OT god vs. NT god???

[vehicular mansLAUGHTER]

i'm sure this has been done before but here we go anyways.

why was the god of the old testament vengeful, angry, jealous, and spiteful. he was not particularly fond of forgiveness either it appears. he even helps that one guy ( god i wish i could remember his name) commit genocide with a donkey's jawbone.

then we get to the new testament, and god is love. he will forgive at any time, even on your deathbed. he no longer smites you because you told a lie.

so my question is... if god is, and always has been, and there is no time for god... how can god change over time?

P.S. if it matters...i am struggling catholic.

[Iam]

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

i'm sure this has been done before but here we go anyways.

why was the god of the old testament vengeful, angry, jealous, and spiteful. he was not particularly fond of forgiveness either it appears. he even helps that one guy ( god i wish i could remember his name) commit genocide with a donkey's jawbone.

then we get to the new testament, and god is love. he will forgive at any time, even on your deathbed. he no longer smites you because you told a lie.

so my question is... if god is, and always has been, and there is no time for god... how can god change over time?

P.S. if it matters...i am struggling catholic.

Another question could be why would a perfect being ever change his mind? Or for that matter, why would a perfect being ever create something that does things he doesn't want them to do? Why would an omnipotent being ever feel the need to kill off most of the people he created because of what they were doing? If he hated that behavior so much and he is perfect and omnipotent, why would he create a being that does it?



The Christian God can't be logically justified. If you consider questioning, you will lose your faith. Just as Adam and Eve sought the fruit of knowledge in the garden. God punished them for wanting to know what the fuck was going on.

[UnknownVeritas]

Quite simply, the Bible is dealing with two separate deities. Do some research as to the origins of Biblical mythology.

[great_sage=heaven]

You need to read the essay proofs of god by Martin Gardner, it does a good job of dispelling any strange idea's organized religions has about god, and exploring the possibility of what god might be.

Find it.

[postdiluvium]

quote:Originally posted by vehicular mansLAUGHTER:

P.S. if it matters...i am struggling catholic.

I'm a Catholic. To tell you the truth, it's the fallacy of the Holy Trinity. Based on one line within the Gospel of John, while every other line in the Bible (besides Paul's letters and Epistles) say otherwise.

First you must realize that Jesus and God are two different entities. Then you must realize that only John said they were one and the same, and that Paul bases his teachings on that alone. You must also realize that Paul was one of the Pharisees that condemned Jesus' followers to their deaths (when he was called Saul) and even wrote that he had non canonical views about Jesus having never actually existed as a physical being.

Once you get passed the Holy Trinity doctrine, you can see that the God of the Old Testament is called Yahweh. That God is non-existant in the New Testament. That God, historically, was in fact a Jewish God, but a tribal fertility God. I'm not claiming that I know that is the true God that Christians, Jews, and Muslims follow, but I do know that Yahweh is no Jesus.

I'd actually recommend that you read the Quran about what it says about Jesus and His followers. The Quran actually portrays Jesus and his followers more accurately to the accounts of Josephus, Philo, and Pliny than Paul (he who basically wrote modern day church doctrine). Mainly because Islam was created on the same land that Jesus walked and followed by the same people that are ancestors to those who lived among Jesus during Jesus' time and because Paul simply didn't know Jesus.

To create a whole religion out of the land in which its messiah was born and raised is absurd. To create this religion on the teachings of one man who convicted the messiah's followers is even worse. I say read the Bible, and don't let others tell you what you are reading, but tell yourself what you are reading.

I'm still a Catholic because Catholics actually do accept that there are inconsistencies with the religion itself. Ever since the last Pope embraced science and evidence did the actual religion itself start to accept its inconsistencies. Its just that local catholic churches won't tell you that. For what reason, I have no idea.

[This message has been edited by postdiluvium (edited 07-10-2006).]

[VictimKing]

Old God was the real god, but because he was mean(really just cranky) a lot more people started going to Hell. Because of this, he had to fight in the war himself, appointing a pussy spokesman(aka Jesus) to speak for him. This also explains why Jesus died, but was then revived(God was too busy to keep him alive, then came 3 days 2 late and brought him back to life). Ever since then, Hell has been slowly closing in on Heaven's numbers. Just a few months ago, Hell finally overran Heaven, and God ran. Where, you ask? Into me, the Prophet Sam. How else would I know all of this?

[AerosmithRocks]

postdiluviDo you have Msn?

I am hoping it would be possible to speak with you outside of totse about chatholicism.

