Suicide

[Punk_Rocker_22]

Religiously speaking, if you pay someone to kill you, is that still suicide?

[i poop in your cereal]

I guess it depends on your religion.

[Punk_Rocker_22]

Originally Posted by i poop in your cereal

I guess it depends on your religion.

I'm asking about christianity

[naive_wisdom]

Err, simply, in terms of Catholicism, yes.

"Suicide is the act of one who causes his own death, either by positively destroying his own life, as by inflicting on himself a mortal wound or injury, or by omitting to do what is necessary to escape death..."

But however the concept of positive and indirect/direct suicide is a bit more confusing. This is quoted from Catholic Encyclopaedia (New York, 1912)...


Positive and Direct Suicide

Positive and direct suicide perpetrated without God's consent always constitutes a grave injustice towards Him. To destroy a thing is to dispose of it as an absolute master and to act as one having full and independent dominion over it; but man does not possess this full and independent dominion over his life, since to be an owner one must be superior to his property. God has reserved to himself direct dominion over life; He is the owner of its substance and He has given man only the serviceable dominion, the right of use, with the charge of protecting and preserving the substance, that is, life itself. Consequently suicide is an attempt against the dominion and right of ownership of the Creator. To this injustice is added a serious offence against the charity which man owes to himself, since by his act he deprives himself of the greatest good in his possession and the possibility of attaining his final end. Moreover, the sin may be aggravated by circumstances, such as failure in conjugal, paternal, or filial piety, failure in justice or charity, if by taking his life one eludes existing obligations of justice or acts of charity, which he could and should perform. That suicide is unlawful is the teaching of Holy Scripture and of the Church, which condemns the act as a most atrocious crime and, in hatred of the sin and to arouse the horror of its children, denies the suicide Christian burial. Moreover, suicide is directly opposed to the most powerful and invincible tendency of every creature and especially of man, the preservation of life. Finally, for a sane man deliberately to take his own life, he must, as a general rule, first have annihilated in himself all that he possessed of spiritual life, since suicide is in absolute contradiction to everything that the Christian religion teaches us as to the end and object of life and, except in cases of insanity, is usually the natural termination of a life of disorder, weakness, and cowardice.

The reason we have advanced to prove the malice of a suicide, namely, God's right and dominion, likewise justifies the modification of the general principle: God being the master of our life He may with His own consent remove from suicide whatever constitutes its disorder. Thus do some authorities justify the conduct of certain saints, who, impelled by the desire of martyrdom and especially to protect their chastity did not wait for their executioners to put them to death, but sought it in one manner or other themselves; nevertheless, the Divine will should be certain and clearly manifested in each particular case.

The question is asked: Can one who is condemned to death kill himself if ordered to do so by the judge? Some authors answer this question in the affirmative, basing their argument on the right which society possesses to punish certain malefactors with death and to commission any executioner, hence also the malefactor himself, to carry out the sentence. We share the most widely accepted opinion, that this practice, prevalent in certain countries of the East, is not lawful. Vindictive justice -- and for that matter all justice -- requires a distinction between the subject of a right and that of a duty, hence in the present case between the one who punishes and the one who is punished. Finally, the same principle which forbids anyone to personally compass his own death also forbids him to advise, direct, or command, with the direct intention of suicide, that another should slay him.

Positive and Indirect Suicide

Positive but indirect suicide committed without Divine consent is also unlawful unless, everything considered, there is sufficient reason for doing what will cause death to follow. Thus, it is not a sin, but an act of exalted virtue, to go into savage lands to preach the Gospel, or to the bedside of the plague stricken, to minister to them, although they who do so have before them the prospect of inevitable and speedy death; nor is it a sin for workmen in the discharge of duties to climb on roofs and buildings, thus exposing themselves to danger of death, etc. All this is lawful precisely because the act itself is good and upright, for in theory the persons in question have not in view either as end or means the evil result, that is, death, that will follow, and, moreover, if there be an evil result it is largely compensated for by the good and useful result which they seek. On the other hand there is sin in exposing oneself to danger of death to display courage, to win a wager, etc., because in all these cases the end does not in any way compensate for the danger of death that is run. To judge whether or not there is sufficient reason for an act which will apparently be followed by death, all the circumstances must be weighed, namely, the importance of the good result, the greater or less certainty of its being attained, the greater or less danger of death, etc., all questions which may in a specific case be very difficult to solve.


I don't know about other denominations, but it seems there can be an acceptability of suicide within the Catholic faith, as long as it conforms to their doctrine.

[---Beany---]

I say Yes.
It's still your choice to end your life and taking the necessary actions to make it happen.

[ArmsMerchant]

Forget organized religion for a moment, and think logically.

Most theists agree that our life and free will are gifts from God. Gifts, not some sort of loan with strings attached. And like any other gift, what we choose to do with that gift is up to us. If--for whatever reason and by whatever means--we choose to end our current earthly existence, we are still not ending our life--only making a transition, since life is eternal.

The whole Catholic quote is a wonderful example of how the priesthood uses religion as a means of maintaining power and fomenting fear among the flock.

Or as a friend of mine once put it "organized religion is crowd control."

[naive_wisdom]

Originally Posted by ArmsMerchant

Most theists agree that our life and free will are gifts from God. Gifts, not some sort of loan with strings attached. And like any other gift, what we choose to do with that gift is up to us. If--for whatever reason and by whatever means--we choose to end our current earthly existence, we are still not ending our life--only making a transition, since life is eternal.

Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honour God with your body. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20) Standard Christian argument against your 'own' body and suicide.


And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. (Genesis 9:5) - Seen by Jews as law against suicide.

O you who believe! Do not consume your wealth in the wrong way-rather through trade mutually agreed to, and do not kill yourselves. Surely God is Merciful toward you. (Koran, 4:29) - prophetically taken to be against suicide.


Furthermore, all the three big religions forbid murder (I know there are 'special cases'), and even orders to kill murderers. One suspects that if someone killed themselves (murder), then as humans couldn't kill them, God, Allah, or Yhwh would then exact punishment.


And with regards to 'life is eternal', can you elaborate?

[Anirak]

Originally Posted by naive_wisdom

You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honour God with your body. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

Slave morality at it's best. Despicable.

[naive_wisdom]

Originally Posted by Anirak

Slave morality at it's best. Despicable.

I didn't make the rules, and I sure as Hell (pun intended) don't follow them.

[Xerxes35]

Originally Posted by Punk_Rocker_22

Religiously speaking, if you pay someone to kill you, is that still suicide?

LOL dumbfuck. Just kill yourself you religious nutball.