No one knows for sure whats up.So be AGNOSTIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TigerJK]

quote:Originally posted by AmericanJap89:

So all these people were maid to be christian and their children were maid to be christian and their children were maid to be christian but somewhere along the way they start wanting christianity so from then on millions were dedicated christians.Then came the inquisitions and more people were maid to be christians.

How about their maids?

Christianity does not have a monopoly on the word 'god'

[Nyk]

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

Perhaps it's a bit arrogant to claim that you know the score, but it feels good, it can do good as long as you try to inspire rather then force or be condescending, and it's for damn sure better then wishy-washy "I'll never know so I'll never try" agnostic attitude.

Just a bit arrogant?

And what's so wishy-washy about forming an opinion and sticking with it?

If I were to come across anything convincing enough to make me believe/disbelieve in a god, then I would do so. Since I haven't, I won't. What's so unreasonable about that?

[Beany]

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

Perhaps it's a bit arrogant to claim that you know the score, but it feels good, it can do good as long as you try to inspire rather then force or be condescending, and it's for damn sure better then wishy-washy "I'll never know so I'll never try" agnostic attitude.

I totally agree.

I sometimes wonder if im being arrogant for thinking I have life sussed.

But i truely wanna help people to understand what i know.

People sometimes say 'How do you know if you are right', well what I say to that is 'you know when you know'.



[This message has been edited by Beany (edited 05-19-2003).]

[UrbnTbone]

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

You know how many times the secret of the universe has been conclusively solved on shrooms, only to be forgotten when the effect wear off ?

I got the definite answer to that: shrooms are the secret of the universe

[AmericanJap89]

Who says you can only worship one god,other than the christian/jewish/islamic god,I walk around with a wheel of life,a pentagram,a cross,a star of david,and a shibodune necklaces.

I dont like sticking to one god.I believe theres soemthing higher than us up there,but the question is WHAT!!!

"He touched the dead girls body and she rose up as riseing from a sleep."So what...Is jesus christ E.T. now.

I dont put any faith down on any religion but I find christianity unlikely and hypocritical.Ive heard all the storys Ive read the whole bible and to be honest the satanic bible makes a shit load more sense than that damned thing."If someone slaps you turn the other cheek."BULLSHIT!!!!If someone slaps me Ima beat the everliving shit out of them.

"Moses held up his staff and the water split into two."Do I really have to say anything.

[This message has been edited by AmericanJap89 (edited 05-20-2003).]

[Dark_Magneto]

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

The fact that there is no proof of the non-existance of God, is reason enough to be a theist. There's no proof of the infinity of the universe, but people generally believe in it. If you want to make me, not believe in God, it's your job to prove his non-existence. If you don't do that, then there's no reason not to believe in him.

ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE

1) Ignorance runs rampant.

2) Therefore, God exists.

quote:

If you ask a theist to prove the existence of God, the burden of proof is on him.

Yes.

quote:

If you ask an atheist to prove the non-existence of God, the burden of proof is on him.

Yes. But since it is impossible to prove a negative, like the nonexistence of something I arbitrarily make up (which doesn't exist, yet can't be shown not to) they'll never be able to do it.

There is this interesting thing I am about to reveal called the Leibniz Principle of Sufficient Reason which states that nothing should be considered real or true or existing unless there is valid corroborative evidence to indicate so and not otherwise.

It stops having to maintain some notion that space pixies might exist because they can't be disproven and other psychodramas rather effectively.

With that in mind, what is the criteria for falsification to the proposition that God exists? In other words, if God didn't exist, how couls one show that.

Well formulated, objective statements about reality have a basis for falsification.

"If you could show _____, that would be evidence against god's existence".

If you can't fill in that blank with some criteria, then the belief that god exists seems to be without merit since no matter what submitted, you would still believe in god anyway.

So god could, in fact, not exist, and you wouldn't even know it. Since the claim "god exists" is not centered around anything concrete, testable, verifiable, tangible, "real", etc. the claim is baseless and without foundation.



[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 05-21-2003).]

[Rust]

"ARGUMENT FROM IGNORANCE

1) Ignorance runs rampant.

2) Therefore, God exists."



First of all I want to make it clear that, that's not my point of view, I just took what Inebriateddonkey said, filled in the blanks, to show that an argument can be constructed against him, by using his own words.



"But since it is impossible to prove a negative, like the non-existence of something I arbitrarily make up (which doesn't exist, yet can't be shown not to) they'll never be able to do it."

If that word choice is too negative for you, use this one:

Disprove the existence of God.

Before you say that you can prove it with

"The Principle of Sufficient Reason", take in consideration that Leibniz himself believed in God.

"According to Leibniz, the Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR) tells us that there is a sufficient reason why something is so and not otherwise. Reasons can be sought for any contingent event in previous states of the world, but the reason for the existence of the whole chain of events, of the world itself, can only be found in something that exists outside the world, in something whose essence contains existence, which is God."

[Dark_Magneto]

quote:Originally posted by Rust:



If that word choice is too negative for you, use this one:



Disprove the existence of God.

You can't disprove something that had no proof to begin with. There is no proof to dispell.

First we have to determine that a god exists, which has yet to be done, then we have to determine which god it is and define it.

quote:

Reasons can be sought for any contingent event in previous states of the world, but the reason for the existence of the whole chain of events, of the world itself, can only be found in something that exists outside the world, in something whose essence contains existence,

This statement is completely speculative and assertive. First of all, what is meant by "reason" for existence and why can it only be found in something that exists outside the world?

quote:

which is God.

Which begs the question with a vague undefined reference to a theoretical godforce and fails to answer anything at all.





[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 05-21-2003).]

[UrbnTbone]

quote:Originally posted by AmericanJap89:

Who says you can only worship one god,other than the christian/jewish/islamic god,I walk around with a wheel of life,a pentagram,a cross,a star of david,and a shibodune necklaces.

Right on.

quote:

I dont like sticking to one god.I believe theres soemthing higher than us up there,but the question is WHAT!!!

I also believe there is, and every real tradition has some clue of it, but not necessarily all of it. So every human should design their own religion according to the best patchwork suiting their soul root.

quote:

"If someone slaps you turn the other cheek."BULLSHIT!!!!If someone slaps me Ima beat the everliving shit out of them.

Granted! But maybe for an individual giving the other cheek is the right path. If they had an evil karma to atone for or some other shit. But not me!

quote:

"Moses held up his staff and the water split into two."Do I really have to say anything.

No, but you could learn about the 72 names which were engraved on his staff, and are still considered 3000+ years later, as a major tool by various schools of metaphysics.

[Rust]

"You can't disprove something that had no proof to begin with. There is no proof to dispell."

Ok try this:

God doesn't exist.

Prove it or disprove it.

Same shit.

"This statement is completely speculative and assertive. First of all, what is meant by "reason" for existence and why can it only be found in something that exists outside the world?"

First of all, you quote Leibniz, yet you dont agree with him? The quote that I posted (it was a quote, not something I said) talks about "On the Ultimate Origination of Things" Leibniz's essay on his beliefs. He believes in God.

The very same man you quote on the Principle of Sufficient Reason.