Atheists, I suggest to you this:

[23]

When trying to convince others that atheism is superior to religion, don't try to convince them that God is not real.

Instead, convince them that religion itself, in all forms, is absurd.

Convince them the basic fact of religion: It doesn't evolve with the times.

Our knowledge of the world and its various properties is continually growing and being revised. Religion hasn't changed in thousands of years.

If you could resurrect a man from the 14th century, he would be ignorant beyond all belief. He would think that sicknesses are caused by demons, and that blood-letting is a great cure for many diseases. BUT, he would be as well versed in religious matters, if not more so, than we are today (Harris, The End of Faith)

Why should we live in ignorance? Why do people still believe the things that they did 1000 years ago?

I think that it is much more important when persuading people to favor atheism to point out this fact.

What do you think?

[AngryFemme]

Originally Posted by 23

What do you think?

I think (Harris, The End of Faith) is a damned good read.

[nshanin]

I think it works better if you don't mention atheism at all; most people are taken aback by the thought of living without a god, perhaps just agnosticism or some other pseudo-religion.

[23]

Originally Posted by AngryFemme

I think (Harris, The End of Faith) is a damned good read.

Yeah, I just started today. Very good read so far.

[BrokeProphet]

You might be correct. It is far easier to say the organization of religion or the religion itself is wrong. That is the first step in healing the mental illness that is theism.

But you are also dealing with the most virulent mind virus known to man. In this day and age I believe you have to shout to be heard over all the noise. I find it hilarious to make fun of people who KNOW there is a god. Who blindly follow what they are told to.

I believe at this point ridiculing the religious nuts in this country is far more effective than trying to argue with someone whose final excuse has to be and will always be "God did it". It is more effective to have comedians and culture poke fun at the INSANITY that is religion. The young generation will not desire to be ridiculed by the pop culture in this country.

Maybe a healthy mix of both convincing the sick mind that the organization is bad and ridiculing the die hard old earth nutbags with a fervor. I think a case by case assessment would be prudent. Some cases (rofflle) are beyond help at this point.

[dummy]

I think you're confusing theism with religion. They're different.

Religion is rituals associated with God's name. Theism is belief in God(s).

Try this instead: tell them that mindless rituals are wrong. A belief in God doesn't have to limit your search for greater knowledge.

Best of all: raise all children as agnostic. Let them come to their own conclusions.

[BrokeProphet]

The problem with what you suggest is eventually someone will come along with more divine knowledge in the god we (as theists) believe in. This person will let us all know the proper rituals and ways to communicate with this god.

If you dont agree with this man and you are of a minority opinion.....run. Run fast, run hard.

This is the problem with any theistic belief structures. Eventually Jim Jones comes along and the next thing you know you are pouring posion down your infant son's throat.

Basically what I am saying is you cannot believe in god and not eventually have a religion capitialize on it. Sorry. Just not gonna happen.

[anti gravity]

Originally Posted by 23

When trying to convince others that atheism is superior to religion, don't try to convince them that God is not real.

Instead, convince them that religion itself, in all forms, is absurd.

Convince them the basic fact of religion: It doesn't evolve with the times.

Our knowledge of the world and its various properties is continually growing and being revised. Religion hasn't changed in thousands of years.

If you could resurrect a man from the 14th century, he would be ignorant beyond all belief. He would think that sicknesses are caused by demons, and that blood-letting is a great cure for many diseases. BUT, he would be as well versed in religious matters, if not more so, than we are today (Harris, The End of Faith)

Why should we live in ignorance? Why do people still believe the things that they did 1000 years ago?

I think that it is much more important when persuading people to favor atheism to point out this fact.

What do you think?

You know I've been an atheist for many years (former Catholic) and I've come to the realization that trying to convince people to become atheists is a futile and misguided task. I'll explain why, and what we should be doing instead.

First of all, what exactly is atheism? Does the term "atheist" imply that a given individual follows any particular set of beliefs or morals, or is it merely and indicator of what ideas the individual rejects? Atheism is a negative description of one's beliefs, in the fact that it really doesn't tell anybody anything about my worldview except that I can't be accurately grouped together with theists.

Now here's where the problem with trying to win converts to atheism comes in; we can tell them that they're wrong as long and as loudly as we wish, but they're still not going to agree with you until you offer an alternative to their beliefs. If we wish for atheism to become widespread and accepted we need to proclaim the positive qualities of rationality, skepticism and free thinking rather than just bemoan the close mindedness and false logic of religion and hope that convinces people that we must be right by default. Anti anything movements will inherently fail, but I see no reason why atheism must remain merely an anti religion movement. For that reason I'm careful to reframe my arguments to be pro rational skepticism rather than anti ignorant faith.

I am pro-rational skepticism, not anti-faith.
I am pro-life, not anti-afterlife.
I am pro-free thought, not anti-conformity.
I am pro-atheism, not anti-religion.

Let's go out and try to show everyone that it is possible to be a well-adjusted, moral person without needing to believe in a god. Let's convince them to join us as skeptics rather than trying to get them to leave their religions as atheists. They'll never be able to accept the negative side of their coin unless we show them the positive side of ours.

[dummy]

Originally Posted by BrokeProphet

The problem with what you suggest is eventually someone will come along with more divine knowledge in the god we (as theists) believe in. This person will let us all know the proper rituals and ways to communicate with this god.

If you dont agree with this man and you are of a minority opinion.....run. Run fast, run hard.

This is the problem with any theistic belief structures. Eventually Jim Jones comes along and the next thing you know you are pouring posion down your infant son's throat.

Basically what I am saying is you cannot believe in god and not eventually have a religion capitialize on it. Sorry. Just not gonna happen.

Then it's the people to blame for their stupidity. My God doesn't tell me to be a mindless idiot.

It's onto every religious human to pick apart at their faith. They should take time and think 'hmm... does does not cutting my hair or mutilating my son's/daughter's genitals really bring me any closer to the greater understanding. What is a greater sign of piety, a full beard on me and a veil on my wife's face, or me giving what I can to those less fortunate? Is bowing my head infront of a statue any good if my intentions aren't pure?" If God created such a fine tuned world, with laws that can't be changed would he want me to do something illogical."

A person's actions doesn't negate my belief.

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
--- Buddha

17:36 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for. --- Quran

Cheers.

[bandana bandit]

the problem i have with religion is that most of the time it is not chosen. it is forced on people starting at a young age, so they dont really form thier own opinion about it.