Copy paste time!
The following are a series of posts in a forum, these posts are by Abrahim Esker
Well before you kill this beast, let me tell you one thing: There is no being in the image of man nor any being that created every thing. There is no Diety or God save one, One so obvious that it remains a mystery to most.
People look for a God in the sky, in the Earth, some kind of Image to place faith in, an idea. Yet every single day they meet the only True God, and they deem themselves self sufficient of it, yet they are completely dependant on it.
They want some God that is within the universe that floats around on a magical cloud and controls the universe with a chessboard. They can find that in their minds. Yet that is not The True God I speak of. Any of you can guess what this True God is, the Only God, one that completely has you under its controls through its limitations on you. You can not even think a single thought unless that thought is an available option to you, or do anything without it. You live with it, sleep with it, and interact with it in waking and in sleep. What is it?
God is not some man in the sky, nor will ever be, nor will any thing you can see that you do not already see be your God.
Your God is one God, what we are all made of, exist within, and are completely dependant on.
God is Reality. The Ultimate Reality. The Reality we exist within, interact with, are made of, where all possible perceptions of all possible things can occur, if the option for the thought is not available, you can't think it. The System is smooth, flawless, perfect, without Glitches.
People question the "control" of God without seeing how in fact they are completely limited and dependant on Reality. They look for something within Reality, when Reality itself is The Only God.
I don't only mean objective physical reality, I mean the subjective reality too, what we can think, a superimposed hallucinatory image, what matter is it made of? The actual image is not made of any matter, yet it is still an option within this Reality, or else you wouldn't be able to think it.
God is The Reality, there is no God but this. People say they will believe when they see some large being come down from the sky? Yet any large being that may come down from the sky is within reality, made of reality, limited by reality, thus Reality remains the True and Ultimate God.
The Ultimate Reality is where we exist, where this universe is, essentially it is the only thing, that ever was or will be.
Nothing does not exist, what I mean to say as, True, Absolute Nothing, does not exist, as something (this) can not come from Nothing. Nothing always remains as Nothing, it has no capability to manifest.
On the other hand, Ultimate Reality has always existed, there is nothing beyond it, it is all there is and ever was, it is the manifestor of all possibilities, all realities, including this one.
It is "alive" if it were dead, inactive, then so too would we be non active, incapable, non existant, All things are in motion constantly.
God is The Reality, all things are part of the Reality, made up of the Reality, dependant on the Reality. You can call it anything, from God, Allah, The Tao, The Force, The Brahman, its one thing, all of the above were words to describe it but some ended up humanizing it. It is not a human, it has no form, it is infinite, it has no limits, it is the only power, the ultimate power.
Why would one deny evolution and the processes of this universe? They are made manifest and clear. But to deny Reality would be the mistake, and Reality is the only God, the Ultimate God. The sustainer of Worlds, the Supreme "King", The Provider of all things.
Prove to me Reality does not exist? You can't without blatant denial of yourself and all that is within and without you. Reality is God, the Only God. We are all within it, and Nothing is without it.
Originally posted by truckfixr:
I can agree with you up to a point. Reality exists. Beyond that, you are stretching things a bit.
Reality is not a sentient being, thus it honestly cannot qualify as being a God. You're calling it so is based on your opinion/belief. Not on emperical evidence.
I'm not saying it is sentient in the way we are sentient:
Here is the definition from
www.dictionary.com
sen·tient ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snshnt, -sh-nt)
adj.
Having sense perception; conscious: “The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage” (T.E. Lawrence).
Experiencing sensation or feeling.
____________________________________________
Everything is made of Reality, including our feelings, and our ability to be sentient. Everything is within Reality, everything is in constant motion. Reality is not "dead" or else that would mean it would be nothing and not exist at all, nor would any thing manifest, exist, or manipulate, or even have a plain on which to exist, nor would or could anything manifest, appear or even move.
Reality is "Alive"
a·live ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-lv)
adj.
Having life; living. See Synonyms at living.
In existence or operation; active: keep your hopes alive.
Full of living or moving things; abounding: a pool alive with trout.
Full of activity or animation; lively: a face alive with mischief.