[Truth is all]

Hello dear friends,

First of all, God did not change. He was forgiving then as he is forgiving now. Yet back then He knew that people would not change and he knew that they would change his people as well. Since he knew the hardness of their hearts would not be broken, by their own choice, then he would have them die rather then them taint his own people. Grace is shown just as much in the Old testament as it is in the new. IT was all a foreshadow of Christs coming. The Judges, Leviticus and the priesthood, the set up of the temple, the temple rules, the tearing down and rebuilding of isreal, all things point to Christ.

postdiluvium,

You can not really claim to be catholic since your views are not catholic. The trinity is spoken of many times in the old testament, specifically in genesis and psalms, Genesis 1:26,"And let US make man in OUR image." Psalms when david says, the Lord said to my Lord, in the context of the root of Jesse, meaning Christ. There aer others that i wish i could tell you off the top of my head. God can not be inconsistent, if he was .... then how could he be God? O and God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are mentioned several times in the New testament, giving tribute to the trinity. As well as at Jesus baptism, when the hand of the father and the dove came down, again indicating the trinity. For there is only one God above all things. I also do not understand your pointing to the Koran? IT claims Christ as being a prophet, but not even dieing for our sins? If you believe that, you are not even a Christian, for Christians Christ is the messiah and savior of the world from sin, both true God and true man. Once you deny this, your claim to Christianity is lost as well.

[Abrahim]

quote:Originally posted by postdiluvium:

I'm a Catholic. To tell you the truth, it's the fallacy of the Holy Trinity. Based on one line within the Gospel of John, while every other line in the Bible (besides Paul's letters and Epistles) say otherwise.

First you must realize that Jesus and God are two different entities. Then you must realize that only John said they were one and the same, and that Paul bases his teachings on that alone. You must also realize that Paul was one of the Pharisees that condemned Jesus' followers to their deaths (when he was called Saul) and even wrote that he had non canonical views about Jesus having never actually existed as a physical being.

Once you get passed the Holy Trinity doctrine, you can see that the God of the Old Testament is called Yahweh. That God is non-existant in the New Testament. That God, historically, was in fact a Jewish God, but a tribal fertility God. I'm not claiming that I know that is the true God that Christians, Jews, and Muslims follow, but I do know that Yahweh is no Jesus.

I'd actually recommend that you read the Quran about what it says about Jesus and His followers. The Quran actually portrays Jesus and his followers more accurately to the accounts of Josephus, Philo, and Pliny than Paul (he who basically wrote modern day church doctrine). Mainly because Islam was created on the same land that Jesus walked and followed by the same people that are ancestors to those who lived among Jesus during Jesus' time and because Paul simply didn't know Jesus.

To create a whole religion out of the land in which its messiah was born and raised is absurd. To create this religion on the teachings of one man who convicted the messiah's followers is even worse. I say read the Bible, and don't let others tell you what you are reading, but tell yourself what you are reading.

I'm still a Catholic because Catholics actually do accept that there are inconsistencies with the religion itself. Ever since the last Pope embraced science and evidence did the actual religion itself start to accept its inconsistencies. Its just that local catholic churches won't tell you that. For what reason, I have no idea.

Don't stop at reading the Qur'an about Jesus, but about God too, in fact, become a Muslim.

[postdiluvium]

quote:Originally posted by VictimKing:

Old God was the real god, but because he was mean(really just cranky) a lot more people started going to Hell. Because of this, he had to fight in the war himself, appointing a pussy spokesman(aka Jesus) to speak for him. This also explains why Jesus died, but was then revived(God was too busy to keep him alive, then came 3 days 2 late and brought him back to life). Ever since then, Hell has been slowly closing in on Heaven's numbers. Just a few months ago, Hell finally overran Heaven, and God ran. Where, you ask? Into me, the Prophet Sam. How else would I know all of this?

Hell was never mentioned until the Gospels. During the OT there was no such thing as hell! There was only the Jewish Sheol which just meant grave. There was Gehanna outside of the gates of Jerusalem. It was a huge fiery pit for garbage. Old kings used to sacrafice their children there to their Gods. Hell didn't appear until the Jewish tribes came in contact with Greek Mythology. Probably during Babylonian captivity, is what I'm guessing. Even in the New Testament, the Saducees are the Jewish Sect that control the Temple and they believed in neither Heaven nor Hell nor angels. But the Pharisees, the newer Jewish sect who were strict on probably everything (But not isolationist like the Esenees) did believe in Hell.