Do history classes change to be biased for the country they are taught in?

[flat_head_screwdriver]

For example:
What would German kids learn in their history classes?
"Ok kids, the second world war is a bit of a touchy issue here, so I need you to skip the next hundred pages of your textbook."
OR "So what I am saying, kids, is that the country you live in committed massive genocide."

I have been to the Hiroshima Peace Park in Japan, and while it is a moving place, the memorial museum they have there is, understandably, completely biased towards themselves. It gives the image of, "Oh we were just here, and we were nuked, and lots of us died." But does not even attempt to answer the question of WHY they were nuked. Would the Japanese youth be aware of their ancestors war crimes?

[Martian Luger King]

Unfortunately so, and anyone who has read a bit in to the subject of education in Japan understands their own denial/refusal of admittance of the war crimes of Unit 731 as well as other atrocities. Likewise, in Turkey you have the denial of the Armenian genocide. Unfortunately education is generally worthless and meaningless in most societies. It really doesn't matter if you have a phD or if you eat out of a dumpster, I do not look at these individuals as any different as far as knowledge is concerned because universities are almost entirely flawed and that extends over to every single subject not just world history. I'd like to add that history is a worthless cause.

[fux0rz]

Originally Posted by Martian Luger King

Unfortunately so, and anyone who has read a bit in to the subject of education in Japan understands their own denial/refusal of admittance of the war crimes of Unit 731 as well as other atrocities. Likewise, in Turkey you have the denial of the Armenian genocide. Unfortunately education is generally worthless and meaningless in most societies. It really doesn't matter if you have a phD or if you eat out of a dumpster, I do not look at these individuals as any different as far as knowledge is concerned because universities are almost entirely flawed and that extends over to every single subject not just world history. I'd like to add that history is a worthless cause.

Ah how humanity has succeeded!

[Run Screaming]

Of course I didn't go to school in those countries. But my Japanese wife was very embarrassed about Japan's Imperial history.

The Germans and the Japanese have always had a tendency to obey authority without questioning, and look what hot water they got into. Let it be a lesson.

[patton]

Well at least in Germany, they seem to be very ashamed of their history. For example, saying "zieg heil" or making the motion to heil Hitler is an offense punishable by up to a few years in prison, except for educational purposes.

So maybe they do educate German children on the war crimes commited by their country in the past.

I know the education in America is certainly moving towards being more and more anti-American. I've been asked over the years to write about how horrible the Americans were to do things like the internment of the Japanese, the red scare and even the draft. I've also been asked to take the position that nationalism and ethnocentrism are always bad things. Of course I've always refused and instead chose to voice my own beliefs (much to the dismay of my idiotic teachers who could do nothing more than to repeat the lines they heard in overly-liberal teacher's college) It seems to me like educators in America only want to focus on the flaws of our country and magnify them, rather than teach our students about how great a country it truly is.
Germany and Japan probably aren't as absurdly "progressively" liberal as America, however if my experience in this country is any sign as to the direction that the world is moving in, I'd say maybe the German and Japanese children do learn about their countries rather ugly history.

[fux0rz]

Originally Posted by flat_head_screwdriver

For example:
What would German kids learn in their history classes?
"Ok kids, the second world war is a bit of a touchy issue here, so I need you to skip the next hundred pages of your textbook."
OR "So what I am saying, kids, is that the country you live in committed massive genocide."

I have been to the Hiroshima Peace Park in Japan, and while it is a moving place, the memorial museum they have there is, understandably, completely biased towards themselves. It gives the image of, "Oh we were just here, and we were nuked, and lots of us died." But does not even attempt to answer the question of WHY they were nuked. Would the Japanese youth be aware of their ancestors war crimes?

Hey man at least the Germans aren't DENYING the holocaust, I mean that is at least worth something.

[JustAnotherAsshole]

Originally Posted by patton

Well at least in Germany, they seem to be very ashamed of their history. For example, saying "zieg heil" or making the motion to heil Hitler is an offense punishable by up to a few years in prison, except for educational purposes.

Perhaps because that's something to be ashamed about? Also, I'd be willing to challenge you on people going to prison for that in Germany. Proof, please?

So maybe they do educate German children on the war crimes commited by their country in the past.

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

The Nazi holocaust started with little, insignificant laws and acts of tolerated discrimination against minorities.

If you don't know how it all starts, it's easy to let it happen again.

I know the education in America is certainly moving towards being more and more anti-American. I've been asked over the years to write about how horrible the Americans were to do things like the internment of the Japanese, the red scare and even the draft. I've also been asked to take the position that nationalism and ethnocentrism are always bad things. Of course I've always refused and instead chose to voice my own beliefs (much to the dismay of my idiotic teachers who could do nothing more than to repeat the lines they heard in overly-liberal teacher's college) It seems to me like educators in America only want to focus on the flaws of our country and magnify them, rather than teach our students about how great a country it truly is.

Learning about America's shitty, horrible actions in the past isn't Anti-American, it's useful. It keeps people aware of how atrocities occur, how they're explained to the people as not so bad and necessary, and how to avoid allowing them to happen.

Also, when I was in school, teachers that say over opinionated or questionable things, they usually get ratted on by a student who disagrees.

School isn't for teaching patriotism, it's for teaching. History class shouldn't be biased, it should be (And usually is) factual.

I don't think too many sound-minded people would believe that America never does any good things. We clearly have.