Main Entry: alive
Pronunciation: &-'lIv
Function: adjective
: having life : not dead or inanimate
Clearly Reality is Animate, we and everything is proof of this.
Ultimate Reality is "Aware" of all things existing within it, the proof of this is in the manifestation of all the available possibilities for us and our ability to execute them, furthermore our personal Awareness being proof of "Reality posessing Awareness". Besides all that, if Reality were not "Aware" those things it is "Unaware" of would not exist.
Aware
adj 1: (sometimes followed by `of') having or showing realization
We and everything around us are the Realization of Reality.
re·al·i·za·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-l-zshn)
n.
The act of realizing or the condition of being realized.
The result of realizing.
Manifestation:
man·i·fes·ta·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mn-f-stshn)
n.
The act of manifesting.
The state of being manifested.
An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something: A high fever is an early manifestation of the disease.
man·i·fes·ta·tion (mn-f-stshn)
n.
An indication of the existence, reality, or presence of something...
Main Entry: man·i·fes·ta·tion
Pronunciation: "man-&-f&-'stA-sh&n, -"fes-
Function: noun
: a perceptible, outward, or visible expression
There is your "Creation" The Manifestation of this Reality which is within Ultimate Reality, which is the Manifestor. To call it the "Manifestor" is not innacurate as clearly, we are manifest and here to prove it.
The funny thing is "We are witnesses unto ourselves" what I mean to say is "we are the proof against ourselves" So is everything else!
So to Recap, We and All that is, ever will be, ever was, ever can or will be, in this or any other reality, belongs within Ultimate Reality. Ultimate Reality is what we are "Manifest" within. There is no Diety or God greater or mightier than this, and it is not a humanoid or anything of the sort, nor does it operate or think like us, it is infinite, the proof of its life is in the movement of all things, the proof of its awareness is in our being manifest. If it did not "know" we would be "dead" or inactive in it. know ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n)
v. knew, (n, ny) known, (nn) know·ing, knows
v. tr.
To perceive directly; grasp in the mind with clarity or certainty.
To regard as true beyond doubt: I know she won't fail.
To have a practical understanding of, as through experience; be skilled in: knows how to cook.
dead ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dd)
adj. dead·er, dead·est
No longer in existence, use, or operation.
We are the proof amazingly, yet we look everywhere for something that doesn't exist, when "God" is right infront of us, we are operating through it. We are sufficient proof of it. The Ultimate Reality, we are within it, it is without us, self sufficient, be it that we exist or not, it is ever living, before and after. Call it what satisfies you, it is one undeniable thing, to deny it is to Deny the Truth, Yourselves, The Reality which you exist within.
ex·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zst)
intr.v. ex·ist·ed, ex·ist·ing, ex·ists
To have actual being; be real.
It is one God that has appeared throughout history, constantly mutated by the minds of men which belong to it completely, for their form to the possible thoughts they can possibly think. Even the most ancient hunter gatherer societies have this most ancient concept ingrained into their personal religions, even so, athiests deny it due to their definitions of God which they base of the corruptions of humans. God is and has always been "The Ultimate Reality" Never has "God" been a man in the sky, some being with a form, or anything possible within Ultimate Reality because it, itself is Ultimate Reality and all things are within it, not without it.
Its been called many things, though it is one thing, and so too are we, who all belong in it and exist only within it and because of it, are one with it, yet we deem ourselves self sufficient, we are completely dependant. We are under its controls by its limitations. It is beneficent in its gamut of options which it has bestowed us, to do what we wish, and all things having their cause and effect.
People claim that this world is IMPERFECT, do they see glitches? Does your computer screen suddenly dissapear forever with no explanation right before your eyes? The System is Perfect, This Reality is Perfect, Ultimate Reality is Perfect, if it is incapable of one thing it is Imperfection, as Imperfection is Nothing, it can not manifest.
All Religions are an attempt to explain this truth in a way people can understand. Many get close. Christianity tries in its own way but its humanizations mislead.
The first beliefs understood this, it was understood all was a part of Reality, then each part, to explain the phenomena was accounted a spirit of action, originally accepted as part of the One, but later misrepresented through alagory and explanation as its own part, and all beliefs have this core, as does human existence, since it is undeniable.
