what has any religion achieved? ever?

[stormshadowftb]

apart from duping billions of people into believing total lies and wild conjecture of idiots?

if anything religion has held back many achievements.

astronomy was supressed by the catholic cult

newton was ridiculed by idiotic christians

there are still people that believe the creationist myth over the fact of evolution

the ammount of times i hear: "but how does a fish become a monkey THERE ARE NO FISHMONKEYS SKELETONS!!!!" or some BS like that it makes me sick.

when are christians going to evolve a fucking brain?!

[shitty wok]

It's duped billions of people, that's an achievement in itself. Not an achievement for humanity though.

[Pilsu]

Originally Posted by stormshadowftb

the fact of evolution

It's not a "fact"

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Our church started teaching people to read and do basic math way back. Motives for that are another matter entirely but still, gotta give them credit for that. The rest of the leadership was content at collecting tax and giving nothing back in return

[vazilizaitsev89]

you should be fair.

that was just an attack on christianity. Why didn't you attack Judaism? or Islam? or Taoism? or any of the dozens of eastern religions???

[BrokeProphet]

Originally Posted by vazilizaitsev89

you should be fair.

that was just an attack on christianity. Why didn't you attack Judaism? or Islam? or Taoism? or any of the dozens of eastern religions???

Probably b/c he lives in a Christian nation like me. Has to watch sexually repressed cunts tell me what bad words I cant hear on TV and the like.

[Kazz]

I love pompous 7th grade atheists that make atheism look like a huge joke. Thanks for that, man.

Although I do agree religion has caused much more harm than good... it could be argued that it brought stabilization to regions that had a long history of killing each other. In a sense, religion brought an end to tribalism in Europe, the Middle East, and even Asia. Although the killing between these regions were greatly magnified (ie, Crusades)... for there to be any cultural, technological, scientific, etc improvement... you need stabilization. Look at the various tribes of Sub Saharan Africa. Tribalism holds these people back. Organized, widespread religion was a great unifying force in the civilized world.

It's served it's purpose. The problem is we've outgrown it.

[AngryFemme]

Originally Posted by Kazz

I love pompous 7th grade atheists that make atheism look like a huge joke.

They're kinda like mini-Michael Moore's - having decent and understandable points, but just dressing it up in so much unnecessary, frivolous bullshit that it becomes pulp-like and hard to digest.

[Mantikore]

I will try to be as unbiased and two sided as possible, though it will be difficult

Positive impacts
- Forms the basis of our morals. Morals separate us from animals. We dont fight to the death over something like a piece of chicken (although some still do. see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bmY2dHhGv0)

-organisations such as Anglicare are based on religions and are focused on helping the needy to improve the lives of the less fortunate

- its given people a sense of closure. sure, it may or may not be real, but that doesnt matter for the people who believe that its better to live in blissful ignorance, which is perfectly fine. this is especially true with things such as death

- there are religious figures who promote a positive message for all humantity of all religions and races, sometimes more so than people who are irreligious. For example, people like Hitler, Stalin and Mao, some of the worst criminals of our century, did not believe in any religion while people like the Dalai lama and Ghandi and even people like Martin Luther king jr (not Martin Luther)are some of the most respected heroes of humanity

negative
-religion in the past and also the present (though it is relatively reduced nowadays) has led to blind violence. some examples include the islamic expansion through arabia in the 7th century, the crusades, and human sacrifice by the aztecs.

-people have been exploited by religion (such as the paying of donations and indulgences to build st peters basilica in rome.) billions of people have been duped because of this.

- Religion has been used as a vehicle for politics due to its ablility for people to trust in it deeply. it annoys me when i see people yelling out "impeach *insert president's name*! hes killing thousands of innocent *insert middle eastern country*! hes a sinner and needs to go to hell!!"

-religions have resulted in a backwards movement in technology. this is evident in the prosecution of Gallileo, shunning of Darwin, as well as things like stem cell research today
----------
Finally, i would like to add that i dont follow a religion, but i do think there are merits to it.

But remember one thing. If youre going to disagree with religion, be sure to give a good bashing to religions in general, and not turn it into a christian flaming feast.

[Kazz]

For the sake of argument... and well... because I disagree with your statements, I will form a rebuttal here. I am, slightly intoxicated, so please bear with me as I try to convey the thoughts that are clear in my head, but not down on paper.