Germany and Japan probably aren't as absurdly "progressively" liberal as America, however if my experience in this country is any sign as to the direction that the world is moving in, I'd say maybe the German and Japanese children do learn about their countries rather ugly history.

I'd be willing to say that Germany and Japan are at least as "absurdly liberal" as America. Remember, tons of people in Europe (And quite possibly Japan) laugh at us for being what they see as Backward for being so conservative.

[lostmyface]

it depends what level the courses are. at a primary/middle/highschool level, yes. the course material is incredibly biased towards the country you live in. this is because the education system (at this level) is not so much for education as it is for forming a smooth functioning society. so that is what you learn, only what will help in the smooth functioning of your society.thankfully history is open to interpretations based on cultural norms at the time, so over time our views on the subject at hand can change.

at the university level an independent study level i would say history is only as biased as you wish it to be. again the great thing about history is that it is subject to reinterpretation. so the more you read, the more ideas you are exposed to, an the closer you get to YOUR understanding of events.


tl/dr

think for your self

[patton]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherAsshole

Perhaps because that's something to be ashamed about? Also, I'd be willing to challenge you on people going to prison for that in Germany. Proof, please?

Of course it's something to be ashamed of, I didn't mean to imply in my previous post that it'd be wrong for Germans to learn about their countries history, or that the Holocaust wasn't really all that bad, I was simply using the example of how in America the education system has no problem with pointing out the flaws in American history, and not only do they have no problem with pointing them out, but they exaggerate them and force students to take an anti-American position.

And as for my source on that I just got that from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieg_heil
Not the most credible I know, but it's certainly believable.

Learning about America's shitty, horrible actions in the past isn't Anti-American, it's useful. It keeps people aware of how atrocities occur, how they're explained to the people as not so bad and necessary, and how to avoid allowing them to happen.

Also, when I was in school, teachers that say over opinionated or questionable things, they usually get ratted on by a student who disagrees.

School isn't for teaching patriotism, it's for teaching. History class shouldn't be biased, it should be (And usually is) factual.

I don't think too many sound-minded people would believe that America never does any good things. We clearly have.

I never said that we shouldn't learn about the internment of the Japanese, it's just the way in which they are taught they annoys me. Students were expected to take the position that America was outright wrong and it was a horrible thing to do. In both the internment and the red scare, there WERE legitimate reasons. In our schools today, those reasons aren't taught, we are just taught that America was wrong and evil.

This is specifically why I didn't use slavery as an example. In the case of slavery, America certainly wasn't at all justified and almost no one believes they were. So it's a lot more understandable to teach slavery with a mindset that America was definitely wrong and its actions were completely unjustifiable.

However in the cases of the internment, the red scare, and ESPECIALLY the draft, the other side is a reasonable position to take. It is not so absurd to say that the country was safer after interning the japanese, arresting all the commies or drafting innocent high schoolers into the army. It is completely absurd for any school (especially a public school like the ones I attended) to marginalize a reasonable political position.

[JustAnotherAsshole]

Originally Posted by patton

Of course it's something to be ashamed of, I didn't mean to imply in my previous post that it'd be wrong for Germans to learn about their countries history, or that the Holocaust wasn't really all that bad, I was simply using the example of how in America the education system has no problem with pointing out the flaws in American history, and not only do they have no problem with pointing them out, but they exaggerate them and force students to take an anti-American position.

America's shitty actions don't need a whole lot of exaggeration. We killed Millions of native Americans and took their land, we dropped Atomic Bombs on cities, etc, etc.

People see the good that a country does all the fucking time, but it's important to pay more attention to the bad. If people are very critical of their countries actions, chances are, the country will do less stupid, shitty things.

And as for my source on that I just got that from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieg_heil
Not the most credible I know, but it's certainly believable.

Well, god damn.

I never said that we shouldn't learn about the internment of the Japanese, it's just the way in which they are taught they annoys me. Students were expected to take the position that America was outright wrong and it was a horrible thing to do.

It was wrong. You lock up criminals and actual dangerous people, not entire groups.

In both the internment and the red scare, there WERE legitimate reasons. In our schools today, those reasons aren't taught, we are just taught that America was wrong and evil.

The internment was fucking stupid because we locked up Japanese and German-Americans simply because they were German and Japanese.

That would be like (No different, actually) locking up Iraqi-Americans during the two Gulf Wars.

This is specifically why I didn't use slavery as an example. In the case of slavery, America certainly wasn't at all justified and almost no one believes they were. So it's a lot more understandable to teach slavery with a mindset that America was definitely wrong and its actions were completely unjustifiable.

Agreed.

However in the cases of the internment, the red scare,and ESPECIALLY the draft the other side is a reasonable position to take.

The Red-Scare was fucking stupid, the Interment of the Japanese (And Germans) in America during the War was fucking stupid, and the Draft is just a draft. There's nothing wrong about it. It's a way of getting soldiers when necessary.

It is not so absurd to say that the country was safer after interning the japanese, arresting all the commies or drafting innocent high schoolers into the army. It is completely absurd for any school (especially a public school like the ones I attended) to marginalize a reasonable political position.

So the country was safer because we locked up commies? Would the country be safer if we locked up commies now? Would the country be safer if we locked up Iraqis, or even Muslims now?

I agree that a biased school is a fucking stupid one, but things like the Red-Scare and the German/Japanese internment camps were just based out of Fear. People do stupid shit when they're scared.