Each Religion from the most ancient to the new says it in their own Way and tries to make the message clear. It is one Message. There is only One Religion.
The only dispute and matter of "Faith" should be in an afterlife or ressurection.
But even so, that concept is there, once again reflecting ultimate Truth, that to everything there is a Cycle, even so to this universe, it expands and will collapse and restart. The Night and the Day and the Night and the Day. The land grows dry and dead and then rains bring out the life again. A million metaphors to represent the ultimate cycles within Reality.
Please read the above post if you havent!
Reality is obviously not aware in the way we are but Reality is aware, the fact that we exist being that awareness manifest. If not we would not exist, but true that to us sounds humanization, but I don't mean it that way AT ALL.
en·ti·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-t)
n. pl. en·ti·ties
Something that exists as a particular and discrete unit: Persons and corporations are equivalent entities under the law.
The fact of existence; being.
The existence of something considered apart from its properties.
If anything, in that case, Reality would be the only Entity, what we all exist within, what only exists, what we are all made of. That would only be according to definition 2 of the word. In any case, everything is within and part of one thing, and that is Reality, it is infinite, essentially it is all there is.
in·fi·nite ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nf-nt)
adj.
Having no boundaries or limits.
Immeasurably great or large; boundless: infinite patience; a discovery of infinite importance.
Mathematics.
Existing beyond or being greater than any arbitrarily large value.
Unlimited in spatial extent: a line of infinite length.
Of or relating to a set capable of being put into one-to-one correspondence with a proper subset of itself.
I thought it was relevant since the word Manifestation was used, Creationists can simply say that the Bible uses metaphor to teach in the case of the story of our creation. Then they can take science as the fact, the story as the metaphor representing the science. I don't know why they would defend something untrue when they can just as easy take it as metaphor.
I'd LOVE to talk to you on an IM program! Which one do you use? I am MSN, AIM, and Yahoo. Which do you use? How can I add you?
Yeah I didn't understand what the phycedelics was reffering to:
did you mean:
psy·che·del·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sk-dlk)
adj.
Of, characterized by, or generating hallucinations, distortions of perception, altered states of awareness, and occasionally states resembling psychosis.
Hope to see you soon on one of the IM's I'll add you, or you could add me at
[email protected] , abrahimesker , or
[email protected]
Originally posted by truckfixr:
We are aware. Reality is not.
Consider this. If all life in the universe were to cease to exist, any and all awareness would also cease to exist. Reality would remain. There would simply be no one to observe.
If we are Aware, Reality "posesses" Awareness. If it did not, we would not be Aware. Its language trickery maybe, but its literal too.
You are right about the second part, Reality would remain.
Most of what happened yesterday is unknown and unremembered, unverifiable, unproveable.
Were we created?
Were we manifested?
Were we molded by evolution?
Why can't people understand whatever the case, they are all the same, and the proof is that we are here.
We are manifestations, manifested within Reality and this Universe, and molded/created by evolution, a process which was originally manifested as a possibility within Reality and this Universe. The argument goes into semantics, language, and philosophy. There is only One God worthy of Worship, Understanding, Submission. There is no Being within this Universe or outside it worthy of worship save the one thing.
The one thing has been described in a billion ways over history by different people, and it is always an attempt to explain the one thing which EVERYONE knows willingly or unwillingly. There is no Elephant, Bearded man, Spirit Being, or any other explanation of the One thing.
The One Thing is not seperate from anything, or any of us, we are within it, a part of it, manifested by it, within it, and are completely dependant on it.
Some call it "What is Real" some give it other images and forms, thus limiting it in peoples minds and ruining the original concept.
Hinduism, Taoism, Islam, they all talk about the one thing and describe it in various fashions. Even Zoroastrianism, even Athiests can't deny the One Thing, they all call it by different names, it has no name save a name we give it.
Even the oldest religions, the most ancient hunter gatherer beliefs try to describe this one thing and mention it in their various fashions.
I call it "Reality" what encompasses all of us, objective, subjective.
Hindu's call it brahma (nominative singular), brahman (stem) (neuter[1] gender) means the concept of the Supreme transcendent and immanent Reality or the One Godhead or Cosmic Spirit in Hinduism; this is discussed below.