Originally Posted by Mantikore

I will try to be as unbiased and two sided as possible, though it will be difficult

Positive impacts
- Forms the basis of our morals. Morals separate us from animals. We dont fight to the death over something like a piece of chicken (although some still do. see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bmY2dHhGv0)

So by this logic, the atheist is an immoral creature and an animal? Morality is not something that exists only in the realm of religion. Don't get me wrong, by the definition of morality, the two are going to be closely linked in a person who highly values a deity... but the only statement about religion and morality that can held true, is the fact that religion sets up a system of ABSOLUTE morality... tossing all other, "lesser" moralities out the window. Rather than leaving room for tolerance, placing a moral code HIGHER than life and divine disallows various other moral codes... which i believe should be up to the individual to determine. With that said, religion creates a contagious morality that becomes a very powerful lobbying tool of control, used by a select few in say, the Vatican. And what happens if one comes along and disagrees with this set morality? If somebody comes along and doesn't value the values set stone by Thou Shalt? He is labled a heretic, and for the majority of modern human history, he is burned at the stake. Even today, these people are doomed in the religion mind to burn in hell. This allows ZERO moral tolerance.

Modern Abrahamic religions, were by no means the first to create morality either. I know this is not what you're saying... but the Greeks and Romans had a moral system of their own, (which you could argue, parts of WERE loosely tied into religious ideas)... but the point I'm making is that the Greeks and Romans got by just fine. They had a system of their own, a belief structure and a value system of their own... and in a sense, I would consider these people to be less "animals" than the modern religion that plagues the world.

And with that in mind, don't get your cause and effect confused here. Morality is not the effect of religion, but rather the other way around. For a religion to exist, there has to be a morality that allows this existence. People create religions to fit the morality they already stand upon. For example, once again we'll look at the Abrahamic religions... specifically to roots of Christianity. In ancient Rome we had a VAST majority of slaves and conquered peoples... in a system where the Roman morality valued nobility, strength, etc. This obviously was not going to sit well with such a large population of slaves and people who suffered every day of their lives. So the marketing genius of the millennium comes by and tells these people that there is a larger than life meaning for their suffering, and that they will be eternally rewarded for their suffering in the kingdom of heaven. This life doesn't matter at all, it is merely a stage of hardship to be endured and faithful through, and the real meaning is found post death in the life eternal. Jesus Christ blesses the meek, and the meek, naturally flock to this.

Christianity is a stoic and weak philosophy, directed towards the weak, moral outcasts of the time. These people already were meek. These people already barely valued life. Whether they knew it or not, these people already had a moral system of their own. Christianity just came along and gave them an umbrella to stand under... and a name to call themselves.

I know this is just one example... but I think this can be traced to any modern religion. The morality is always going to precede the religion.

-organisations such as Anglicare are based on religions and are focused on helping the needy to improve the lives of the less fortunate

Yes, and I do not deny that there ARE in fact good hearted Christians out there... who have done more to help the world than I have, and probly more than I ever will. However even the majority of THESE people are doing it for all the wrong reasons. And on top of that... there are HORRIBLE accounts of these aid groups in Africa and South America deliberately not helping those who refuse to follow their faith. I remember reading an article where children in Africa were starving to death, because the nuns there would not feed them until they attended mass... while at the same time the children's mothers would not allow them to attend mass. Why couldn't they just have fed all of the children? Why did some have to starve to DEATH? Philanthropy loses its credibility with occasions like this.

- its given people a sense of closure. sure, it may or may not be real, but that doesnt matter for the people who believe that its better to live in blissful ignorance, which is perfectly fine. this is especially true with things such as death

This I cannot argue... but I have to admit it is something that makes me kind of sick to my stomach.

- there are religious figures who promote a positive message for all humantity of all religions and races, sometimes more so than people who are irreligious. For example, people like Hitler, Stalin and Mao, some of the worst criminals of our century, did not believe in any religion while people like the Dalai lama and Ghandi and even people like Martin Luther king jr (not Martin Luther)are some of the most respected heroes of humanity

I do agree with your first sentence. I find those people rare, but I like those people... even if once again, its for the wrong reasons. However to say people lie Hitler and Stalin and Mao are all "evil" because they are not religious is foolish. There have been hundreds of religious people who have committed horrible crimes against humanity... I'd say far more than these bad atheists. At the same time you cannot make the argument that there haven't been many good atheists... because the truth is there haven't been a whole lot of atheists given the chance to be "good". Religion has held humanity with an iron fist for the last two thousand years... and when anybody who steps out of line is punished for it... when a life without God is inconceivable... atheists aren't going to be left a whole lot of lime light.

If history's greatest individuals were alive today... I feel that they would have very different ideas on faith.

negative
-religion in the past and also the present (though it is relatively reduced nowadays) has led to blind violence. some examples include the islamic expansion through arabia in the 7th century, the crusades, and human sacrifice by the aztecs.

You really believe it's reduced these days? I disagree. Just because we don't march to Damascus with millions of swords does not make religious conflict/violence any less prevalent. Whether its a suicide bombing in Jerusalem, ethnic cleansing in Darfur, flying planes into buildings, etc... I would say today things aren't exactly reduced.


Just my ten cents.

[Crack Man]

Originally Posted by Pilsu

It's not a "fact"