This Forum reminds me of a story..

[HellzShellz]

MGCBTSOYG..

I'm obviously not about to type that out.
1Kings 18:21-39
Elijah, says to this people, "How long will you waver, if the LORD is God follow Him, if Baal, follow him." He basically said, MAKE A DECISION AND QUIT TRYING TO SAY THIS AND THEN DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU SAY. MAKE A DECISION AND A COMMITMENT WITH YOUR LIFE. THERE'S ONE GOD, NOW LET'S FIND OUT WHO'S GOD IS GOD. "

They build an altar, with a sacrifice, for their 'god' and pray for their god to consume the sacrifice. It didn't work. They begin to cut themselves, BLEEDING for a belief that was a lie.

Elijah said, "Come on." He repaired the old altar of the Lord that had been torn down by Jezebel. Had the pail filled with water... LOGIC SAYS water puts fire out. His faith said, "This fire's going to be so consuming it'll consume every last drop of water." The sacrifice was placed upon the altar, and He said, "Lord, show them you are God." (I'm paraphrasing.) The sacrifice was consumed, and they worshipped the Lord, who is God.

Where am I going with this for a topic? What or who do you worship? What do you devote your affection and emotion to? Because what you do, is what you worship. That's where your heart is. Next question.. What has your idol, your god, done for you? Compel you to bleed and not even respond? Perhaps I'm being too philosophical here. Have you poured your emotions into your god, and your life without recieveing anything, not even healing for your wounds?

Yeah, I want you to think and examine your life. Christian or not. You may say your a christian, yet the same quesitons are directed at you. I've seen so many 'christians' and MOST of them acted NOTHING like Christ. In fact, they looked alot like hypocrites who clung to a lie that would enable them to live like hell and 'make heaven' without consequences of their actions. Live like the world, reach the world, so they can keep living like they are but with the hope of death bringing them the solace they so desire. COME ON. This world doesn't need the Christ you're trying to market if they can do the same thing and get the same result without having a hope for your lies. These people already desire death, and they already have vision. To make an impact, and leave a legacy. I can keep going but I'll stop with that.

[AngryFemme]

Shellz -

Would your God love you any less if you didn't recruit for him?

[BrokeProphet]

"I like your Christ, but I do not like your Christians."

-Ghandi

Look in other religious cannons. You will find that they too have parables and stories that PROVE jehovah is a false god. What you call God, other EQUALLY deluded people call the Matrix.

It is easy to prove your religion with the very book that SPAWNED your religion. L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith are PRIME examples of how easy it is to fool the weak minded emotionally crippled people of the world with a work of fiction. In the case of Mr. Hubbard this is a RECENT work of fiction that is now a bonafide religion.

Is it really so hard for you to imaginge an L. Ron Hubbard type individual creating the Bible? Is it hard or just scary to accept the reality of the world. We are alone. We die and rot. Those are the only facts we have. Your fantasy IS more comforting I will contend.

[HellzShellz]

Originally Posted by AngryFemme

Shellz -

Would your God love you any less if you didn't recruit for him?

Answer to your question. No. He wouldn't. But He'd hold me accountable. If My God's love for me drove Him to a cross and crucifixion, and He shed's that same LOVE abroad in my heart the moment I'm born-again. What should His love for the would in a human, like He was, compel us to do for our fellow-man?

If I had a friend, that I loved and cherrish, and I knew something that would save them from a tragic eternity, and I didn't tell them what I knew, would you not say I help aid them in their path to destruction? I didn't shoot the gun, but I didn't stop them from firing either.

For Broke prophet. First of all, I have to clearly state you're not a prophet. Secondly, what sets Christianity apart from every other religion, I have a resurrected saviour, that didn't ask me from something He wasn't willing to FIRST give. I love Him, because HE FIRST loved me. He never asked me to forgive without a willingness to forgive. He never asked me to go without having gone first. He never asked me to endure something He didn't endure first for me. I have a saviour that know my struggles, because He faced them too. His divinity overcome his humanity, but humanity without HIS DIVINITY is bound to fail in an unsuccessful attempt to succeed. I could go further with everything you said, and pick it apart line upon line, in rebuttal to your stance. For what reason? Come on. For selfishness? People who have to be right, only care about other's responses to who they are and where they stand. People who have to be right, aren't assured of what they believe. I know because I use to be that person. Big mouth, humming bird butt. Pride will drive a quick response from a person, and they don't come at you like they care, they come at you like they're right and they want you to see how right they are.

I'm not right, in fact if you look into my life you'll discover MANY, SEVERAL flaws. I don't even try to conceal them anymore. They're there and even though it's as if an arrow in my heart, I have to live with it, and rely on his provision to make the Way even for a person like me. He's right though. When I hear His Word come forth, when I read His Word and He shows me how wrong I've been because He loves me and wants expose sin for what it is so I'll not be overcome by it, so I can run this race, I want to argue with Him. I want to reason with Him, but He stands. I can either shun His Word or measure up. I'm going to measure up, because Christ's in me, not quit. Let's thank God Christ didn't quit.

[BrokeProphet]

Originally Posted by HellzShellz

For Broke prophet. First of all, I have to clearly state you're not a prophet. Secondly, what sets Christianity apart from every other religion, I have a resurrected saviour, that didn't ask me from something He wasn't willing to FIRST give. I love Him, because HE FIRST loved me.