The Vedas depict Brahman as the Ultimate Reality, the Absolute or Universal Soul (Paramātman) [6]. It is the ultimate principle who is without a beginning, without an end, who is hidden in all and who is the cause, source, material and effect of all creation known, unknown and yet to happen in the entire universe.
Bhuddists include this belief as well as other religions that have sprung from Hinduism.
"Ishvara (ईश्वर in devanagari script, pronunciation /ī:sh vərə/), also variously transliterated (romanized) as Īshvara, Īshwara, Īshwar, Īśvara, etc. (Sanskrit: "the Supreme Lord, and hence the Cosmic Controller") is a Hindu philosophical concept of God meaning that entity or the Supreme Being which is the lord and the ruler of everything. It is also used in Buddhism to mean 'lord' or 'master', eg, Avalokiteshvara."
The same goes for "The Tao" in Taoism.
The same with "Allah" in Islam, it is a description of Ultimate Reality.
Everyone from the beginning of our attempts to explain things, have been attempting to explain one thing, which we exist within, interact with, are controlled by, has an infinite potential of aspects (manifestations) but is One, call it what you want, Reality, Tao, The Brahman, Allah, God. It is one thing, and it is One. Nothing is outside of Reality, it is infinite and all encompassing, the most powerful thing. No big man in the sky, beast, or alien creature is worthy of Worship, the most powerful thing is this Reality. It is one Religion, it has always been one Religion, people have tried to describe one thing over and over and people tend to misunderstand it over and over again: They seek what can only exist within their minds, and EVEN THAT is within the bounds of the One Reality, The Ultimate Reality.
"Pantheism (Greek: pan = all and Theos = God) literally means "God is All" and "All is God". It is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent God
Debate
Some critics argue that pantheism is little more than a redefinition of the word "God" to mean "existence", "life" or "reality". Many pantheists reply that even if this is so, such a shift in the way we think about these ideas can serve to create both a new and a potentially far more insightful conception of both existence and God."
This forum is for religious debate, it has a name that is very cute: My God can beat the Shit out of Your God, while both are attempts to describe one singular thing.
The other point people can debate on is the afterlife, something which no one has proof or knowledge about or for, what we know is now, and we should use it to the best of our advantage.
Understand: New and Old, attempts have been repeatedly made to describe one thing, there is nothing else we know but Reality, it was what we live in and are made of and are completely dependant on.
The Qur'an says it, Hinduism says it at its core, and Taoism said it too.
It has no name so call it what you want, it is one thing and it is undeniable.
There is no Diety or God but the Reality we exist within. There is no man sitting in the sky waiting for you, there is no man who is God, there is One Ultimate Reality, all that is within it is a part of it equally.
You are all manifestations within Ultimate Reality, this is obvious because here we are, debating what is obvious.
Nothing can threaten the True Religion, and it is one, and nothing can destroy it either because it is True. You can attempt to deny the undeniable, but it is futile because even to deny it you utilize it to do so and are completely dependant. The best you can do for yourself is to humble yourself to it, submit to it, attempt to become one with it, at peace with it, do right: Islam, Taoism, Hinduism, Bhuddism all suggest the same thing. Judaism and Christianity also attempt to describe the path of becoming at peace with Reality.
Do what you know is right, and good for you, good for others, you know it, I know it, we may do it differently. What is wrong is bad for us and others, what is right is good for us, and good for others. Use common sense.
Being human and living in Reality is an automatic religion, you breath, you walk, you talk, you fight, you write, you laugh you cry, you argue about one thing with different names.
All Polytheistic Religions from the past were originally an attempt to describe what is known, and what is unknown. To describe Reality which is one, they gave it aspects, which became known as spirits or Gods, which controlled each aspect, but are all part of the "Creator" or "King" or the "Master" God which is Reality, and all were manifestations of it.
The One Truth, Reality exists, internal or external, we are all here and manifested by it, dependant on it completely.
Originally posted by Beta69:
Sure thing.
Creationist side: Evolution is false science because we have deemed it so based on how we read a couple chapters in an old religious text.
Evolutionist side: Evolution is most likely correct because mountains of tested and retested evidence based on tried and true methods says so.
QED
K thanks. I really appreciate it.
