Watchmaker

[Overman]

Someone used this on me today:

quote: 1. X is too (complex, orderly, adaptive, apparently purposeful, and/or beautiful) to have occurred randomly or accidentally.

2. Therefore, X must have been created by a (sentient, intelligent, wise, and/or purposeful) being.

3. God is that (sentient, intelligent, wise, and/or purposeful) being.

4. Therefore, God exists.

Can't natural selection and evolution explain that better than God?...

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by Overman:

Someone used this on me today:

Can't natural selection and evolution explain that better than God?...

and who says beings can make anything? All we do is utilize what we have available.

Who says Evolution was not a process originated by the supreme?

What made the "sentient being" that made us.

It's all too humanized:

I believe that God is not a "Being" in the sense that we or aliens are beings, but that God is where all this exists and occured within, that God is the infinite and vast plain of knowledge that has manifested all possibilities including the possibility of this reality and this universe and all the laws that are within it and all the possible things you can possibly think or do and more, that it is not an alien, or a spaghetti monster, but in the image of nothing, nothing but infinite knowledge an active, ever existing force, it is all there is and ever was.

[AngryFemme]

Read: The Blind Watchmaker, by Richard Dawkins.

[potentgirt]

Well, humanized or not, your belief is just ridiculous, Abrahim

[Beta69]

1) X is only too complex from our point of view. Unless we know everything we aren't smart enough to claim X is too complex. It's like playing God.

1000 years ago the idea of instantly beaming messages around the earth would have probably been thought to be so complex only God could do it, yet today it is considered basic.

2) Conjecture. The first statement specified "randomly or Accidentally" there is no reason we can't assume another possibility is a natural process. Snow flakes are complex and amazing looking, yet they form through a simple natural process.

3) Conjecture. No evidence of God, anymore than the left sock stealing fairies.

4) Conjecture.



Let's run their watchmaker claim through something most people accept as fact. Germs and viruses.

The year is 1AD

1) The process of getting sick is too complex, directed and purposeful for it to be naturally occurring. It doesn't follow a random process and there is no evidence a natural thing is causing it.

2) Therefore getting sick must be created by a supernatural sentient being that wants to make people ill.

3) Demons are supernatural sentient beings that want to make people ill.

4) Therefore demons exist and they cause illness.

[Daz]

The watchmaker argument is a poor, poor attempt at proving the existance of God through analogy - it fails.

[IanBoyd3]

The watchmaker analogy doesn't work because there is, in a sense, a 'designer,' but this designer is blind and is not 'intelligent' the way humans are.

It's logically flawed though. An assumption is wrong or something.

I dunno, my vape just did a great job and I'm high as balls. I'm eating greasy fish and it is so fucking good...

[cac0]

Since snowflakes are complex is there a snowflake god? It is stupid to say that snowflakes just poped into thin air!! There HAS to be a snowflake god!

[Deoz]

Hypocrisy at it's best.

[This message has been edited by Deoz (edited 07-10-2006).]