Two hands working produce more than ten thousand hands in prayer

Martyrdom, Living sacrifice or sacrifices that live on, Love, and resurrection are NOTHING new in mythology. These concepts are not new and stink of a myriad of religions PREDATING your christ. The ancient Egyptian religion Chrisitianity borrowed from is SO MUCH more interesting. The original is better than your religion's OBVIOUS plagerism.

I KNOW this, YOU refuse to see it, and cannot KNOW it. Your meme makes you weak in, at the very least, this respect. So throw up your mental brick wall and shy from all contrary evidence as you MUST.

Your faith makes you weak.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day; Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime; Give a man religion, he will starve while praying for a fish.

[Hare_Geist]

You're as REPELLENT as you are OBNOXIOUS, HellzShellz.

[AngryFemme]

Originally Posted by HellzShellz

If I had a friend, that I loved and cherrish, and I knew something that would save them from a tragic eternity, and I didn't tell them what I knew, would you not say I help aid them in their path to destruction? I didn't shoot the gun, but I didn't stop them from firing either.

Can you actually imagine your loved ones (or anyone else for that matter) being tortured in the fiery pits of hell for all eternity? How could you praise an entity that would inflict that kind of suffering on one of your own kind, just for not worshipping him? Suppose everything else about this friend was morally upstanding, sans the belief, praise and submission.

[HellzShellz]

Originally Posted by AngryFemme

Can you actually imagine your loved ones (or anyone else for that matter) being tortured in the fiery pits of hell for all eternity? How could you praise an entity that would inflict that kind of suffering on one of your own kind, just for not worshipping him? Suppose everything else about this friend was morally upstanding, sans the belief, praise and submission.

That's exactly it, Femme. That's exactly it. I would beg God to send me to hell for your punishment and you be with Him. I would want to take your place. This is my heart, and now I say this with tears forming in my eyes. I've thought about this a million times. My loved ones, in hell, and me knowing they're not there with me with God... but that's exactly what God did in Christ. His heart pains for you and others just like His love pains in me for a longing for your solace and fellowship with Him. Sin has a price. That price was paid for.

I've faced this same question before, from a co-worker. He was from Iran. Muslim. He said, "Shelly, if I could just get your to see, that we're all one people, and there's one God it would be great. The problem I have with you as a christian is you think I'm going to hell." I cried and had to run to the bathroom to stop. I said, "Sean, if you could get to heaven based on your own righteousness and good deeds, there isn't a doubt in my mind you'd be there, but you can't, because your personal sins disqualify you to such a place. Which is why Jesus paid the price of our sin so we wouldn't have to and we could take on His righteousness in our approach to God, because sin can not stand before a holy God."

He didn't become a convert. He acknowledges the fact Jesus exists, but He doesn't follow the faith, and calls Christ a prophet. This guy is a great guy. So loving, and soft spoken, passionate and caring, but marked with imperfection like the rest of humanity. I carry Him in my heart. I carry you in my heart. I carry Julie in my heart, because God can't stop longing for a relationship with any of you, but He is a gentlemen, and will never force us to love Him when we don't want to.


"BrokeProphet"- I was an atheist at one point, and at one time I would have agreed with everything you said. I'm convinced though. God's proven Himself to me time and time again, even when I've messed up. I don't avoid what you call "reality" I just see that the things that are seen are effected by the things that aren't seen. You can't see the wind, but you can see it's effects. You can't see the seeds under the ground when you've sown crop, but you can see it when it surfaces. You can't even be certain that it's growing until it has surfaced. That requires faith. To believe that something you can't see will produce what you can see.

Broke, I'm weak because of my faith? Quite opposite. You're weak! Why don't YOU try living the life I'm living? It requires more to BELIEVE than to NOT believe.

[AngryFemme]

Originally Posted by HellzShellz

That's exactly it, Femme. That's exactly it. I would beg God to send me to hell for your punishment and you be with Him. I would want to take your place.

Tell me, Shellz - what exactly am I getting punished for, again? Imperfection as a human being?

[truckfixr]

Originally Posted by HellzShellz

That's exactly it, Femme. That's exactly it. I would beg God to send me to hell for your punishment and you be with Him. I would want to take your place. This is my heart, and now I say this with tears forming in my eyes. I've thought about this a million times. My loved ones, in hell, and me knowing they're not there with me with God... but that's exactly what God did in Christ. His heart pains for you and others just like His love pains in me for a longing for your solace and fellowship with Him. Sin has a price. That price was paid for.

Somehow you've missed the main point of AF's question.

AngryFemme askes:

How could you praise an entity that would inflict that kind of suffering on one of your own kind, just for not worshipping him?

Allow me to reword her question slightly:

How could you praise an entity that would eternally torture those who He created, in a particularly nasty place named Hell (also created by Him solely for the purpose of doing so), simply for not worshipping Him? On top of that, He requires that you must believe in Him through faith because He refuses to reveal Himself in any physical way (even though such a physical revelation would surely result in potentially millions, perhaps billions of His creations worshipping Him).

Why do you believe that such a being is worthy of adoration and worship?