What would happen if Creationists say Evolution was Created?
""If God Appeared to you"
That statement just makes me want to cry.
You expect some BEING to appear to you and perform magic tricks? Worship David Copperfield (Not Lance Burton cause he uses fake birds I went up on stage once and...)
The Real God has Appeared to you from the moment you opened your little baby eyes. God's magic trick is all around you, the manifestation of the entire universe and every single aspect of it, inside and out, your thoughts, the possibilities and all encompassed within Reality.
Do you think some being did that? Something that appears in a form and performs magic tricks is capable of being God? God is one, and not any single thing in the universe is God, but all are within, made of, part of, existing only by, and dependant on God, which is the ultimate Reality which we exist within.
Why call it God? Because thats the only thing worthy of submission, the strongest ultimate factor in your life, there is no Man or Being so why would you believe in such a thing or even consider for a moment that some THING can be God when God encompasses ALL Things, all THINGS dependant on God.
If it can "appear" in a singular form in reality, it is NOT God, but a part of God as much as a doorknob or a molecule or a thought.
How much more apparent do you want it? But you act deaf and blind and without senses when you have your senses, you can't see it? Can't you hear it? Won't you understand?
"No, that's not God" they say "God is not Reality it is just an idea people created to feel good" Really? Reality was created by human thought? If you stripped the entire universe and all that is within it, there would be nothing, nothing but Reality, which is what we exist within, it is in the image of nothing if you strip it of all that it is within, but it is not nothing, it is the Manifestor of Worlds.
Nothing can only do nothing, if there was ever pure nothing, so too would there now be absolute nothing. Nothing has no capacity to hold anything, have anything manifest, or basically do anything.
Is Reality Dead? Inanimate? Senseless? Can you not see how what is within it is in constant animation every moment, that if it was dead it would not exist and so too would nothing exist? It has no sense? Are you senseless? You're the proof against yourselves, it is the posessor of "Sense".
Every thought you can possibly think is possible because of it held within it, manifested by it, you utilize it and are dependant on it every moment of your life. But someone told you a man who was a baby is God? So you fight it, and rightly so, but then you're so stuck on the idea that you blind yourself to the Reality, to the Real God, the Original, and the Originator.
Its so easy and so obvious and so clear. There is no God but the God I am telling you about, and there is nothing greater than it, it is what you should submit to, the submission will bring inner peace.
Its easy to say there is no God when you've invented some idol to break. When you say it to me its like you're speaking something completely absurd, like saying "We exist in Nothing, and Nothing only Exists" A Lie. Prove it? You are the proof, I am the proof, Everything is the Proof.
There was no Being molding things like a man, nor is God in your image, but you are images within God.
Science and Religious Truth has NO CONFLICT save those who lie and make conflict. To deny what is Real to Defend a False Idol, Christianity has really made an error, and so to have the other religions eventually when at their core their message should be essentially be the same.
From the most ancient hunter gatherer religions and polytheistic religions the idea is one idea which becomes mutated by people. "There is Reality, It has Many Aspects, It is where we come from, All things are dependant on it but it is self sufficient" Then from the One True God does it slowly evolve, each aspect is named, then metaphorically described to help people understand in a humanistic way and soon a whole pantheon of Gods develop from the One, Hinduism still has this history of how its religion evolved and that its root is monotheistic and its God is Reality.
People did not Develop the original idea of God, it was an understanding of what is Real and True which later in explanation transformed into something very misleading and false.
God makes the rain fall, no the weather does, All in the same.
God makes the universe expand, no thats just an effect due to certain aspects of the universe, All in the same.
Exchange the word God for Reality as it should be, it is one word.
But how can God be Omnipotent?
om·nip·o·tent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-np-tnt)
adj.
Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful. See Usage Note at
Reality is. You are completely dependant on it, as is everything in this universe and all possible universes.
But how can God be omniscient?
om·nis·cient ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-nshnt)
adj.
Having total knowledge; knowing everything: an omniscient deity; the omniscient narrator.
And of Knowledge, All things are Made. Information, Mathematics, What Knows everything other than what Everything is within and made of?
This is God, You are the Witness, You are the Proof, You are the one that testifies."
Linear Mode
