of Jesus, I will give a few examples. Jesus himself condemned people who did not help the poor. “"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'“ (Matt 25:41-42). I believe that if Jesus condemned a person to hell for not helping the poor, he would not frown upon the welfare system. He would perhaps frown on the poor way it is being handled, but not the idea in itself. On this issue, Jesus was definitely a Liberal.

8. Free Healthcare

Before we get into the meat of this, I wish to note that the conservatives oppose free healthcare because privatized healthcare is a very prosperous business-- refer to issue #2 for more on this. Now, for the direct assessment of this issue. Jesus constantly healed people and looked for no reimbursement. I feel that there are so many instances of this that I need not source them here. True, this was not his profession and he did not use this as his major source of income. Doctors in a free healthcare society, however, do not go unpaid. In the majority of Europe and in Canada doctors are paid a good wage for the work that they do, but from the government, not those that they heal. When privatized healthcare comes into play the rich begin to receive better healthcare than the impoverished who receive little or none at all. This is obviously against many actions and teachings of Jesus. Therefore this issue goes to the Liberals.

9. Homosexual Marriage

Jesus never spoke directly about homosexual marriage. He did speak of marriage (as many neo-cons quote) in Matt 19:4, but this was simply talking about divorce, not on the issue of whether or not homosexual marriage is a sin. Furthermore, in the old testament, homosexual sex, not marriage, was condemned.. ..but I digress again. So, since Jesus never directly spoke of this, it is Undecided.

10. Separation of Church and State

This issue is concerning whether or not the issues of the church should be dictated by the state, or vice versa. Jesus said in John 18:36 that “My kingdom is not of this world..” While this can be taken symbolically many ways it cannot be used as evidence, but I personally believe that this dictates the separation of church and state. Now, let’s look again at Mark 12:17 “Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.” This can be seen as a separation of church and state as well, but since it is directly concerned with taxes and taxes only, we must leave this at Undecided.

So the final tally is:

Undecided: 5

Conservative: 0

Liberal: 5



There you have it. After scientific study and examination of the gospels, it is proven that Jesus would be more accurately associated with the beliefs of the modern American liberal than that of the conservative.. ..much less those of the neo-cons.

~frank



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